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Sona really needs help.

Atuko··59 votes·6,012 views

I hate to say this, I really do, because I really do love this champion with all my heart, but I've been straying away from my favorite champion in this game recently, simply because I usually feel quite useless when I play her.

I love Sona, but her kit is currently so skewed around needing so much AP to actually be semi-useful you can't even build full support or you'll be even more useless, I CANNOT stress this enough

And plus everything in her kit is so underhwhelming. speaking of underwhelming, if I had to describe Sona right now, that'd be it, underwhelming. Her current actives aren't really cutting it in terms of impact, neither are her power chords.

If your team is behind then there is very very little you can do to help them. This is where I feel useless, My team is behind and gets engaged on, the only thing I can do is send out a Cresendo, my only hard CC, and once that 1 and a half seconds is over, they just continue running at us, and theres nothing I can do. I could possibly use my W or E power chords but what's the use? They're both extremely underwhelming and wouldn't make much of a difference, and it would only halt me up.

I can use my heal shield thing, but a 115 shield that lasts for 1 and a half second, and a 110 heal, both with 20% AP ratios, means nothing when the enemy mage is doing damages up in the 1000-1700+ zones, and plus I'd have to stand right next to that ally, which means I'm probably a goner as well trying to protect them.

An single on hit AA bonus (Q) is useful for absolutely nothing late game, when other supports are sending out hard CC's left and right on basic abilities and actually doing something impactful. And people claim that Sona is able to "two-shot" people late game, well if you get close to anything late game the only thing that's gonna happen is you're gonna get blown up because you're a piece of paper.

I'm just explaining how I feel when I play Sona. Do you agree? Maybe if you've had similar situation.

The only thing Sona has going for her is early game, and thats really about it, her damage is fine and is the absolute last thing that needs to be buffed on her. Her mid game is ok and then late game she is pretty useless.

Riot, I just want to feel....impactful when I play Sona, because right now everything on her kit is feeling really underwhelming compared to all the other supports. They are actually able to save their carries from a bad situation somehow. And how should that translate into an AOE aura buff support? I'm not sure, but Sona...she really needs something right now. Could we take a look at her old kit and bring some stuff back from that, and modernize it so it fits today's standards?

She lost a lot of power with her rework due to a lot of invisibility she had, did she get visibility with her rework? Yes, but she got very little power in return. Please bring her power back, please. You can make Sona harder to play if it is needed, I'll be perfectly fine with that, just please give her back her power.

EDIT : Right now would be the best time to try out some Sona changes, and we could see how they interact with the preseason changes, and if we need to add on or pull back on anything

143 Comments

Atuko9 votes

Everyone keeps throwing AP Sona in my face so I'm gonna say this once again even though I've said it quite a few times

A support

who needs

to build

like

a full AP mage

to be actually relevant

is not ok

Like seriously, it's not ok :^(

Dominick Destine8 votes

I tend to agree.

Sona is the worst support right now.... this means even if she is matched against another average support, she will lose... if she is matched against a dominant support, she will not only lose, she will drag down her lane with her. You compare Sona to Alistar, Leona, Tahm Kench, Soraka, Thresh, Blitzcrank or even weaker supports like Brand and Zyra; Sona will always be worse. Sona has been utterly gutted.... her values on Q were smashed to the ground with her W and E faring even worse.

People that argue that Sona's ultimate is a game-changer need to qualify that statement; How is Sona's ultimate better than a well placed Alistar Q? how about a good pull from Blitz? Sona's ult is very low range with a long delay on start, it is one of the worst ultimates of its kind... far worse than Nami's ultimate which is larger/longer/has multiple benefits.

I loved old Sona and I want to love current Sona, but she just sucks if you are playing to win.

It Is I Emoto6 votes

I honestly agree with this post, but the replies in this post are.. not helpful. Sonas current playstyle is about poking enemies to death. Build a Lichbane, throw your Q powerchords on them, watch them using their summoners. Her current W and E auras literally do nothing, since they're extremely underwhelming, and of course, you could just throw at them your Q, wich is the playstyle rito basically forced her to.

Of course they did that to bring more active power into her kit, since she used to sit at the edges of teamfights while supporting everyone with the right aura, and then either dis/engaging with her ult, but honestly, as a fragile champion like her, she had no other option.

I once had a rework posted here, turning Sona to a buffer but at the same time a debuffer, shifting most of her powerchord debuffs on her active abilities wich would act as skillshot, but being easy to cast like Karthus's Q and etc smartcast abilities. That way she could time her Auras/Debuff abilities propertly and would not change too much of her current and older gameplay, but that's something to be discussed lmao.

