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Assassins are sometimes not able to "do their job" feedback, suggestions, and tips for riot balance!

UrFieryDoom··5 votes·1,738 views

so it seems at one point assassins were in a good spot and they were strong and did not fear support spamming shields and heals as they had no delays or low.

But ever since that point all the gameplay designers ever cared about was adc's and mages and how cute they want the skin to be for them. And If zed is good against a certain mage/adc that is getting a skin then they will make up some kind of stuff up like he is too op in yada yada yada then he's nerfed.

Ever since 2014-2015 this is all that we have seen.

They were strong, did there job well but apparently the community wanted them to be weak because most lol players play adc champs and mages.

The problem that they have is that assassins specialize in one shotting squishy targets out of position, which mages and adcs are in this category.

So the great duskblade was nerfed 3 times until the hybrid hextech gunblade makes its passive pale in comparison making assassins supports who mow down wards and get REKT BY LULU instead of 'quickly dispatching high priority targets who are out of position".

I think it would not be a bad thing if these changes were to be made.

Duskblade AD increased from 55 to 75(adcs can have a do it all crit item with 80 ad so why not zed?)

duskblade lethality increased from 21 to 23-27 scaling with level(helps assassins in late game)

Youmuus active move through units and AD from 55- 70

edge of knight cost less and 80 ad to make up for no cdr on it so its better to rush and make active infinite duration. make hp lower or remove it and make lethality to 20

lord dominiks regard AD increase from 45 to 60

passive negates 40% armor(mages can why not zed??)

Electrocute increased from 30-180 to 60-230 ratio changed to 45% total ad from 40% bonus(you get about 170 increase if you have 500 ad not snowbally in the least bit)

if electrocute kills or they die within 3 seconds of it then it refunds a portion of cd

new skins for zed and assassins

assassins more played in lcs

more fun lcs and money gained plus assassin hype

scorch changed to 20-60 true damage

ignite deals 80-410 over 3-4 seconds(40 true dmg per second is not good)

flash cd changed from 300 to 370 and less range(get the tp treatment)

Flash could also remain but can only be used out of combat???

shields are 30% less effective against physical damage

zed passive doubled

thats it! thats how assassins can be buffed and made strong and dont listen to the 90% community they will get you no where in fact with infinite nerfs they will still cry.

They will actually learn to like assassins after such buffs are made.

oh and you should ungut conqueror

3.5 ad per hit stacks 5 times for 18?

10% damage converted and 10% healing(deaths dance passive) Look i don't play yi to heal. i play him to 'duel' if i want to heal i'd pick warwick so remove this needless

healing on conqueror. its just conversion return it now lol is in a cancer state without it.

such small yet meaningful changes can be done on lol to make it 10000x better. Most good changes are probably undos of your changes. dont you see now.

36 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon11 votes

The problem is when assassins do their job too well, or when the assassins don't really have counterplay.

Should an assassin beat an ADC in a 1v1, assuming equal gold and skill? Yes. The problem is that sometimes they automatically win the 1v1 when ahead, and they're ahead often due to solo lane exp and typically having more kills (because, again, early game champion).

I have no problem dying because I got outplayed. I do, however, have a problem with Nocturne ulting me from 5 screens away and killing me before I get a chance to react, or even if I do get a chance to react, it ends up not mattering because there's nothing I can do to stop him from killing me.

The problem isn't assassins, the problem is assassins without counterplay after their second kill. An ADC should not lose 100% of fights against them.

UrFieryDoom2 votes

Good job you're complaining about an ultimate. You know what i think ahri shouldnt get 3 free flashes that do half my hp. I also think getting lasered from half a lane away for 70% of my hp is not healthy(lux) GJ FOR USING HIS SINGLE TARGET ULT AS A PROBLEM noc with just qwe cant do much against an adc this is facts.

DuskDaUmbreon6 votes

Nocturne is just one example. And, yes, in fact, he can do a lot against an ADC without R. Maybe not instagib one in a teamfight, but he'll win basically every 1v1 against them as long as he doesn't fire his Q in the completely wrong direction and it isn't a 16/3 Kog.

Also, Ahri's ult isn't free. They're also just dashes, not blinks. And it's not doing half your health unless she's reaching double digit kills. And the range on it isn't that high.

