Now here they are, our beloved Fighters

Alytrox··15 votes·1,093 views

First of all, you've made an entire class dependent on a broken item : Sated Devourer.

Then you've nerfed to ground everything around it, removed the item, and gave no compesantion back to them, or laughable buffs (like 0.025 AP ratio) Meanwhile, everytime one of Riot's childs like Zed and Ekko receive nerfs, guess what ? Compensations buffs everywhere.

Now, here they are our Fighters class, sitting at an ~ average 45% winrates in both Top/Jungle.

Meanwhile, every time an item makes the Fighters more viable (like BotRK before Season 6 changes), there is some ADC abusing that item, and guess what : nerf it to the ground with 0 compensation buffs for champions that that item is made for (Aatrox/Jax/Tryndamere, etc.). Then you rework Guinsoo's Ragebade and put that broken passive on it. Guess who can pick this item now ? Every fucking ranged champion in the game that can abuse the /hit passive (2k true dmg Vayne in 3 secs it's not fun late-game, you know? ).

Now here they are, all Fighters, who are supposed to love 1v1, getting spanked by full hp/armor tanks. Why ? Because the gold efficiency of %ARP items is pure shit and useless on this class in most cases.

Getting kited to death by all 24/24 hooping ADC's. But better nerf the Boots of Swiftness, right ?

**Is such a bad idea to make more melee only / ranged only items so that you can proper balance them ? **

What if i told you Grasp of Undying/ Sunfire Cape or IBG weren't so overpowered, but they were OVERPOWERED on some champions that are not made for, like Ezreal (IBG), Sunfire & Grasp (Tank Ekko) ? One of the only reason tanks were the highest % winrate on top rate is the actual fact that Fighters are in a totally SHIT position.

30 Comments

Smitemuffin2 votes

This man speaks the truth. Fighters are supposed to be tanky melee damage dealers. Tanks should not be able to build full tank and out-damage them while also having vastly superior utility, but...

  1. Garen is a tank that transitions into an assassin even on a full tank build.

  2. Maokai has more burst than most fighters. He's notorious for being able to flash+W onto mages and kill them 1v1. Add his ridiculous sustain and utility.

  3. Tahm Kench: holy hell that damage on his BASIC SPELL SUPPRESSION. I don't even need to mention he has the strongest shield in the game or his global presence or...

  4. Tank. Freaking. Ekko.

  5. Mundo can cut up to a quarter of your health in his spammable poke spell. One of the best AD steroids in the game.

  6. Gnar has universal laning safety, a huge %max hp shred, poke, lane bullying, absurd cc-chaining and damage

  7. I'm pretty sure everybody has been blown up by more than a few Nautilus, especially in the bot lane

  8. Even built support, Poppy can 1v1 most carries

But what do fighters get?

  1. Olaf completely lacks either the offensive stats to do any meaningful damage (his only use as he has zero utility) or sacrifices the defensive stats he relies to to survive long enough to do his damage.

  2. Volibear's kit is just dumb: his ult is an on-hit magic effect but he's auto attack reliant while having to build full tank. He's got a weak slow and ONE knockup on a ridiculously long cool down. And his passive only procs below the morellonomicon's grievous wounds threshold while having a static cooldown. He's honestly an inferior, mana-shackled Dr. Mundo

  3. Hecarim is...kind of okay, but he's basically been nerfed into the ground

  4. Jarvan? The game says he's a tank, but he has no significant spells for tanking. The last whisper changes force him to build multiple AD items to get any meaningful damage, but he's too squishy to do it anyway.

  5. Xin is only good when on-hit effects are good. They are not.

  6. Mordekaiser? rolls on the ground laughing uncontrollably

  7. Renekton is kind of decent, so long as you don't face any champs that are ACTUALLY good right now

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

{quoted}

This man speaks the truth. Fighters are supposed to be tanky melee damage dealers. Tanks should not be able to build full tank and out-damage them while also having vastly superior utility, but...

  1. Garen is a tank that transitions into an assassin even on a full tank build.

  2. Maokai has more burst than most fighters. He's notorious for being able to flash+W onto mages and kill them 1v1. Add his ridiculous sustain and utility.

  3. Tahm Kench: holy hell that damage on his BASIC SPELL SUPPRESSION. I don't even need to mention he has the strongest shield in the game or his global presence or...

  4. Tank. Freaking. Ekko.

  5. Mundo can cut up to a quarter of your health in his spammable poke spell. One of the best AD steroids in the game.

  6. Gnar has universal laning safety, a huge %max hp shred, poke, lane bullying, absurd cc-chaining and damage

  7. I'm pretty sure everybody has been blown up by more than a few Nautilus, especially in the bot lane

  8. Even built support, Poppy can 1v1 most carries

But what do fighters get?

  1. Olaf completely lacks either the offensive stats to do any meaningful damage (his only use as he has zero utility) or sacrifices the defensive stats he relies to to survive long enough to do his damage.