Whats in your mind to improve Sona or give her her old power back?

Atuko11 votes

Well of course, in a perfect world, my resposne would always be to bring back Sona's old kit, but modernize it so that it's not completely invisible power and so that it fits into today's kit standards. I wouldn't even care if they made Sona harder to play, just as long as she gets her power back. Even add in the whole "rhythm" mechanic that has been suggested, for perhaps more complexity and of course to add to Sona's thematics. I'd really love to see this.

But with the current kit, it's just "touch your ally with this circle one time", that it. You don't even get rewarded for keeping your allies in the circle.

I feel as an aura, whatever bonus you get when being touched by it should be a consistant bonus, and you should be rewarded for constantly keeping your allies inside whichever aura you have up.

And also her Q aura should give bonus damage to allies auto-attacks AND abilities, not just auto-attacks, so that way it'll actually be useful outside of laning phase and you'll actually have a purpose for using it late game besides for poke

And also her kit needs to be fixed in general, her kit right now is extremely too reliant on AP that building Sona as a full support is actually useless.

Her E and W power chords are underwhelming at the moment.

And maybe her aura bonuses could use some changes so that they feel more useful and impactful, that's all I can think of right now.

It Is I Emoto2 votes

(honestly, as someone who played Sona pre-rework alot, I loved it much more and I wish for it back too, mostly because it synthesized much better with her passive)

Consistent Auras would be a great thing, but again, that's 'invisible' power, and rito does not tolerate that anymore (Let's see... Zilean lost his passive aura too, and now it's just... weirder) And I guess every Aura possessing champ will recieve the same judgement as Sona, removing their Auras for new active powers.

Active Powers aren't that bad either, just make them worth to be used and it works. Unfortunately, Sonas 'Active Auras' are not worth to be used, and you just use the ability to either poke or heal. Honestly, someone of the balance team should take a closer look at Sona and give her new strenghts to her currently weak kit, she really needs them to keep up with current Supports. I would love to see more pre-6 cc tho

Atuko2 votes

Speaking on the consistant auras, what if they were to like, give all allies who're being buffed by the auras a particle on them (like a glow or something) to indicate to everyone that they are in fact being buffed by the aura? So that way it's not so invisible?

And they could make it more complex than just stand next to your allies for the aura to buff them, there could possibly be windows of power in the auras with the "rhythm" mechanic. I think I saw an idea on gaining rhythm through casting your spells, or something like that.

Pika3104 votes

The thing about Rito and "invisible" power seems exceedingly inconsistent. They changed Sona's visuals for the sake of "visibility"(which failed) then decreased visuals on things like Corki's spells and autos because they were TOO visible. Rito will never have consistency in their values apparently...

Meanwhile, they gutted Sona's kit just for the hell of it. Solely because Fearless hates her, no real reasoning behind it, just some BS excuses.

It Is I Emoto2 votes

decreased visuals on things like Corki's spells and autos because they were TOO visible.

tfw rito decreases visibility of abilities/attacks when they tried to make them visible or noticeable, they begin to contradict themselves lmao.

Anyways...

what if they were to like, give all allies who're being buffed by the auras a particle on them (like a glow or something) to indicate to everyone that they are in fact being buffed by the aura? So that way it's not so invisible?

I don't even know if rito wants to try that out, because they could've done that with pre-work Sona. giving the champs in aura range an own glowing effect around them, that'd literally increased the visibility by 150% without reworking the champ to give it these... 'snuggle zones' okay i should stop using aura for her snuggle zones, I'll just call them snuggies or something lmao

Dalthine6 votes

Personally I always felt much more impactful on old Sona than new one. New Sona my q stings and it's much easier to use, but that's all I ever feel good about. W often feels like it barely does anything and the shield is nigh useless while my mana disappears like there's a hole in the bar. E is so useless people sometimes don't put a point in it until they have to.

On old Sona it felt amazing for me to go "Oh, we're pushing this tower? I'll press q so everyone gets an ad boost to make it fall faster." Or "Oh, the enemy is charging at us? Well, I'll use e to tag my allies so we outrun them."

I don't feel those moments at all with the new kit with those horrid snuggle zones. Instead all I can do is throw out some half ass poke or try to get a good ult, and the rest of my kit barely matters. Especially after lane phase.