And you can actually dodge Lux's ult.

And why should an ult equal an instant and uncounterable kill? It's a "You die" button if the Noc isn't inting. It's not an instance of "Oh you just can't do anything", nor does it just let him kill them. No, it's just a straight up "You die" button. And it's only on a minute cooldown at 16 40%.

Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter if it's a Noc ulting from well outside where I can do anything from, a Talon just running me down with 600+ MS, or Wukong pressing EQ+AA on me and instantly killing me. There should never be a champion that kills you without counterplay. Even if the ADC lands everything in that 1v1 they're still going to die, period.

UrFieryDoom1 votes

okay then what about karthus ult can you dodge that or are all ults of assassins just broken because they let you do what a burst mage does but its ad? Why cry about it, assassins need to kill adcs with no counterplay but a yi the assassin needs to watch out.

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

Because there's a billion and 5 ways to avoid Karthus's ult.

Why cry about it, assassins need to kill adcs with no counterplay

Also, why?

UrFieryDoom1 votes

its their job, they are melee and have no cc but lux has cc so she have counterplay.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Their job is to kill carries. Not kill them without counterplay.

So why, precisely, do they need to not have counterplay?

UrFieryDoom1 votes

YEA THE CARRY not 5 people. this is proof that riot listened to the community aggressively. AND ignored the assassin fans like me.

UrFieryDoom1 votes

If an assassin doing their job and no skill one shotting a "no armor" adc then you cant push mid afterwards thats on you for being carried so hard by one "carry".

Snowbrand5 votes

{quoted}

Good job you're complaining about an ultimate. You know what i think ahri shouldnt get 3 free flashes that do half my hp. I also think getting lasered from half a lane away for 70% of my hp is not healthy(lux) GJ FOR USING HIS SINGLE TARGET ULT AS A PROBLEM noc with just qwe cant do much against an adc this is facts.

You just compared a targeted nuke with two dodgable outplayable ults (and no, I don't main adc). Yea, then change how his QWE works instead and make his ult some kind of skillshot. Many assassins need more counterplay. Akali and kayn are good examples of champions that you can outplay, but if you don't you die.

EDIT: and Ahri is an assassin too so I don't get your point about her anyway?

UrFieryDoom1 votes

wiki shows her as burst mage and so is Leblanc

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Ahri is a mage/assassin hybrid.

LB is just straight up assassin.

Snowbrand1 votes

{quoted}

wiki shows her as burst mage and so is Leblanc

Well, she more or less play as an assassin

Fízz v22 votes

Then give adcs counterplay too, why should I take 2 uncounterable 400 damage crits per second at 2 items if adcs are allowed to outplay assassins just because they cant accept dying due to bad positioning?

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

  1. Extremely few ADCs are doing 400 damage crits at 2 items.

  2. They generally do have counterplay. You still kill them 90% of the time. Just instead of "Oh I pressed EQ as Wukong and got a kill", you have to actually aim shit and they get to dodge it. You land it? You win! You don't (or they outplay you by dodging it), you lose until we also rework ADCs. But adding counterplay to assassins has to happen first, because otherwise you just have assassins able to dodge ADCs attacks and there's still nothing ADCs can do against assassins.

  3. It's not just dying due to bad positioning. There's no fucking positioning possible against a Nocturne R, or against a champion running up behind you from stealth. And there are countless times where you're perfectly under turret and the assassin is going to kill you anyways as long as they aren't a reoccurring guest star on Kshaway's channel.

Fízz v22 votes

item 3031 + ~level 10 base AD + runes and small items like Dorans = around 180 AD. -> over 400 damage before armor.

Also it doesnt even matter whether my random "400" is true or not, the point is that it has no counterplay.

Your mentality is what lead to assassins being shit in high elo tbh, if adcs CAN outplay assassins, good adc players WILL outplay assassins and they become.. shit and unreliable. Know what adcs can do? Not walk around solo, they literally have a support dedicated to them. And if an assassin jumps in, kills the adc and dies for it (like your Nocturne example), he gets outscaled and its probably not worth.

UrFieryDoom1 votes

well thats an ultimate, adcs just right click 24/7. you didn't name any assassin that has 500 range and can one shot adcs from range that way. Stealth is usually on ultimates or really high cd basic abilities that would leave them open to a gank if they use it aggressively but then again an adc could come try to get him instead then we see more assassin is broken threads.

