With thunderlord's decree being so popular on next to every champion, I believe most of the reason is because it can also proc with just auto attacks, which is likely why it is so popular of a pick.... Prehaps with taking the auto attacks part off, it might help put a bit more definition into the thunderlord's as something to use if you can hit 3 abilities? Any thoughts or ideas about this?
Maximum Morde2 votesIt's popular cause it's the only generalist option in the cunning tree. Stormraider and Windseeker are both super niche.
Sona Ping1 votesThis.
The reason for the popularity Thunderlord's had is not only that it is the most generalist option in the Cunning Tree, but it is also the most generally effective of all the Tier 3 Keystones. A mastery like Bond of Stone maybe better a choice for certain champions, but how Thunderlord's Decree works means it works on everyone.
EndlessSorcerer2 votesFor a second I thought this was an old post from pre-season which had been necroed...
Most of the keystone masteries are seeing a lot of use at the moment and there isn't really a single dominating option.
Thunderlord's Decree is simply a reliable option and the only offensive keystone within the cunning tree (which is commonly taken by burst-oriented champions).
JustMonika132 votesExcept there's Twisted Fate with only two damaging abilities. What are we going to do about them now that he and other's can't proc it?
Auto attacks are part of combos, that's why autos proc it.
Nameless Voice1 votesThe idea of Thunderlord's is to reward you for making a three-part combo attack in a short amount of time. Weaving an autoattack into your combo to proc Thunderlord's is one of the more interesting things about it and requires some (rather small) amount of skill to pull off.
A bigger problem that I have with Thunderlord's is that some attacks can proc more than one stack, which I feel is completely against the concept of the mastery. Specifically, I'm talking about things like Lux's passive (which really shouldn't give two procs), and DoTs like Morgana's Tormented Soil and Karma's Focused Resolve.
I'd much rather see Thunderlord's changed to a true "three-attack" mastery, where it needs to be triggered by three separate attacks or abilities.
Silly Neeko1 votesThe way i see it, there is many different things you can do with it, because.... Although I am not 100% sure it does, ludins echo will proc the thunderlords yes? it is damage because of an ability, because an ability is needed to be cast for the item to work, and so i believe it is set to proc the thunderlords..... but anyways, twisted fate doesnt need to be able to proc thunderlords in all honesty, if done right you could proc lichbane, thunderlords, ludins echo, his Pick a card, and his Stacked deck, all in one auto attack.... that is a rediculous amount of damage even without the thunderlord's proc and with next to minimal effort.
As to the others being super niche, yes that is true, it really is super niche, but taking out the thunderlord's auto attack wouldnt make it any less (for the most part) generic, because most champions who do not have 3 damaging abilities, either shield/heal, or they do enough burst damage that they could make use of stormraider's surge, there is very few champions that could not be classified into that, that i can think of at least.
As to it being the only offensive keystone in the tree, stormraiders could be in theory considered offencive, but you do know that Cunning tree is made to be more for utility? you can do 12 points into it and easily get almost as much out of it still. Along with that, but most burst champions have 3 damaging abilities, or else they do not burst quite as well as others.
I do agree with you very much Nameless Voice, the damage over time and auto attacks i feel could refresh the time it would take to proc the thunderlords, kinda like with velkoz's passive, just much shorter timeframe, but adding an additional stack per each tick of damage over time is kinda excessive.... same with auto attacks in my opinion as well, it will add a little more skill without it being completely nerfed.... just takes a bit more commitment to do.
ModThe Djinn1 votes{quoted}Any thoughts or ideas about this?
This is a MUCH larger nerf than it appears, because it forces characters to invest in and HIT all of their basic spells to proc the combo. Miss a single spell? No Thunderlords. Want some harass from Thunderlords? Better have the mana to spam three abilities out.
It reduces it from a harass you have to invest slightly in and makes it a burst-damage only tool that you have to invest mana into a full combo to see any use out of. I'm not sure that's desirable at all.
Silly Neeko1 votesThe point exactly ping.
And Djinn, that is about the same as almost EVERY combo champion. For example kennen, he needs 3 hits to get the stun. Fairly easy right? Depends on if you can hit a shuriken, or if you want to risk rushing at them for the proc that way. Brand you set them on fire with your conflagration(? i think is his 3rd basic ability), hit them with your fireball so you can stun them, and then fire pillar them for massive damage. You miss your fireball, no stun, which likely means you will miss the fire pillar.
The point of taking out the auto attacks is it works with those that are ALREADY doing the combos to do the damage.... if you are using mana just to proc your thunderlords...... you are using the thunderlords in the wrong way in every single circumstance. Thunderlord's is not used to be your ONLY damage, it is used to be a help for the burst champions.... who by the way, do not only have basic abilities, but also ultimate abilities, Zed comes to mind as one that would proc it best after 6, but even if the auto attacks were taken out, if he hit the enemy with his shuriken from him and his shadow, and hit his e, he would proc it just fine.
Ping pointed out the exact flaw in how the thunderlords sits at the moment, which is that it can be used for EVERY champion currently, some better than others. If you feel that all the other keystones are being used equally, it really depends on where it is played. I hardly ever see stormraider's surge used, but easily can be in a game with 9 thunderlord's decree keystones. I hardly ever use it because i hardly ever play burst champions and currently hate thunderlord's and how its used currently so i avoid using it, but in case people try getting the idea I want it "nerfed so hard" out of hate, i made this suggestion because i feel it brings its identity as a burst help into focus.
While i do see your opinion of how it isnt desirable if you have to land a full combo to make any use out of it Djinn, you should also look at how little you actually have to invest to proc the thunderlords currently. It has no identity as a keystone other than "get that if i plan on doing damage" and if you are going to combo, it would still give that extra damage you are normally seeing...... Given that you hit your abilities of course.