As I recall, someone mentioned that her power has the potential to be phenomenal. On paper. If you get every ally tagged with that snuggle zone. And they can all make use of the bonus. Which is like herding cats on the rim of an active volcano.

red panda z3 votes

I still play Sona and I think she has more utility than you give her credit for. She's the kind of support that doesn't really need many support items because she comes with so much. Building AP on her makes her utility strong, from the healing, to the shields, the speed buff, and the slow proc. Her ult is still a game-changing stun that could hit the entire team.

Yes, you still build a sightstone. For me though, thats all the support items I need. From there I want Chalice for mana problems, and I go to lichbane right from there. Her job is to poke hard early game, then late game she's party wide utility. The shield might not look much, but in a team fight it's really handy. It's like a free iron locket every 6 seconds. Her E's speed buff is really fast once she has a handful of AP, and it might not last long, but again it's ever 6 seconds. No it won't help you in the middle of a fight, but it's helpful to engage and to disengage. Use the E's power chord too, it will help you secure your team kills on stragglers.

only zhule11 votes

[{quoted}](name=red panda z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djomfj1W,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-29T15:30:30.952+0000)

I still play Sona and I think she has more utility than you give her credit for. She's the kind of support that doesn't really need many support items because she comes with so much. Building AP on her makes her utility strong, from the healing, to the shields, the speed buff, and the slow proc. Her ult is still a game-changing stun that could hit the entire team.

Yes, you still build a sightstone. For me though, thats all the support items I need. From there I want Chalice for mana problems, and I go to lichbane right from there. Her job is to poke hard early game, then late game she's party wide utility. The shield might not look much, but in a team fight it's really handy. It's like a free iron locket every 6 seconds. Her E's speed buff is really fast once she has a handful of AP, and it might not last long, but again it's ever 6 seconds. No it won't help you in the middle of a fight, but it's helpful to engage and to disengage. Use the E's power chord too, it will help you secure your team kills on stragglers.

I don't know where people are getting these ideas that your early game damage is this total powerhouse. Sure level 1 full combo does some pretty good damage, but it's not going to get you a kill, and you can't repeat the full combo for about 30 seconds. Fast forward to level 3, your full combo does surprisingly less % damage and the chance of a counter engage is much higher, you still can't have the powercord up often because burning your W for a free charge will drain your mana super fast (and you can't get a decent mana regen item early). Your normal Q into empowered AA doesn't tend to trade well against an enemy unloading a rotation on you/ getting a couple free AA's. She is great against people who see the damage and panic, but as soon as you find someone who knows her burst can't kill and can't be repeated quickly you start losing trades and failing to push enemies out of lane.

You comment about the possible game changing power of her ultimate. Do you rate Galio, Nami, Leona, Malphite, and all the other champions with possible full team stuns as "game changing"?

FantasySniper2 votes

It's not about getting the kill, it's about the pressure. They can't trade with you, but they also can't leave you alone or else you'll sustain away any lingering damage. The only time this doesn't apply is if the enemy has a Relic Shield, and they get free sustain out of it, which can sometimes still be done should you have a competent enough ADC.

only zhule3 votes

{quoted}

It's not about getting the kill, it's about the pressure. They can't trade with you, but they also can't leave you alone or else you'll sustain away any lingering damage. The only time this doesn't apply is if the enemy has a Relic Shield, and they get free sustain out of it, which can sometimes still be done should you have a competent enough ADC.

What pressure? the level one combo does so much because often you surprise your opponent with it. Unless your enemies are going to have the ADC keep face checking the unwarded bush, you can rarely put any sustained pressure on. Her Q into empowered AA (no powercord) isn't nothing, but it often isn't enough to apply heavy pressure much less enough to zone someone out before the enemy support hits level 2 (usually the tipping point where they get their CC if they didn't start with it). I love Sona and her 1-2 punch is kind of a cool trick but if you are playing against people who are even half smart you won't be able to get it off safely on the target that matters (do her full rotation on a tank support and see just how cost prohibitive it is).

All that aside, the issue isn't her damage it's that her utility is god awful. None of her skills offer much until you are drowning in AP 400+. Even then it often just levels her utility off to around levels another champion who is rocking 200-ish AP. If i want a heavy damage champion i'm going to pick one with more power and/or more then one damage skill. Not a champion that needs 400+ AP to finally hit medium levels of power.

FantasySniper2 votes

If the enemy ADC is going for a creep, you hit them with a [Q]. Most often you don't even need to worry about retaliation, so no need for use of [W] unless they are going to spend a spell. If the enemy support is melee, you're generally in a pretty good spot because they can't react at all and have to start a combo to even touch you. Because of that, you can exploit their CDs - including flash - to keep them away with harass should they ever come near. If your ADC is competent, they'll be using the same tactics and you'll have about double the damage dealt whenever you poke. (Maybe even more if you can get in a little follow-through.)