Drakath20022 votes

{quoted}

well thats an ultimate, adcs just right click 24/7. you didn't name any assassin that has 500 range and can one shot adcs from range that way. Stealth is usually on ultimates or really high cd basic abilities that would leave them open to a gank if they use it aggressively but then again an adc could come try to get him instead then we see more assassin is broken threads.

claims that steath is usually on Ultimates or high CD Basic abilies

forgets Shaoc Q, Evelyn Passive, Twitch Q, Pyke W, all Low CD Stealth abilities that arent ults

IAmTheLego8 votes

In what world are assassins not "doing their jobs"?

Please. Last time I checked, a Zed doesn't even need to land half his combo to get a kill even if same level, xp, gold etc.

Even the items used to counter the assassin class are useless.

Literally all your suggestions are benefiting you and it's absurdly unfair. Wth is that flash change suggestion? Out of combat?

Assuming you're a Zed main, then the legend is true. Zed mains are delusional and hate fairness, given how most of these changes are all directly to zed.

My 2nd assumption is you're just a satire troll.

UrFieryDoom1 votes

Ok mr fairness all of these changes here in consideration... Now will a zed be able to go to a malphite and do his combo without getting ambushed or if he builds armor, not much dmg(lethality is lowered by armor)???

Seems you just consider adcs and mages as all of league but no tank in ur comments.

yes its easy to kill adcs with them but tanks are always able to get armor and duel also with conqueror so nerfed that a tank item(thornmail) destroys it completely then that means tanks shine now more than before.

IAmTheLego5 votes

{quoted}

Ok mr fairness all of these changes here in consideration... Now will a zed be able to go to a malphite and do his combo without getting ambushed or if he builds armor, not much dmg(lethality is lowered by armor)???

Seems you just consider adcs and mages as all of league but no tank in ur comments.

yes its easy to kill adcs with them but tanks are always able to get armor and duel also with conqueror so nerfed that a tank item(thornmail) destroys it completely then that means tanks shine now more than before.

Malphite is a literal counter to Zed. It's like a tank vs a slingshot. Poor choice on this one mate. And all the suggestions are biased towards Zed to the point that it can probably even counter Zed's own counters.

Also, I never said I consider mages and adc as all of league but tanks aren't exactly in a good spot these days unless you're sion and given how the balance is absurd, tanks are more like squishees even.

The mid lane is already dominated by assassins that mages are played supports more often these days.

Drakath20024 votes

{quoted}

Ok mr fairness all of these changes here in consideration... Now will a zed be able to go to a malphite and do his combo without getting ambushed or if he builds armor, not much dmg(lethality is lowered by armor)???

Seems you just consider adcs and mages as all of league but no tank in ur comments.

yes its easy to kill adcs with them but tanks are always able to get armor and duel also with conqueror so nerfed that a tank item(thornmail) destroys it completely then that means tanks shine now more than before.

Ok first off these comments revolve around Mages and Marksmen because THEY ARE THE SQUISHY CHAMPIONS ASSASSINS ARE SUPPOSED TO GO AFTER

If you are an assassin and are focusing the tank..... wth are you doing...? But seriously if you are focusing the tank and failing to one shot him that’s on you, and if your succeeding then that’s proof that assassins are busted

And finally saying that Malphite.... the tank Designed to counter AD, can survive a Zed full combo... well no Flipping Shiz he can... that’s what he was meant to do, that’s how he’s supposed to work, complaining about this is like saying Veigar shouldn’t have 1300+ AP in ARURF, or Talon shouldn’t be able to get from top lane to Bot lane in half the time any jungler that isn’t Quinn/Hecarim/Rammus/Warwick takes to do so, that’s how they flipping work....

