Suggestion for Warrior - Make it a Hydra!

Variks the Loyal··9 votes·1,435 views

Enchantment: Warrior is in need of some changes. It's extremely underwhelming in comparison to the other jungle items. These other items have been given cool, unique effects and changes, while Warrior has been left behind. We all know that, currently, the most dominant junglers build either Runeglaive or Devourer, with Cinderhulk being built sometimes. Only a select few junglers, like Lee Sin and Rengar, build Warrior anymore, and sometimes even forgo Warrior entirely. This is because Warrior is, as many people have pointed out, a glorified Brutalizer.

(TL:DR at bottom)

With Cinderhulk, Riot attempted to give jungle enchantments unique effects that are similar or reminiscent of other items. It's what I call 'the jungler's twist'. Cinderhulk is a jungler's Sunfire Cape. Runeglaive is a jungler's Lich Bane. These items are NOT as directly effective as the other items, but in return, they allow the champion who builds them to excel at slaying jungle camps, and gain their Smite bonus of choice. Devourer is currently sort of an outlier, but it's falling into it's place as well.

There is an issue, albeit an easily solved one, with this sort of format. The item needs to be good for the jungler, so as to avoid it being built in lane. In lane, these items, in the past, have been unhealthily dominant. Warrior's rework should ensure that it's favorable for junglers, and not for laners. So, here is my suggestion for Warrior.

Make it into a Hydra.

----- Suggested Tiamat Changes -----

  • Builds out of Pickaxe (875g) and Rejuvenation Bead (180g). Combine cost is 245, for a total of 1300g.
  • 40 Attack Damage >>> 30 Attack Damage
  • 100% Health Regen >>> 50% Base Health Regen
  • UNIQUE Passive - CLEAVE: Basic attacks deal 20% to 60% of your attack damage to units around your target – (20% AD near the edge) (385 range).
  • UNIQUE Active - CRESCENT is removed.

These changes make a Tiamat much easier to build, and allows it to be built earlier. Because of this, some power must be shaved off. The AD and HP Regen is lower, as expected, but also, the Crescent active is removed. This is so it doesn't become a cheap power spike for those who use Crescent, like Renekton for his W cancel or Rengar for his mid leap. The Cleave remains, however, for added damage and wave clear.

I suppose you could keep the Crescent active, if you removed the Cleave passive. Either or would probably work. I favor the Cleave passive staying, though, because that's of more help to junglers, which would help them clear camps quicker, similar to how other junglers benefit from items like Bami's Cinder and Sheen in special ways before reaching their final enchantment.

Because Tiamat gets changes, Ravenous Hydra and Titanic Hydra would need their recipes changed, although their actual stats and total costs would remain the same.


----- Ravenous Hydra -----

  • Builds out of Tiamat(1300g), Vampiric Scepter(800g), and Vampiric Scepter (800g). Combine cost is 400g, for a total of 3300g.
  • The Life Steal on Ravenous Hydra would need to be upped to 16%, but I don't think this would be a drastic change in power for the item. What's 4% more Life Steal between heads?

----- Titanic Hydra -----

  • Builds out of Tiamat (1300g), Crystalline Bracer(600g), and Crystalline Bracer (600g). Combine cost is 800g, for a total of 3300g.
  • By changing the Giant's Belt to two Crystalline Bracers, you buff the build path, to make up for the nerf in the more expensive combine cost.

And here is, finally, my suggested Enchantment.

----- Enchantment: Venomous Hydra -----

  • Enchantment applies to a jungle item (850g). Builds from Tiamat (1300g). Combine cost is 100g, for a total of 2250g.
  • 40 Attack Damage
  • 10% Cooldown Reduction
  • 100% Health Regeneration
  • UNIQUE Passive: VENOM - Deals an additional 14 + (2 × level) bonus true damage over 3 seconds upon dealing physical damage.
  • UNIQUE Passive: CLEAVE - Basic attacks deal 20% to 60% of your attack damage to units around your target – (20% AD near the edge) (385 range). This damage does not apply VENOM.
  • UNIQUE Active: CRESCENT - Deals 60% to 100% of your attack damage to units around you – (60% AD near the edge) (10 second cooldown) (400 range). This damage applies VENOM.

You savvy posters will notice that VENOM is basically identical to Spirit of the Elder Lizard's passive. Yeah. It is.

The Cooldown Reduction is added, just as with Runeglaive, so that not much power is lost in the transition from Warrior to Venomous Hydra. The true damage DoT speeds up jungle clears, as well as providing a constant damage threat to enemy champions, even if all you can do is AA. It also makes up for the loss of the Armor Penetration that Warrior granted.

The Cleave and Crescent passives are identical to Ravenous Hydra, although Life Steal doesn't apply to Venomous Hydra's damage. This is so that champions like Rengar and Kha'Zix, who would build this but still like Ravenous, won't lose any damage potential. It also allows any jungler who built Ravenous to now free up an item slot for a different item. The main drawback is that Ravenous Hydra has significantly more AD than Venomous Hydra.

TL:DR - Warrior is outdated. My alternative is just above.

16 Comments

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Bump?

Meep Man1 votes

This would be a very powerful enchantment... like REALLY POWERFUL! Then again, Sated Devourer... yeah, this could be cool I guess. I would remove the cool down reduction since it just kind of comes from out of left field and instead make it give 50 attack damage and maybe increase the venom damage to 24 base from 14 base... or something like that.