When you're saying she needs so much AP, you make it sound like she's to played as a mage, and that's not necessarily true. Being a support, she supposed to buff others, not herself, and her strength lies in not the buffing of a single teammate, but the entire team. What would be a huge loss in health can be "nudged" by at least 1500 to your team's advantage - before consideration of AP, her passive, or her ultimate. If you want a heavy poke support, pick Zyra, Brand, and the like, but Sona doesn't exactly fit that description, and thus shouldn't be forced into that role.

only zhule3 votes

{quoted}

If the enemy ADC is going for a creep, you hit them with a [Q]. Most often you don't even need to worry about retaliation, so no need for use of [W] unless they are going to spend a spell. If the enemy support is melee, you're generally in a pretty good spot because they can't react at all and have to start a combo to even touch you. Because of that, you can exploit their CDs - including flash - to keep them away with harass should they ever come near. If your ADC is competent, they'll be using the same tactics and you'll have about double the damage dealt whenever you poke. (Maybe even more if you can get in a little follow-through.)

When you're saying she needs so much AP, you make it sound like she's to played as a mage, and that's not necessarily true. Being a support, she supposed to buff others, not herself, and her strength lies in not the buffing of a single teammate, but the entire team. What would be a huge loss in health can be "nudged" by at least 1500 to your team's advantage - before consideration of AP, her passive, or her ultimate. If you want a heavy poke support, pick Zyra, Brand, and the like, but Sona doesn't exactly fit that description, and thus shouldn't be forced into that role.

You are missing the point i'm trying to make. Her utility is very bad on many levels.

  1. since her utility is team based it means that your ability to help 1 ally is very low. Most other champions with a heal or shield have a very strong single target, this mean you can save one ally from getting killed. Sona has higher numbers if you get your whole team but that means very little when the ADC/Mage you are trying to save still gets easily blown up because your shield only stopped about 150-200 damage compared to the 350-500 another support may have been able to offer. It's rather rare that your whole team is going to be taking damage at the same time so single target healing/shield is often the better choice. Also since the shield are on a very short duration it is more then possible that they will simply fall off if the target you are helping isn't under direct attack at that very moment.

  2. Her Aura range is god awful. While it's true your team will rarely all be taking damage at the same time, since you have such short range to help, you are often running around like a headless chicken making it much harder to land damage that would help in a team fight. Or forcing your team to group up making them much easier to AOE and much harder to dodge.

  3. Where other caster support champions can survive and thrive in the late game with something around 200 AP, Sona needs close to double that for her abilities to be anywhere near on par. This isn't about her doing a ton of damage because high AP it's that your utility is under whelming unless you are sporting APC levels of ability power. This not helped at all with the fact that her utility all have very low ratios. So you again need much more power to get the same effect. Let's use her W for example at max power it will negate 150 damage +20% ap. So even at a wooping 500 AP you are blocking only 250 damage per ally, Janna on the other hand with the same level of AP would give a single target a shield of 590.

  4. You comment about melee support champions. Let's go with 4 of the basics Blitzcrank ,Thresh , Leona , and Braum . All 4 of these champions have very easy ways to punish you for trying to charge down their ADC, for the most part if any of them catch you with a skill you are losing the trade super hard. You can try to use minions to dodge thresh and Blitz, but this means you often won't be able to poke the ADC hard enough to apply pressure. Her basic Q bolt doesn't do very much damage, meaning you need to land the empowered AA, and basically all ADC have equal or greater AA range then you. Plus their own abilities they can counter hit you with. Leona can zone you out with the threat of her dive and stun (since it out ranges your skills). And Braum is often more then willing to let you over extend to try and poke his ADC since his slow is usually going to mean a burnt flash or a death. All 4 of these champions are also usually more then happy to eat your spells since they have high base health and resistances plus often a built in sustain with item 3302

TL:DR:

  1. team buff means bad numbers per player, and balanced scaled around tagging 3-4 allies

  2. Aura range is too short to tag allies unless they group up. Balling up is a bad idea in team fights

  3. Low ratio's on Utility means you need a ton more AP to get up to par with other supports.

  4. melee support champions tend to have good engage tools and unless your opponents are dumb they won't let you keep getting free damage.

I do have a question for you though. If Sona is in such a good spot then why have you chosen not to play her more then once in a ranked game over the last 3 months? If support isn't your preferred role then it seems odd to be commenting about the power level of those champions. If it is, it seems very odd that you have shy'd away from her for so long despite her being in a "good place"

Lugg3 votes

Sorry, but there are at least two dozen champs that need work before Sona.