  2. Volibear's kit is just dumb: his ult is an on-hit magic effect but he's auto attack reliant while having to build full tank. He's got a weak slow and ONE knockup on a ridiculously long cool down. And his passive only procs below the morellonomicon's grievous wounds threshold while having a static cooldown. He's honestly an inferior, mana-shackled Dr. Mundo

  3. Hecarim is...kind of okay, but he's basically been nerfed into the ground

  4. Jarvan? The game says he's a tank, but he has no significant spells for tanking. The last whisper changes force him to build multiple AD items to get any meaningful damage, but he's too squishy to do it anyway.

  5. Xin is only good when on-hit effects are good. They are not.

  6. Mordekaiser? rolls on the ground laughing uncontrollably

  7. Renekton is kind of decent, so long as you don't face any champs that are ACTUALLY good right now

Garen is a fighter (juggernaut)

Another fighter who is also in a good spot is Darius.

The less tanky/more damage oriented fighters are the ones really hurting (like riven or olaf or especially aatrox).

As Darius, I've never ever been blown up by a nautilus. If that fat little fucker uselessness gets in my face Ill five stack him and keep him in my face.

Beldair1 votes

Darius ia annoying..that Bleed damage can be a pain.

But i agree that Aatrox is suffering. I love Aatrox but he doesn't have the survivability to do his job properly.

But in regards to Smitemuffin, Garen is a Juggernaut. A juggernaut's job is to tank damage and deal out a lot in the process. Hence crit on Garen spin to win, Bleed on Darius, Spires on Skarner (i always build him like a bruiser and can 1v2 an enemy duo if i have my build going), Morde ult, Ill tentacles, and Nasus ult.

All Juggernauts have tankiness and kits that allow them to do a lot of damage.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Darius ia annoying..that Bleed damage can be a pain.

But i agree that Aatrox is suffering. I love Aatrox but he doesn't have the survivability to do his job properly.

But in regards to Smitemuffin, Garen is a Juggernaut. A juggernaut's job is to tank damage and deal out a lot in the process. Hence crit on Garen spin to win, Bleed on Darius, Spires on Skarner (i always build him like a bruiser and can 1v2 an enemy duo if i have my build going), Morde ult, Ill tentacles, and Nasus ult.

All Juggernauts have tankiness and kits that allow them to do a lot of damage.

Yep, with the price of mobility, an ever creeping stat that riot is finally starting to put a lid on.

Beldair1 votes

very true.

Though a i felt skarner already came with a price, his buff only being given to him while he was under a Spire his team controlled. That's practically the only Juggernaut with a major limitation

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

very true.

Though a i felt skarner already came with a price, his buff only being given to him while he was under a Spire his team controlled. That's practically the only Juggernaut with a major limitation

Yeah Skarner got royally fucked into uselessness with his update. He's only gotten slightly better now that objectives, especially dragon, can be a lot more important than they used to be (fire drake)

Ralanr4 votes

You know Voli is a fighter, but consider Mundo a tank?

What?

Smitemuffin1 votes

Are you saying the champ with constantly regenerating % max hp and an ult that regenerates up to like 60% of his max hp and builds all defensive items is NOT a tank?

Ralanr2 votes

Yes. That is what I am saying.

His kit is built for his own sustain and survival and offers nothing but damage to his team. A tank is not built to offer only damage to their team.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Then you're confused on what tanks are for. The primary role of a tank is to soak massive amounts of damage. They TAKE damage. Fighters' main role is to DEAL damage.

Mundo is not only a tank, but he is the absolute archetype of one. 3 abilities out of 5 are tenacity and regen.

Ralanr1 votes

I've been of the opinion that tanks engage, peel, and soak for their team.

Mundo's kit is all about sustaining himself and dealing damage. He doesn't have anything that can directly help his team.

He's a primary fighter. He's a juggernaut.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Mundo uses cleavers to close gaps between targets and his team, they also serve to prevent disengage. Hence his tenacity and movement speed buffs.

Sounds like a tank to me

Ralanr1 votes

Olaf isn't a tank and his axes do the same thing.

Smitemuffin1 votes

Rush two damage items on him and see how fast you die

Ralanr2 votes

Fighters normally build two damage items and then straight tank. Mundo is just built so that he benefits offensively from defensive stats.

Mundo isn't a tank. He gives tanks a bad name imo.

Annoxis2 votes

I actually think you are the one who is confusing things. Having reliable survivability doesn't necesseraly make you a Tank. Mundo and Volibear are two example of that. Of a course, a tank is defined by being tanky, but if we take the classification Riot has made, Mundo and Volibear can't be considered tanks. They are not Wardens (total lack of peel), nor they are Vanguards (total lack of big AoE CC that can engage a fight). They are not Juggernauts either, they lack the damage or the kiteability to be considered as one.

