Why is Alistar support not more common?

Marijumana·Aug 18, 2014·2 votes·6,145 views

With a very small group of champions being viable for competitive play I was wondering why Alistar doesn't get more love. I have been aggressively creating and molding a general item set and play style for the cow. He may not produce the most damage but his utility and tank build are actually impressive.

With a few items like Sunfire Cape, Iceborn Gauntlet, and Randuin's Omen you are EXTREMELY tanky and a complete nuisance in a team fight.

After using your ult charge into the fight and Q the enemy team. Zone out the damage dealer with a W and proceed to tank for your team and E to heal your ADC.

Combine his basic kit with the benefits of the item actives and summoner spells and Alistar is not only a viable choice as a competitive support but almost always a great one.

15 Comments

RiotRiot NitsuaboAug 18, 20145 votes

I'm pretty new to the game, and until recently I hadn't really been able to find a tanky support I liked playing. But I picked up Alistar about a week ago and I'm smitten. I don't know how good he is, but he FEELS like he really has the potential to impact the game. For whatever reason, he makes me want to master him in a way that Braum and Leona don't. He's also forcing me to improve my map awareness, since his roams can be so good.

I picked him up after seeing him played top in the EU LCS. It's pretty cool that, at least in the EU LCS playoffs, he has become sort of a mind-game pick (the way Lulu sometimes is, too). When a team picks him early, you never know if he's going to go top or support. I don't want to spoil anything, but there are probably about 3 games of Alistar support in the EU LCS playoffs, if you want to see him played at a high level. There are more games of him played top, and I still learned a lot about positioning, mechanics, and builds even when he wasn't played as support.

EDIT: Alistar support games from EU LCS playoffs (no team names to avoid spoilers) a game
another game
a third game

MarijumanaAug 18, 20141 votes

Oh sweet, I didn't realize he was actually played quite a bit. Thanks!

MrSc0ttyAug 18, 20142 votes

I've seen him tons since he got buffed. I always see Braum and Morg permabanned, and 9 times out of 10 I play Thresh, and the opposing support always seems to be either Alistar or Blitz, of which I will always prefer the latter

FredDunkAug 18, 20142 votes

Alistar is on the rise at the moment, especially as a top laner. The top lane in comp play is still a bit unstable and is prone to fast changes I'd say, though. I think there's usually not that much gold that goes to the top laner, so the champs with the highest base stats gets sent there. Currently, this seems to be alistar / swain / maokai. Alistar and maokai's damage reduction is worth tons, for example.

TyverusAug 18, 20141 votes

Not having watched much of the pro scene here's my 2 cents: Alistar just doesnt have the same strength to his tools that most other supports do, and the tools he does have others do just as well if not better.

if you want the cc train + tanky pick thresh or leo since both of their cc's last longer than ali's and are more reliable.

It's the heal you want? pick nami or soraka, maybe even karma if a shield serves just as well. All of the champs dont need to spam heal to see the gain and have poke which makes them much more suitable for poke/sustain lanes.

Finally i think it all boils down to these champs having much stronger laning than alistar. Yes by mid to late game alistar is a wall no one wants to find, but early game he's easily dealt with whereas the others offer much stronger pre6 laning and thus can better aid the adc. About the only situation i would pick ali is in a protect the kog game but with so many assassins running around he doesnt offer the same pressure that he used to.

Jinxed AmuletAug 18, 20141 votes

I think Alistar support is actually becoming more popular than in the beginning of the season. In NA, Aphromoo is probably the only one to play him in the LCS, but in higher elo matches Ali is either picked in Top Lane or Support (sometimes mid/jungle). After his recent buffs people started picking him up more. I'm too lazy to get the stats but I think it'll take a while for more people outside of higher elo to pick him up because if you can't combo correctly you are pretty useless. He's all about positioning and zoning which might be difficult for most people.

MarijumanaAug 18, 20141 votes

His zoning when in bot lane is ridiculous. You can force the enemy ADC to miss cs after cs while being able to withstand their damage doing it.

EapenatorAug 18, 20141 votes

Alistar is an amazing champion with strengths and weaknesses that are found in any well designed champion. Sure he has a weaker early game, but he is an invaluable asset when it comes to any other point in the game.

The only reason we do not see Alistar being picked in the support role is because he can currently be played top better. So he is either banned or picked top in LCS/OGN. Perhaps when Riots balances him towards support again/meta shifts, he will come back bottom.