Pika3107 votes

I dare you to list them.

http://p1.i.ntere.st/aeec70ffe747a2afe068e5ccf0095a3d_480.jpg

Lugg3 votes

Aatrox Cassiopeia Chogath Ekko Fiddlesticks Gangplank Garen Gragas Graves Irelia Jinx Kalista Khazix Kindred LeeSin Lucian Lux MasterYi Mordekaiser Nidalee Pantheon Poppy Quinn Rengar Riven Ryze Shaco Shen Skarner TahmKench Talon Teemo Tryndamere Twitch Vayne Veigar Vladimir Warwick XinZhao Yasuo Yorick Zed Zyra

All of those champs need nerfs, buffs, or reworks. Sona is pretty well balanced compared to any of them.

Emmy Cha0s4 votes

Lmfao, I can't believe you actually took that dare. He was trying to provoke you into making yourself look like a jackass and you intentionally did exactly that.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/cardfight/images/c/cb/Yao-ming-meme.jpg

Lugg3 votes

Look in the mirror if you want to see the Jackass. Sona has a 53% win rate. She is well balanced.

Emmy Cha0s4 votes

...and Thresh has a 48% winrate. I guess that means he's a shitty champion that needs major buffs. Well, according to you anyways.

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/answers/3423000/3423490_1386207408788.45res_375_300.jpg

Lugg3 votes

Low winrates don't always mean a champion is weak, but high winrates ALWAYS mean a champ is strong.

Miku Hime sama4 votes

I'm amazed at how blatantly 2-faced and hypocritical that 1-sided bias is.

"Having a high win-rate means a champ is good and having a low win-rate means a champ is also good because that's the only way to justify my hatred of Sona. By claiming every champ in the game is good, even though I already gave a list that I personally believe not to be."

This is the problem with weaving a web of lies, the constant contradictions continue to tangle it further and further.

https://i.ppy.sh/1d63331995cb30046ddb91403a5ea2e840a8092b/687474703a2f2f7075752e73682f327070704d

Lugg3 votes

You have to be kidding.

When a champ has a high win rate at all levels, that champion is strong. To say otherwise is just plain stupid.

Low winrate is where things get complicated. Look at Ryze as an example. He is pretty hard to play for most players and has a pretty low winrate. However, just look at what Faker did with him at Worlds when you play him correctly. You could argue that he is OP even though he has bad winrate.

It isn't a case of hypocrisy, it's a case of actually understanding how the game works as a whole. Some champions are much more mechanically demanding and therefore require much more practice to be successful with.

Pika3104 votes

Your words are so inconsistent, I'd honestly believe you if you told me you work for Rito's "balance" team.

"All champs that have high win-rates are strong because they have high win-rates. No actual reasoning behind this logic, I just believe it's the word of god. On the other hand, champs with low-winrates are ALSO strong if you know how to play them. Please ignore the fact this is true of ALL champions, I want to misleadingly apply it in a way that arrogantly suits my needs. Also please ignore that this directly contradicts my blindly loyal worshiping of high winrates."

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0b/0b65972926135f12023670e4a4856f7558ca70aee4b2fa2cc31c808b628fcd53.jpg

Lugg3 votes

{quoted}

"All champs that have high win-rates are strong because they have high win-rates. No actual reasoning behind this logic,

If you can't understand something that simple, there is no explaining anything to you.

Pika3104 votes

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Tell%20Me%20More%20Meme%201_zpshodykmqw.png

Please, tell me more about Amumu, Brand and Rammus' super OP kits and their pick/ban status at worlds and in pro-play/challenger.

Lugg1 votes

Amumu has been in the upper tier for a LONG time now. The ONLY reason he isn't seen all the time in competitive play is that he isn't an early impact jungler. The snowball meta that we have been in for the last 5 months HIGHLY favors early pressure junglers. Otherwise, Amumu is a prototype champ. Very tanky, great damage over time, hard engage, game winning ultimate, etc.

I was surprised Brand didn't see more play at Worlds since he is very strong at support right now. He gives you hard CC and great damage from the support role. I guess pro teams think his lack of mobility is too big of a liability at that level.

Rammus has the same problem as Amumu, lack of early pressure. If you look at the junglers that were played 95% of Worlds, they were all early ganking junglers.

Pika3104 votes

Saddest thing is, I know you truly believe what you're saying. I know you truly believe people in Challenger are face-rolling with them every game. I know that you're honestly surprised Brand wasn't picked over the likes of Thresh.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v636/pika310/Hatsune%20Miku%20Meme%2025a_zpscbpjd67e.jpg

TNHA Baritone5 votes

You're ignorant.