So, what are they ? The best name I have come up with is " Tanky Diver ". They are Divers that don't have mobility, but despite that, will give you trouble to stop them to get on your carries. Olaf, Mundo, Volibear, etc... They are not mobile, but impossible to stop. That is what I call a Tanky Diver.

BluePolarizer3 votes

I consider them juggernauts. They are perfectly kiteable. In fact they are more kitable than archetypical juggernauts like Garen or Nasus. All they can do is run at you. They will never reach the back line if your front line doesn't crumble.

They cannot be divers because divers almost always have some sort of mobility + AOE CC + burst, and can act as engage. They directly go for the back line.

Hecarim MonkeyKing Vi XinZhao JarvanIV

Mundo and Voli have none of these characteristics.

Annoxis1 votes

Your consideration have nothing to do with this. They are not recognized as Juggernaut by Riot.

Proof : http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/fWOVQoin-followup-juggernaut-items?comment=000c0001

These are the only ones considered by Riot as Juggernauts (with the exception of Skarner. They said lots of times already that they shouldn't have tried to make him one and therefore he shouldn't be considered as one

BluePolarizer1 votes

they haven't expanded new class coverage to everyon but you can keep playing them as an immobile "diver " if you want and try to reach the enemy backline.

AlwaysByMySide5 votes

{quoted}

Then you're confused on what tanks are for. The primary role of a tank is to soak massive amounts of damage. They TAKE damage. Fighters' main role is to DEAL damage.

Mundo is not only a tank, but he is the absolute archetype of one. 3 abilities out of 5 are tenacity and regen.

You're wrong, actually.

Tanks in League are not defined as being able to soak up massive amounts of damage.

Mundo is a fighter. His primarily role in the game is to dive the back line and kill the enemy carries.

Why do you consider Mundo a tank, but not Volibear?

Oh, and why do you lie to yourself by saying that Volibear is both bad in general and worse than Mundo? Voli is very good right now and is much better than Mundo.

stealthfox942 votes

{quoted}

You know Voli is a fighter, but consider Mundo a tank?

What?

Mundo is a tank.

Frius2 votes

Garen is a tank that transitions into an assassin even on a full tank build.

i thought assasins have gapcloser ,and not kited to death .but. w/e

BluePolarizer1 votes

In general I agree with you but right now there's a few fighters who are decent in mid-high elo play (plat+).

Hecarim is pretty good right now due to being a combination of several valuable things: has an escape, reliable high ranged AOE CC initiation, high tankiness on a sustained damage fighter.

No other engage tank also has an escape or sustained damage. No other sustained damage fighter has both escape and an AOE CC ult. And almost all other AOE engage ults are unreliable to hit on the backline except Malphite. His only weakness is dueling other tanky fighters or tanks, but he is really good for destroying the enemy backline or for peeling enemy divers.

These seem like small things but it really adds up.

Vi is also in a good place. High tankiness, high burst damage, high mobility, has an escape and a point and click CC ult.

Also, Volibear has a much higher influence than Mundo does due to his superior ganks, mobility and AOE damage. His ult deals extremely significant AOE magic damage.

Veraska2 votes

I know black cleaver is in a pretty good spot, so the fighters who favor that item (darius, renekton, wukong, olaf?) Are doing alright

Triforce is getting changes that push it away from adc and crit champions and mire towards your jax and Irelias

And while swifties are losing some movespeed, ninja tabi is getting a buff to its passive, which helps melee dudes getting chunk ed by kiting carries

It's a bad time to be a melee champion in league but it's not the worst it's ever been

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

wukong is an assassin. hes no fighter. everyone plays wukong as an assassin.

Veraska3 votes

I would definitely consider wukong a diver with assassin like qualities, wukong can burst squishies, but his main job is diving or initiating like a vi or something

I do build him heavy on the damage side tho, so I can definitely see the assassin aspect, but I think his primary role is a diver (fighter archtype)

That's my opinion tho

morris12 votes

Don't wanna be that guy but ADCs currently use swifties just as much as fighters.

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ep4F7vsJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-05-24T12:34:02.128+0000)

Don't wanna be that guy but ADCs currently use swifties just as much as fighters.

Especially ADCs that dont care much for AS (draven)

Reaper Review1 votes

If you have any doubts as to what Mundo's role is, compare him to Olaf.

They're both beefy melees with tons of steroids and sustaining tools in their abilities, plus they both have only a skill-shot slow for CC.

Vekkna1 votes

Tryndamere splitpushing and critting through every squishy in a team fight XinZhao deleting anything in one knockup with with no counterplay, adc dps, and tank sustain Olaf getting fed and being unpeelable and unkillable Fiora building tank and doing carry damage MasterYi building tank and doing carry damage Jax rageblade gunblade broken as fuck

I sure as fuck don't miss any of that.

Meanwhile, you still have Irelia Pantheon Udyr Volibear Warwick

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