Mordekaiser and the AP Juggernaut Problem

Mahavishnu73·7/13/2017, 8:29:12 PM·2 votes·1,516 views

Juggernauts are defined by high base damages, relatively high overall damage, good health scaling, limited mobility, and high value on damage through melee range attacking (except Urgot now). The core item for AD juggernauts such as Darius , Garen , Illaoi , etc is item 3071. It hits all points listed above, not to mention what a great first buy item 3044 is.

  1. armor shred to take advantage of good base damage
  2. AD to amp AD (often total AD) scaling abilities
  3. Health for durability and to take advantage of health scaling kits
  4. MS on dealing PHYSICAL damage to make up for limited natural mobility to help stay in melee range

The other Juggernauty items are all also somewhat geared towards physical damage item 3748 , item 3742 , item 3022 , and item 3053 .

The lack of an AP counterpart to item 3071 really hurts the experience of AP/magic dmg juggernauts like Mordekaiser , DrMundo, and to a lesser extent Shyvana , phoenix stance Udyr , and possibly AP Nasus .

Tanky and/or AA focused AP/magic dmg items do exist item 3102 , item 3030, item 3152 , item 3151 , item 3115 , item 3027 , item 3116 , item 3091 , but Mordekaiser at the item shop still feels like a man without a country.

We need an analogous item with high health, MR pen or shred, conditional MS boost, and a little bit of AP/AD. Could build out of item 3044 and item 3136 , for example. To prevent abuse by intentionally squishy mages, the shred could be an aura like the old item 3001 but only extend only 200 units or so around the champion model.

In addition to finally giving itemization support to AP juggernauts, this item would also provide a good damage build option for some AP tanks such as Amumu , TahmKench , or Zac the way that item 3071 does for Sion or Poppy .

I'd love to hear what some prominent forum Morde players like @Malicious Metal or @MordeÇaiser might think! Absent an item like this, the upcoming rework might better serve us all by turning him into an AD juggernaut. Or maybe bigshots like @Reav3 or @Meddler ?

TLDR AP Juggernauts need their version of Black Cleaver. The end.

EDIT: Here is the item I'm proposing based on these thoughts and your feedback. It's the Face of Funk Smack!

37 Comments

Stars Shaper7/13/2017, 10:06:41 PM5 votes

I think no because so many Mages/AP Assassins would be able to exploit it: Ahri Akali Ekko Kennen Fizz Rumble Swain

Mordepool7/13/2017, 8:32:45 PM4 votes

Honestly they should drop the Juggernaut and classify him as a Battlemage.
He builds 100% Different than everyone else ins his sub Class

But builds identical to. Vlad Swain and gragas

What would I know I've only mained him since S1

Mordepool7/13/2017, 11:27:18 PM2 votes

The Morde mains did kick around an idea a few years ago about Making NIGHTFALL a Mordekaiser only item in the shop seeing as how Riot has always had a problem with balancing him. We never could agree on what the stats could be but the Unique passives where some interesting ones although I can't recall them.

Critmaster Garen7/13/2017, 10:03:37 PM2 votes

dont think ap juggernauts need their own black cleaver. but it wouldnt hurt to build such an effect into mordes kit.

also, morde needs more ap/health options. they need to find a way to make mana on items not a total waste for him, so he can itemize into catalyst items like item 3027 or item 3001

C9 Squeeky 7/13/2017, 8:55:20 PM2 votes

They should just make his AP ratios into AD ratios and call it a day. It would make his normal autos feel better too. But I do see your point with HP scaling and armor shred to amp their damage output. It feels like getting his 3rd Q just takes too long before he takes a lot of return damage, despite the passive's shield and W heal. Just too single target focused while being slow.

KnightOfEloHell7/21/2017, 6:10:16 AM1 votes

I'd love to see an item like this.

Warlock's Gauntlets 400 hp 70 AP 20%CDR Unique Passive: Dread-- damaging an enemy champion with an ability steals 30% of thier movement speed for two seconds, and causes them to take 5% more magic damage with each ability used for 3 seconds. Max 5 stacks.

CAN YOU GUYS IMAGINE THE HUEHUES?!?!

Asayake 5150glow7/13/2017, 11:23:24 PM1 votes

Sion is terrible with cleaver, he stacks it super slow. The stats are ok but not amazing.

LyingOnLine7/13/2017, 11:48:27 PM1 votes

Lol no. Morde already has all the stickiness and pen he needs in the form of Rylai's and Liandry's.

dogownerjr7/20/2017, 12:35:57 AM1 votes

So, item 3071 gives HP, AD, movement speed, and armor reduction. The armor reduction, in my head, is about the same as armor penetration (that's probably not right, but I'm gonna go with that to keep it simple).

The closest AP item to this would probably be item 3151 . It gives HP, AP, extra magic damage scaling with opponent's current HP, and magic penetration.

I personally don't think we need an AP version of Black Cleaver.