"Sona has a 53% winrate. She is well balenced"

You just contradicted yourself.

Lugg3 votes

Please explain how someone with a good winrate is so weak.

Pika3104 votes

Please explain how someone with a bad winrate is so strong.

Lugg3 votes

The reason some very strong champions have bad win rates is due to them being mechanically complex. You have to put in a lot of games to learn them. While you are learning them, you are going to lose a lot of games. However, once you do master that champion, you will win more game than you lose. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

So I have now answered your questions, please now answer mine on how someone with a strong win rate is weak.

Pika3104 votes

I mean, countless people have already told you countless times, but sure. I'll copy and paste some of those reasons again for the nth time since your close-mindedness keeps demanding that they be repeated ad infinitum.

  • Lowest base AD amongst the support class, excluding Thresh/Lulu

  • 2nd lowest HP and armor of supports, after Zyra

  • Lowest MS tier in the game

  • 3rd-lowest mana of mage supports

  • The ONLY support in the game with ranged abilities less than 550-units, she has an entire THREE that are an abysmal 350 each

  • Lowest base damage on a support spell

  • 2nd-lowest total support damage of a full spell rotation, just above Braum

  • Weakest heal in the game

  • Weakest and shortest-duration shield of all supports

  • Only support w/o hard CC pre-6
Lugg1 votes

{quoted}

I guess I will have to spell it out for you AGAIN since people just want to be mindless sheep following an idiotic shephard.

  • Lowest base AD amongst the support class, excluding Thresh/Lulu

Sona is an AP champion. Her AD rating means basically nothing. This is just another feeble attempt to list something that is completely irrelevant to her kit and impact on the game.

  • 2nd lowest HP and armor of supports, after Zyra

She has a heal, which gives her the sustain to overcome that weakness.

  • Lowest MS tier in the game

Which is completely negated by her MS buff ability.

  • 3rd-lowest mana of mage supports

She had to be gated. I guess you don't remember the time when she was BY FAR the strongest support in the game.

  • The ONLY support in the game with ranged abilities less than 550-units, she has an entire THREE that are an abysmal 350 each

ROFL! Where the hell do you get your information from? Oh yeah, it's that mindless sheep thing believing whoever your idol is on the boards.

Her Q has a range of 850 and is auto hit. Her W has a range of 1000. Her R also has a range of 1000. The ONLY ability with that range is her E.

Here is the link since you are obviously too lazy to actually look up facts: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona

  • Lowest base damage on a support spell

Yeah, let's completely ignore the fact that it adds bonus damage to her next AA as well which actually makes it one of the more damaging spells for a support. This doesn't even count the times when Power Cord is applied.

  • 2nd-lowest total support damage of a full spell rotation, just above Braum

See above.

  • Weakest heal in the game

Her heal is increased by 0.5% for every 1% of target's missing health. So at high health, it is the weakest, but at low health, it is one of the better heals in the game.

  • Weakest and shortest-duration shield of all supports

It's a shield COMBINED with the heal. Jesus, how OP do you want her abilities to be?

  • Only support w/o hard CC pre-6

Karma has a snare, which is pretty easy to avoid. That's it for her. Morg only has a snare as well. Nunu has no hard CC at all. Soraka's silence is hardly hard CC since you can easily avoid or walk out of it in about a quarter second. Tahm has to get THREE stacks on you (with at least two being AAs) before he can hard CC someone. Zyra has a snare which is pretty easy to avoid as well.

Sorry, but I gladly take Sona's CC over any of those.

As you can see, ALL of the arguments saying that Sona is weak are basically complete BS.

http://www.kiffingish.com/images/470x336xlemmings-at-the-cliff.png.pagespeed.ic.KSRvMclHW5.jpg

Pika3104 votes

Here, this'll better help you understand what you are doing right now:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

only zhule4 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox Cassiopeia Chogath Ekko Fiddlesticks Gangplank Garen Gragas Graves Irelia Jinx Kalista Khazix Kindred LeeSin Lucian Lux MasterYi Mordekaiser Nidalee Pantheon Poppy Quinn Rengar Riven Ryze Shaco Shen Skarner TahmKench Talon Teemo Tryndamere Twitch Vayne Veigar Vladimir Warwick XinZhao Yasuo Yorick Zed Zyra

All of those champs need nerfs, buffs, or reworks. Sona is pretty well balanced compared to any of them.