Adrian UmbraAug 18, 20141 votes

The problem with Ali is that none of the items listed above are good support items for the early to midgame (too expensive, fairly selfish picks) and, with the exception of IG, none help his rather impressive mana problems. There's no real reason to build him straight tank either, despite his wonderful CC, as he has no health/armor/MR ratios and benefits most off CDR with some durability due to his lack of "threat" in a normal fight leaving him often unfocused, meaning many of the supportive tank items (like Locket, Relic Shield) are a better choice.

That all being said, he's not a bad support and I encourage you to keep playing him and getting better at him.

ploki122Aug 18, 20141 votes

I beg to differ with the itemization and scaling points.

First of all, Warden's Mail are insane items for laning phase on a get-in-the-fray support like Alistar or Leona. Otherwise, Sheen is also extremely potent on a subset of burst supports and can be the single best item in some cases (hello support Poppy). In alistar's case, depending on the matchup, Sheen could actually be one of the godliest items, since it both gives you mana and makes your harass is now much more potent (can't call it a trade when the enemy is knocked away then stunned).

As for the "no health/MR scaling", it's like saying that itemizing Tristana with AD is bad because she has no ratios. Alistar has a heal, which scales with resistances, and a 70% damage mitigation, which scales with health. In fact, he probably scales with defensive items better than most tanky characters (I still consider Leona the best in term of defensive scaling).

ploki122Aug 18, 20141 votes

From my point of view, his 2 main problems are Headbutt and Triumphant Roar.

First of all, Triumphant roar is probably the weakest heal/second for your ADC, and is probably by far the worst heal/mana ability. so having Alistar in lane won't really make you much more durable, it'll only add an imperial shitton of CC.

Next, you have Headbutt, the "win trade" button. Headbutt is made so that you can simply click on the enemy, headbutt him away, attack him while he's in the air (proccing Sheen/Iceborn/Trinity/Lich if bought) and then the enemy is stunned for a short while. It is the single most abusive 1v1 trading tool, followed by drain.

When paired together you end up with a kit that when strong enough to support, is simply better in a solo lane. When he gets nerfed because of his solo lane presence, it also really hamper shis ability to support, since the supporting is centered around that tanky bullying instead of the heal. Since the kit for the 2 lanes overlap so much, you won't see Alistar support often unless they remove the stun on headbutt and/or make you unable to attack mid-knock (Singed too in that case).

Still, he is one of the deadliest counterpick that can be played. Picking him into things like Thresh/Leona and other all-in champions is sure to give you an edge since you're generally better at 1v1'ing the carry than they are, meaning that you can simply rely on counter-engaging.

Knight SoIaire Aug 18, 20141 votes

alistar ult is too strong and needs a nerf ppl will soon pick him up because of that and then he will get nerfed atm if you are good at using hs ult you can build full damage items and you will still tank a lot of damage not to mention that you will deal very much of damage

70% or damage reduction is equal to like 200 armour and magic resist, all you need is some hp and you can tank for ages, ap increases your heal so it indirectly increases your hp, conclusion alistar is op atm and im realy happy that nobody knows this

67chromeAug 18, 20141 votes

With a very small group of champions being viable for competitive play I was wondering why

Not seeing a champion every game doesn't exactly mean they aren't viable.

A lot of pros themselves pull of much better performances with 2nd to 3rd rate champions they've spent plenty of time on, rather than the meta's top picks as well. Also - pros bring out champions everyone's written off all the time, often bringing some pretty meta-changing performances. You can make such performances with underrated champions as well if you just try.

The meta itself is mostly just determines the top 3 best picks for a given lane. Not because 3 picks are notably better than everyone else, but because the average person is to lazy to really care about the 4th best pick. Also - if you're trying to play or ban the single best champions, you're not going to ban or play #4 a whole lot. Realistically the 4th, 5th, even 10th best picks in a lane aren't very different from the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. In many cases it's a pretty marginal difference you only need a very minor skill advantage to overcome.

Concerning Alistar not being more common - he just isn't one of the top 3 currently.

thedarkonecionAug 18, 20141 votes

I love Alistar and play him often. His kit can easily be used offensively of defensively. Just make sure to build him as tanky as you can get him. Example of a build: item 2049 item 3069 item 3284 item 3110 item 3190 then item 3102 or item 3143

Kazellion2Aug 18, 20141 votes

Strong vs other engage lanes but will get poked out early game by any morg/nami etc. He can have huge impact on a game if gets into mid game but in solo que can lose the duo lane before that point, you're too reliant on your adc(even more than most supports).