Drakath20024 votes

ok lets see

Assassins have zero counterplay

they dont get 40% total armor pen because A) Since its Much Easier to Get 500+ AP than 500+ AD of course there will be more MR in the damn game than there is Armor, and that automatically mean more Magic Pen is needed to counter B) AD Assassins have more options of Armor Pen/Lethality than Mages/AP Assassins have for %MPen and FlatMPen

also the changes to items you sudgested only benefit AD Assassins Zed TalonJarvanIV Pantheon Nocturne Rengar Shaco Kayn Khazix MonkeyKing while it does nothing for AP Assassins Ahri Akali Ekko Elise Evelynn Fizz Kassadin Katarina Leblanc Nidalee favoritism much?

you used an assassin and a mage with a buggy ult hitbox for your examples, with is a clearly a sign you dont know what your talking about, so let me give you examples that actually make sense in the form of the highest damage Mages and their ultimates compared to Assassins Brand easily countered by splitting up and not clustering up close to each other Zoe do i have to explain this one? Veigar point and click with a range that forces him to get closer to the target, which is never a good idea on a squishy, regardless of if your a mage or ADC Rumble can be dodged or you can get out of the range to minimise the damage Lux your an assassin, you have more than enough mobility outside of flash to dodge regardless of buggy hitbox, if my immobile Mage @$$ can get out of it but your Mach5 Traveling Assassin @$$ cant then thats purely on you and not Leagues (Flawed) balance philosophy

Zed gives him untargettability, point and click with a decent range, a literal "didnt kill him? here's a 1shot button" ult incase the electrocute, ignite and basic abilities combo wasnt enough, most often than not an unnessecery overkill Talon AoE damage and no one can dodge if the talon is smart enough to stay in stealth for the whole duration so that no one can figure out which direction the blades are going to fly to Nocturne huge ult radius, point and click, deals more damage than it logically should considering the lack of counterplay. oh and did i mention your gonna suffer from shortsightedness? Kayn dont mind me, im just chillin inside your ally where you cant hurt me thanks to my point and click ult Pantheon wait... your telling me Panth can have both Ignite and a free TP that deals AoE damage as well but Graves cant have his cigar mages arent allowed to actually do their job or not have a very stale build path?!

what else is left for me to point out.....

oh

oh

this version of conqueror is 10x better and 50x more balanced than the older version, even after getting gutted

also as the final nail in the coffin

nerfing Flash will nerf it for ALL LANES + JUNGLE (unless your a shaco player that goes Smite/Ignite or a Hecarim that goes Smite/Ghost) and no one will be happy about good ol' flash that has become a staple part of the meta getting nerfed cause some mage/ADC outplayed you with it rightfully and that you couldnt (for whatever reason, legitimate or otherwise) do the same

UrFieryDoom1 votes

Thats because ad assassins are the ones who have weaker stuff. Tell me when they nerfed zhonyas or even layed a finger on lichbane or death cap... Nothing infact they buffed death cap and void staff. This is like duskblade buff and lord dominik's buff equivilent.

not to mention most "burst mages" do a lot of burst and are always buffed of their burst not utility like riot always gives assassins for faster stuff instead of dmg buffs. Perhaps something along the lines of 1000 damage and 300% ap??? yea zed never gets that kind of treatment.

Plus neeko w makes her aa do more dmg so she can pretty much have dps or something.

Drakath20024 votes

{quoted}

Thats because ad assassins are the ones who have weaker stuff. Tell me when they nerfed zhonyas or even layed a finger on lichbane or death cap... Nothing infact they buffed death cap and void staff. This is like duskblade buff and lord dominik's buff equivilent.

not to mention most "burst mages" do a lot of burst and are always buffed of their burst not utility like riot always gives assassins for faster stuff instead of dmg buffs. Perhaps something along the lines of 1000 damage and 300% ap??? yea zed never gets that kind of treatment.

Plus neeko w makes her aa do more dmg so she can pretty much have dps or something.

lets see..... Death cap did get buffed, true, but Void staff actually got an ap nerf going from 80 AP to 70 AP

and Zhonyas is a trash tier/noob trap/joke of an item, nerfing it is the equivalent of riot saying "hey AP users!...... F*** you!"

and Lich Bane is only built by the AP Assassins that rely on weaving Auto Attacks into their skill combos (why do you think Ekko and Fizz buy it more often than LeBlanc and Ahri despite all 4 being AP Assassins?) and its damage doesnt even compare to TForce

name me one AP Champion who's ability, ANY ability gets a 300% AP Ratio... ill wait.... till i die and get burried in my grave that is, cause the closest to that obsurde number is neeko's 130% AP ratio on ult which isnt even half of 300, and Veigar's ult ONLY if the target is bellow 33% max HP

and last i checked Zed had as much utility as a utility mage without their weaknesses

Slow, AoE, Blinks, Manaless, reaply all damage dealt during ult duration, Skillshot that goes through targets and is mimicked by his shadow

if you really wanna make a legit post about AD assassins being weak use an example thats ACTUALLY weak...