There are a few here that it's clear what the issue is. Poppy has horrible numbers because she would be impossible to deal with otherwise (that ultimate). Trynd is another case of clear issues.

But for many of the other ones, lets also not count those marksmen already being worked on, could you give a better idea of what you find the issue to be? Just saying that over 40 champions need work doesn't give much to go off of.

Lugg3 votes

Aatrox, Cass, Ekko, Irelia, Jinx, Kalista, Lee Sin, Yi, Nid, Quinn, Riven, Ryze, Tahm, Trynx, Twitch, Vlad, Yorick,Xin, and Yas have always had balance problems. Whether it be from overloaded kits or just bad design.

With the latest buffs, Cho, GP, Garen, Lux, Shen, Veigar, and Zed are now OP and need nerfing.

Fiddle, Graves, K6, Lucian, Panth, Teemo could all use buffs.

only zhule6 votes

{quoted}

Aatrox, Cass, Ekko, Irelia, Jinx, Kalista, Lee Sin, Yi, Nid, Quinn, Riven, Ryze, Tahm, Trynx, Twitch, Vlad, Yorick,Xin, and Yas have always had balance problems. Whether it be from overloaded kits or just bad design.

With the latest buffs, Cho, GP, Garen, Lux, Shen, Veigar, and Zed are now OP and need nerfing.

Fiddle, Graves, K6, Lucian, Panth, Teemo could all use buffs.

Hey look you explained nothing and just continued to offer vague generalizations about champions.

Eridu2 votes

[deleted]

Atuko14 votes

I respect your opinion, but honestly these types of responses every time I make a Sona thread are getting pretty tiring. I understand you like it, but not everyone enjoys this playstyle. Do you notice that you literally have to build full AP for Sona to even be slightly useful? What kind of support is that? You can't even build support items on Sona due to how AP hungry her kit is, THIS is the problem

"Sona's fine because she can one shot someone"

Sona is not fine at all, one, an AOE aura buff support should not be relied on for just "bursting" someone, and plus if you even dare try to burst anyone late game you just get blown up in a matter of seconds because you're a piece of paper.

Two, like I said up there, all of her other abilities are underwhelming, her Q is fine, but her heal/shield and her speed boost are bad, it's like everyone simply forgets that these two abilities exist

It should NOT be all about her Q, Sona being a damage bot is literally not fine at all.

I want to feel like I'm actually helping out my team, through utility, not just simply damage. What use is damage if you get behind?

Secret Butt Fun2 votes

They could just revert the Sona W nerf and increase the health regeneration ratio back to 2% missing health and lower mana cost.

I play a lot of Sona, and honestly, the real power of her kit is not precisely her W, E, or even Q, but using that amazing passive of her's. This awareness separates the bad keyboard smashing Sonas from the good ones. An E empowered AA slows for so damn long, it's basically another exhaust. The same applies to a W empowered AA; if you are fast, you can hinder an assassin's attempt on your ADC entirely by waving good bye to all of their damage. Don't get me started on Q empowered AA.

I main Sona, and I might have an unpopular opinion, but I feel like she's fine mostly. A little polishing in her W would be nice though.

Consider this; she has an AoE shield and single target heal. item 3504 is SO good on her because she can give the buff to everyone. Getting a item 3116 inflicts constant, massive slows with her Q. There's more than just Lich Bane and Ludens to make her a good support.

only zhule3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Butt Fun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djomfj1W,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2015-10-30T17:37:00.314+0000)

They could just revert the Sona W nerf and increase the health regeneration ratio back to 2% missing health and lower mana cost.

I play a lot of Sona, and honestly, the real power of her kit is not precisely her W, E, or even Q, but using that amazing passive of her's. This awareness separates the bad keyboard smashing Sonas from the good ones. An E empowered AA slows for so damn long, it's basically another exhaust. The same applies to a W empowered AA; if you are fast, you can hinder an assassin's attempt on your ADC entirely by waving good bye to all of their damage. Don't get me started on Q empowered AA.

I main Sona, and I might have an unpopular opinion, but I feel like she's fine mostly. A little polishing in her W would be nice though.

Consider this; she has an AoE shield and single target heal. item 3504 is SO good on her because she can give the buff to everyone. Getting a item 3116 inflicts constant, massive slows with her Q. There's more than just Lich Bane and Ludens to make her a good support.

You forgot the thing that would really help her the most. Which is better aura range. I'm not talking going back to 1000 range, but just imagine playing her with 500-550 aura range. Enough so you don't need to be front line to help, but small enough there are still some risks around it.

