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Phase Rush Idea

Flamma·Feb 11, 2018·4 votes·968 views

So Phase Rush currently isn't being taken all that much, with some champs like Viktor even opting into Fleet Footwork. My idea to make it more a more attractive option is:

Basic attacks and abilities generate stacks on enemy champions hit, up to one per attack or cast. Applying 2 stacks to a target within 2 seconds grants 30% - 50% movement speed (scaling with level) for 2 seconds (20% - 40% for Ranged users). Once proc'd, if an additional stack is applied within 2 seconds the movement speed buff is extended by 2 seconds and the user gains 70% slow resistance (50% for Ranged users) for the remaining duration of Phase Rush. 15 Second CD.

This makes it much easier to proc and integrate into trading patterns while rewarding users that stay in the fight. The Ranged nerf of course doesn't have to be there but the 2 ability/auto proc may make it hard for melee champs to trade back in lane so I put it in there. Let me know what you think!

11 Comments

TiureFeb 11, 20181 votes

I like it, but it feels like it gets proced and extended too easily. Even with the slow resistance nerf, Gnar and Cass will be tough to handle.

FlammaFeb 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I like it, but it feels like it gets proced and extended too easily. Even with the slow resistance nerf, Gnar and Cass will be tough to handle.

Yeah I struggled with a way to not make this hell for melee toplaners to deal with. I considered making the cooldown scale down from 30 or 40 seconds to 15 but that still gives Fleet Footwork and many other keystones a lot more uptime than this (at least early on). Thanks for your input!

Laustin SpaceFeb 11, 20181 votes

Or just revert it back to how it was last season.

FlammaFeb 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laustin Space,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eEwsxUd6,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-11T21:50:05.077+0000)

Or just revert it back to how it was last season.

I definitely see the appeal of returning to Stormraider’s Surge, but I think the issue with that is how exclusive it was to damage dealers and non-interactive it got on some ranged champs, where they could just land a single ability on a squishy and run away. This requires more investment for champs that abused it and much less investment for champs that wanted movespeed but could not reliably get to the damage threshold. Thanks for your input!

xxxMadLionxxxFeb 12, 20181 votes

its good but doesn't solve the late game issues melee champs have. Its hard to proc late game

FlammaFeb 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

its good but doesn't solve the late game issues melee champs have. Its hard to proc late game

True, hard CC will still totally shut this down and the movement speed means nothing if the ADC can just 1v1 you, but these are issues that bruisers/melees face as a class and not something that Phase Rush specifically can fix by itself. I feel like this at least gives some champs the ability to get into the fight where before they couldn't really (see: juggernauts/bruisers like Darius, Garen, Nasus). But you make a very solid point!

DeathBurstFeb 12, 20181 votes

This is both too strong and not useful, IMHO. As MadLion said, it doesn't really solve the late game issues of melee champs. But as Tiure also said, it is proc'ed too easily, and would need to be nerfed elsewhere to compensate.

I think the most likely result of this change would be to get the Rune nerfed to a point where it's not really usable anymore. I'm sorry OP, it's harsh words but it's not personal.

FlammaFeb 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This is both too strong and not useful, IMHO. As MadLion said, it doesn't really solve the late game issues of melee champs. But as Tiure also said, it is proc'ed too easily, and would need to be nerfed elsewhere to compensate.

I think the most likely result of this change would be to get the Rune nerfed to a point where it's not really usable anymore. I'm sorry OP, it's harsh words but it's not personal.

Thank you for your honesty! I don't take it personally at all haha, I'm no expert on balance just a Gold player that had an idea.

As for the strength/usefulness, do you have any ideas as to how it could be made more useful? I considered swapping the slow resistance for a smaller % of tenacity but figured that may be even stronger. Compared to Stormraider's Surge (which many people want to go back to), this offers equal/10% more movement speed to ranged/melee for a max 1 second longer, with 25%/5% less slow resistance (but again for 1 second longer), so it is very likely on the stronger side with the current numbers.

Re: melees, my goal when I got this idea wasn't to suddenly fix all of the issues that melee champs are facing. I simply wanted to make this rune more accessible and less awkward for champions that want the burst of movement speed. Again, thank you for your honesty! This is by no means a perfect idea, just something I thought up.