UrFieryDoom1 votes

Ok first of all 10 ap is like duskblade losing 5 ad. zhonyas trash?? Then why does everyone hate it. Ahri and LB are burst mages thats why they dont need bane. TF is a control burst mage so he has access. AD assassins are bothered by shields and cc when adcs just right click them constantly. need i say more?

Drakath20023 votes

{quoted}

Ok first of all 10 ap is like duskblade losing 5 ad. zhonyas trash?? Then why does everyone hate it. Ahri and LB are burst mages thats why they dont need bane. TF is a control burst mage so he has access. AD assassins are bothered by shields and cc when adcs just right click them constantly. need i say more?

Your not saying enough to begin with

LB and Ahri have been designed as assassins, regardless of if ranged or if classified as Mage secondary, cause their primary class is assassin

Malzahar was classified as Mage primary and Assassin secondary but you don’t see me calling him an assassin because of it

And people hate Zhonyas for many reasons, some hate it because the user got lucky and used it somewhere the Assassin doesn’t dare step close to (behind the Turret, or near a fed 1vs1 Champion like Jax), while the other half hate it cause unlike the 15% that do succeed at using it through the sheerest stroke of luck, they didn’t survive even with it (like using it within Turret range but not deep enough for the assassin to take 2 shots, around incompetent allies that feed a double/triple to the assassin, assassins that just wait out the zhonyas and proceeds to kill you anyway) but of course seeing as how you are defending a class in a very decent place currently you’d deny my claims, don’t bother with that you’ll just prove my point further, but by all means if you have a comment on that first point regarding LB and Ahri go ahead, I don’t mind going back and fourth on that just to see where it goes :^)

Titanium703 votes

Here the downvote you are asking for - happy?

And please - go read something about gamedesign instead of wasting your time like this... Or play Apex...

UrFieryDoom1 votes

Okay adc main i bet you waltz around knowing you have 800 damage per hit aa point and click(no cd btw) while there are perfectly balanced people with cooldowns that you despise that are designed to kill ur mains.

Burst assassin being a burst assassin isnt bad. Its not like having strong lethality is bad just look at burst mages and they have this insane op dmg give zed a break man!

Titanium704 votes

Burst assassin being a burst assassin isnt bad.

See and that's the problem, they are.

An Assassin "doing their job" always means greyscreenning an opponent with no counterplay what so ever... I mean YOU want to able to "do your job" even in a 2v1 where one of the two is soley dedicated to protecting the other.

And if they could do that - and at several point in League they can - that's plain and simple bad gamedesign. The "Assassin-Fantasy" works in SinglePlayer games - any PvE, too.

But in PvP it's always toxic and should never leave being niche to play against bad teamcomps!

Btw.. no ADC main - but why I'm even arguing - after that thread talking to a wall would be more successfull - see ya

UrFieryDoom1 votes

1 opponent correct but this is a team game or so they say.

UrFieryDoom1 votes

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH GREY SCREENING A PERSON ADC wiiiith attack speed boots crit and no lifesteal. thats basically like they have no defence items what so ever. The counterplay is buying armor or not positioning like that lmao

Metal Janna3 votes

A Burst Mage has to land a CC to catch you out of position. An Assassin makes you "caught out" by repositioning themselves. Syndra is a burst mage. LB is an assassin.

MAY I LEAD2 votes

Whole heartedly agree.

If you miss position as a mage or ADC you should be punished for it. You may do far and away the most damage in the game as a Mage or ADC but I should be able to counter pick you.

UrFieryDoom1 votes

And no it looks too strong but thats because everyone who isnt an adc or mage(lux, malz) is made weaker. This is them stepping up and not just a melee with abilities

Kanzler1 votes

Tl;dr. However, considering you said "sometimes", Ill take that to understand that they are healthy and not overbearing or useless.

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