Pika3104 votes

550 range would still make Sona the shortest-ranged support in the entire game, tying Soraka's 1 ability with an entire 3 of her own. For Sona's secondary actives to be anywhere near viable in terms of range requires MINIMUM of 600 units, if not more.

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

550 range would still make Sona the shortest-ranged support in the entire game, tying Soraka's 1 ability with an entire 3 of her own. For Sona's secondary actives to be anywhere near viable in terms of range requires MINIMUM of 600 units, if not more.

Can't give it to much range, or you risk making her too safe which likely means more nerfs for other areas.

I would love to see it at 600, but i think i could deal with 550. I would really just like to avoid having to be in basically melee range to apply my buffs.

Also interested to see how the changes for supports will effect her. Apparently they are getting a mana regen boost. Hopefully this will help off set her underwhelming heal.

Pika3104 votes

600 range is no more safe than any tank support with team effects: Braum, Thresh, Taric, et cetera. When I said support, I meant ALL supports in the game, not just mage supports. This minimum would literally give her the same amount of safety that tank supports have, I don't exaggerate when I say her current spells offer her less safety in her positioning than even tank supports get. As things are right now, she matter-of-factly needs to be nearly twice as close to the teamfight as Taric does to help out her teammates.

I honestly think 700 range is what would actually give her the safety a mage support requires and that would match the range on Hymn's primary active, so there's that to consider too.

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

600 range is no more safe than any tank support with team effects: Braum, Thresh, Taric, et cetera. When I said support, I meant ALL supports in the game, not just mage supports. This minimum would literally give her the same amount of safety that tank supports have, I don't exaggerate when I say her current spells offer her less safety in her positioning than even tank supports get. As things are right now, she matter-of-factly needs to be nearly twice as close to the teamfight as Taric does to help out her teammates.

I honestly think 700 range is what would actually give her the safety a mage support requires and that would match the range on Hymn's primary active, so there's that to consider too.

I worry at 700 range she's too safe. i'm pretty sure that much range means you never have to worry about being near a fight unless you want to add your damage to the mix. Her movement speed buff isn't good but i think at that range you have a greater then 75% chance of out running almost any champion.

Pika3104 votes

...and yet other mage supports can stay at even greater distances from the fight while still sporting better mobility, MS and boosts than Sona gets. 700 range still factually makes her the riskiest mage support, before even considering she's the 2nd-squishiest of them all, but at the very least she'll have better safety than(some) tank supports. The numbers are there, you need only acknowledge them:

  • Nami: W - 725 range; E - 800
  • Janna: E - 600 range; P - 1100
  • Karma: E - 800 range
  • Lulu: W - 650 range; E - 650
  • Morgana: E - 750 range
  • Thresh: W - 950 RANGE
  • Braum: W - 625 range
  • Taric: Q - 750 range; W - 1100
Secret Butt Fun2 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djomfj1W,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2015-10-30T20:58:22.804+0000)

You forgot the thing that would really help her the most. Which is better aura range. I'm not talking going back to 1000 range, but just imagine playing her with 500-550 aura range. Enough so you don't need to be front line to help, but small enough there are still some risks around it.

I don't really see aura range as an issue. If you're too far away, you won't be close enough to do other things like using your actives, exhausting relevant enemies, or even being close enough to Q.

Personally, I don't play like a little pussy and heal from afar, but help my ADC get in their face and burst those suckers down. Like I said, Sona's strength lies in your ability to correctly use her skill empowered AA passive, and you're not AAing if you're playing safe.

If you want to heal people from afar with safety, play Soraka .

only zhule6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Scary Butt Fun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=djomfj1W,comment-id=001900000001,timestamp=2015-11-01T19:32:51.183+0000)

I don't really see aura range as an issue. If you're too far away, you won't be close enough to do other things like using your actives, exhausting relevant enemies, or even being close enough to Q.

Personally, I don't play like a little pussy and heal from afar, but help my ADC get in their face and burst those suckers down. Like I said, Sona's strength lies in your ability to correctly use her skill empowered AA passive, and you're not AAing if you're playing safe.

If you want to heal people from afar with safety, play Soraka .

Hey look another person who fails to understand the issue. It's not about having Soraka levels of heals. It's about not having to kiss the cheek of each ally you help with all your skills. It's about the fact that her heal as it stands is god awful in the early game. You should not need to have both your ally and yourself be below 40% health to beat the mana cost to health returned ratio.

You comment about bursting the enemy down. Because that is super easy against most tanky supports, or enemy ADC's who are smart enough to force you to over extend each time you want to do a reasonable poke.

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