DeathBurstFeb 12, 20181 votes

Well, what I really meant isn't that it's not useful at all, just that it's not more useful than the current version. I don't think Phase Rush is currently in a bad spot, and it's not that hard to proc for most champs. Making it even easier will make it too easy, IMHO, and lead to nerf on other parts of the Rune, which I don't want. I'm not opposed to any change on principles, but since I find the current version OK, suggestions need to pass a higher bar to be worthwhile.

Let's be concrete. What champ would you like to use Phase Rush on, and find yourself unable to, because it's too hard to proc? Personally, the only case I have in mind is Garen, because his E only counts for 1, and you generally want to start your trades with E, but your solution doesn't solve that, and you can work around it with Bami Cinder/Bramble Vest. I also occasionally use Phase Rush on Urgot and Swain, and it works pretty well. I didn't use it personally on Vlad or Nasus, but I'm fairly certain it works as well.

Or put another way, you said your goal with changing the proc model of the Rune is that you want it to be "more accessible and less awkward". But concretely, what do you find hard to access or awkward?

FlammaFeb 12, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well, what I really meant isn't that it's not useful at all, just that it's not more useful than the current version. I don't think Phase Rush is currently in a bad spot, and it's not that hard to proc for most champs. Making it even easier will make it too easy, IMHO, and lead to nerf on other parts of the Rune, which I don't want. I'm not opposed to any change on principles, but since I find the current version OK, suggestions need to pass a higher bar to be worthwhile.

Let's be concrete. What champ would you like to use Phase Rush on, and find yourself unable to, because it's too hard to proc? Personally, the only case I have in mind is Garen, because his E only counts for 1, and you generally want to start your trades with E, but your solution doesn't solve that, and you can work around it with Bami Cinder/Bramble Vest. I also occasionally use Phase Rush on Urgot and Swain, and it works pretty well. I didn't use it personally on Vlad or Nasus, but I'm fairly certain it works as well.

Or put another way, you said your goal with changing the proc model of the Rune is that you want it to be "more accessible and less awkward". But concretely, what do you find hard to access or awkward?

Ah, that makes more sense re: useful.

For specific champions, many of the "juggernauts" were in mind when I had the idea. In laning phase many of them can proc it just fine because it's a 1v1, but in teamfights you kinda just want to pop it asap to get the movement speed, and that's where having to thread in an extra auto attack feels awkward to me. I feel like Garen shouldn't have to build sunfire or bramble just to have to rune be easily proc'd past laning phase (he can go auto -> q -> e but it's hard for him to get on someone without the q movement speed in the first place).

Darius with this change could e -> w and use the movement speed to better position his Q in a big group of champions, Nasus could additionally just e -> w and get the proc to run at the backline. Aurelion Sol and Vlad currently have to thread in an auto attack to get the proc without using either their ultimates or in Vlad's case his long cd W. Viktor with this change could q -> auto and proc it (essentially the same thing he does with Fleet Footwork) so that he doesn't have to use his high mana E to get it. Singed could get phase rush just by E'ing someone with his Q toggled on, which would make the rune much more viable on him.

These are pretty much the champs I thought of, though I'm sure there are more champions that would at least have Phase Rush as an option where before it wasn't. Many of the champs I listed can already proc Phase Rush decently well, sure, but in some cases like Singed and Viktor they don't take it at all when it seems like it should suit their needs. Hopefully this helps clarify what I meant!

DeathBurstFeb 12, 20181 votes

Of course all champs could proc it more easily, your method of proc'ing it is strictly easier. But it's not as if those champs had a hard time proc'ing it right now. Darius, for instance, can E-aa-reset with W (and should do that anyway to get his passive stacked) and will proc Phase Rush. Nasus has 4 easy procs (aa, reset with Q, E, R) and can combine them in any way (his W doesn't work, though, it's no damage at all). Weaving autos for Vlad or Sol isn't exactly hard. Etc.

So sure, the champ you listed would like it if it was a tad more easier. But if you make it too generally easy to proc, not only those champs would use it. Everyone would, or no one at all if the speed buff wasn't good enough. At least that's my understanding of how balance work. I might be wrong, but well... No way to be certain without actually implementing it, and that's not in our hands.

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