Besides that, I think its a pretty good enchantment. The main thing I'm not sure about is the 16% life steal on Ravenous however... not sure how to fix that predicament.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=doYiBAKh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-19T16:57:04.787+0000)

This would be a very powerful enchantment... like REALLY POWERFUL! Then again, Sated Devourer... yeah, this could be cool I guess. I would remove the cool down reduction since it just kind of comes from out of left field and instead make it give 50 attack damage and maybe increase the venom damage to 24 base from 14 base... or something like that.

Besides that, I think its a pretty good enchantment. The main thing I'm not sure about is the 16% life steal on Ravenous however... not sure how to fix that predicament.

Could adjust the cost, and make it Tiamat+Vamp Scepter+Pickaxe? And reduce the Life Steal?

pripustas1 votes

By buying warrior into hydra/tiamat, they remove non-junger tiamat/hydra from their builds. And then they lack an item.

Variks the Loyal3 votes

{quoted}

By buying warrior into hydra/tiamat, they remove non-junger tiamat/hydra from their builds. And then they lack an item.

That's actually a net buff.

The item slot that Ravenous Hydra used to fill can now house a different item. A Rengar who always built Ravenous now has room for an Infinity Edge, or a Maw of Malmortius, or a Guardian Angel, that he couldn't otherwise fit into his build.

pripustas1 votes

I don't play rengar, but I saw nightblue playing him, and he wasn't even buying warrior. Just tiamat after 850jungle item. Also, it has less AD, and doesn't give vr.

Variks the Loyal2 votes

{quoted}

I don't play rengar, but I saw nightblue playing him, and he wasn't even buying warrior. Just tiamat after 850jungle item. Also, it also has less AD, and doesn't give vr.

That's the exact issue that needs fixing. Junglers should build jungle items. The fact that Warrior champions are now ignoring it entirely is a problem, and should be solved.

And, it has more AD than Warrior (Warrior has 40, my proposed item has 45).

pripustas1 votes

Yep, and hydra itself is no longer viable. What item are you going to buy instead of it?

Variks the Loyal2 votes

{quoted}

Yep, and hydra itself is no longer viable. What item are you going to buy instead of it?

Hydra is still viable, on laners(Renekton, Talon, Fiora, Tryndamere, Gangplank...). Like Sunfire Cape is still viable, on laners, and Lich Bane, on laners.

And buy whatever you like. Black Cleaver. Maw of Malmortius. Phantom Dancer. Infinity Edge. Banshee's Veil. Guardian Angel. Zephyr. Dead Man's Plate. Trinity Force. Blade of the Ruined King. Literally whatever item you want for an AD character that you couldn't build before.

Selloway1 votes

This is a great idea. Love the thought you put into this!

Javazon1 votes

Pretty interesting idea. Adding tiamat into junglers item sound interesting at least. But yea warrior junglers are already generally strong out of the box per se, buffing their item could have some pretty adverse amplifications on other junglers who go sated or tanky. Adding better immediate waveclear and damage could really put warrior's ahead over the cinderhulks who don't/can't often duel or the devour junglers who are already typicaly weak earlygame. VENOM sounds like too much.

Trading 10 armor pen and cdr for tiamat function alone sounds fine. Current warrior's would lose damage but gain some very effective waveclear. The question is if that's a good thing for the game.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

Pretty interesting idea. Adding tiamat into junglers item sound interesting at least. But yea warrior junglers are already generally strong out of the box per se, buffing their item could have some pretty adverse amplifications on other junglers who go sated or tanky. Adding better immediate waveclear and damage could really put warrior's ahead over the cinderhulks who don't/can't often duel or the devour junglers who are already typicaly weak earlygame. VENOM sounds like too much.

Trading 10 armor pen and cdr for tiamat function alone sounds fine. Current warrior's would lose damage but gain some very effective waveclear. The question is if that's a good thing for the game.

I don't think Venom would be too much, since you can't double down on it with the Cleave passive.

Linna Excel1 votes

I agree with this suggestion.

Dr Poro1 votes

AD would probably have to be lowered to 35 or 40 to make it balanced. Atm you're suggesting to change 10 arpen to +5 AD, 2 passives and an active. Also, Ravenous Hydra is already so strong it doesn't need 4 extra lifesteal. Other than that, I really like the idea. Hydra helps a lot in the jungle clear, something that Warrior junglers are currently the WORST at. There should also be another item that builds from brutalizer. Youmuu's as only option isn't really enough as it's so niche.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=doYiBAKh,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-08-26T22:04:48.506+0000)

AD would probably have to be lowered to 35 or 40 to make it balanced. Atm you're suggesting to change 10 arpen to +5 AD, 2 passives and an active. Also, Ravenous Hydra is already so strong it doesn't need 4 extra lifesteal. Other than that, I really like the idea. Hydra helps a lot in the jungle clear, something that Warrior junglers are currently the WORST at. There should also be another item that builds from brutalizer. Youmuu's as only option isn't really enough as it's so niche.

I agree, that Brutalizer should build into something else.

The true damage passive, like Elder Lizard's, should make up for the lack of armor penetration. The main, single target buffs are Crescent and +10 AD, compared to Warrior, which I don't think would be TOO bad.

If it did prove to be too much, though, yeah, the AD could be lowered.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Bump?

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