A reminder of when League used to be great

ShinkoMinori·Jun 17, 2016·76 votes·5,246 views

Do you remember this moment? for me is the most passionate moment of League of Legends, so far I haven't seen anything of this magnitude after season 3.

Why is Riot watering down its game? Now a matches end at 20-25 minutes... even at 10 minutes when one side is super fed since the turrets are really weak and its so easy to snowball by Riot design. Riot is going for the lowest common denominator.

The game is either one stomp on one side or the other and it doesn't feel like even trying anymore. I used to never surrender and fight until the nexus is destroyed. But when you encounter a fed Darius or a fed Ryze and a team thats 1 whole rank below you or even unranked whats the point anymore? its impossible to outplay and they will only keep taking objectives until you lose. I surrender at 20 most of the times now, whats the point?

Is this what Riot wants with its game? meaningless matches to cross fingers that you got the good premade? Is it true that the game has gone downhill since season 3?

100 Comments

Maximum ZileanJun 17, 201618 votes

To be honest. I can't remember the last time I actually had fun with this game... Heck I barely even login anymore.

NíbbaBíbbaJun 17, 201613 votes

each season had its own broken as sht champ and mechanics. The only part about the earlier seasons is that people didn't bitch and whine about it and look back to the "good old days".

MonkeyMadnessJun 17, 20167 votes

Well, back in season 2 and 3, Riot seemed to be a very benevolent company that focused on making the best gaming experience that they could for their community, who in turn responded with a great deal of support and dedication.

Now, Riot is a stereotypical greedy company that puts its profits ahead of customer satisfaction and has no problem forsaking large groups of players if they think it will increase their bottom line. They are effectively the EA of the MOBA world.

rtbf225618241Jun 17, 20168 votes

One word:Tencent.

It controls Riot's monetary content and is responsible for putting money ahead of quality.

VoidreyJun 17, 20163 votes

I don't really believe the whole "Chinese Overlord" conspiray, just people trying to find a reason for riots crappy choices lately

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

And there you have it: Dynamic Queue = communism. QED.

In all honesty though, I have a feeling that Tencent has better things to worry about than balance changes in League. It really sounds like the only reason they bought it was for legal issues on the Chinese end (note: can't say I'm an expert on Chinese internet laws, but it's obvious that they are a lot stricter than ours).

Also, Tencent owns a majority, they don't own the entire company. Which means they don't get full authority even if they wanted it. Not to mention, Riot's management has not changed due to the purchase, so I'm guessing that means the creative process was left intact.

rtbf225618241Jun 18, 20161 votes

They're not doing the balance changes, just the monetary ones such as Hextech crafting, Chroma packs, Splash Art unifications, censorship (though that may be for other reasons that just Tencent) and skins.

Actually, they own all of it. In early 2011, Tencent bought the majority stake in Riot Games but in 2015, Riot sold it's remaining equity aswell.

So if Tencent wanted, they could turn League of Legends into the next Call of Duty if they wanted to. They just don't interfere with it on any other level than money income.

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

Didn't know about that but I did a bit of research and you seem correct about the ownership.

Also I love how you brought up Chroma packs. Not related to the topic at all, but isn't it hilarious how Chroma packs have basically stopped? First and only time Riot has truly rolled back one of its initiatives that was utterly shit, and they didn't even give us the courtesy of fucking telling us about it. Such trash.

rtbf225618241Jun 18, 20161 votes

They actually said they weren't just fulfilling for that bullshit price. I think they'll introduce something similar that allows us to color our champs but in a different system propably.

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

Hopefully. I did like the idea of the customization, but it was horrendously hypocritical of them to go on that spree of retiring "outdated skins" that they claimed were simple "recolors" and not up to the standards of modern skins only to sell Chroma packs, which is really just a politically correct translation of "recolors".

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 17, 20162 votes

I'm not really seeing it. I'll bet in season 3 people cried this much too though

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

No not really. There just wasn't that much to cry about back then. They had just put the League system into effect (instead of a straight elo system) which was really nice, and they were just coming off a crapload of new champion releases that made the game really fresh and exciting. Now with new champs coming out only every 2 to 3 months, the game tends to get stale, and with the de-evolution of ranked the incentive to play has gone way down for the competitive portion of the community.

EROTIC RAID BOSSJun 18, 20161 votes

Pfft like ranked is any different practically speaking. You people are such babies

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

You are silver. Trust me, when you start seeing the shit going on in plat and up (and even in gold) you will understand the reason for these complaints. Bronze and silver really aren't much different than previous seasons. DQ causes more problems the higher you go.

Also, if you think we are being "babies" then you must not understand the concept of principle. This system may not statistically be that much different than last season, but all of these unfair issues are possible and do all occur at some (even if only minimal) level, making the system shit on principle.

FantasySniperJun 17, 20168 votes

The community is toxic and the balance is shit. I used to look forward to climbing in rank, but after getting near Plat it just feels like there's no fun in it anymore. I've basically given up on any hope for LoL. The fact that I now own Overwatch (of which Blizzard surprisingly knows how to balance it) only makes me less likely to fill my free time with a game of league. The moment I finish modding Skyrim is the moment I'll probably delete the shortcut for LoL on my desktop.

Weiner the PoohJun 17, 20163 votes

Blizzard knows how to balance it? The game is balanced solely around the top tier (which is a terrible idea) and on top of that their first balance patch completely guts Widowmaker and Mccree, I give them 5 months before the game is ruined.

FantasySniperJun 17, 20165 votes

Do you even play it? Mccree and Widowmaker deserved their nerfs.

Weiner the PoohJun 17, 20161 votes

Yes I play and they really didn't. It's almost impossible;e for Mccree to kill a tank and that was their goal, make it ultra difficult for him to do so, that's not balance.

Voluug13Jun 17, 20163 votes

Probably because he has a ludicrously easy time killing anything that ISNT a tank?

Weiner the PoohJun 17, 20162 votes

Now he struggles to barely even kill reaper

FantasySniperJun 18, 20161 votes

That's what's supposed to happen. If he doesn't land the flashbang, he shouldn't have a chance against someone who out-damages him in immediate range.

Weiner the PoohJun 18, 20161 votes

even with flashbang if one shot misses hes dead.

jeanne mulaneyJun 17, 20162 votes

Completely gutted? Hardly.

Widowmaker, a sniper, was able to one-shot bodyshot kill three characters in the game (Un-meched D.Va, Tracer, and Zenyatta). Not only that, but her ability to quickly charge a shot made it incredibly easy for her to very quickly bodyshot many other characters to death. Basically she had a sniper's damage and range without the drawback of actually having to get head shots. The changes Blizzard made were simple and effective. They reduced bodyshot damage to 120 (so she no longer one shots those three characters) and made her scoping slightly slower. She still does good damage, has strong mobility, and is possibly in need of even more work. You saying she was "gutted" is a joke.

McCree? He was, across the board from professional to casual play, regarded as an unbalanced menace. With the damage on his Fan the Hammer he was able to successfully duel quite literally every hero in the game. Using his combo of Flashbang/Fan the Hammer/roll/Fan the Hammer he could 100 to 0 the majority of the cast before they even got a chance to properly react. How did they fix this? Without touching his roll or Flashbang they reduced his Fan the Hammer damage. They didn't nerf it into the ground, they just lowered it enough that McCree players actually have to hit all their shots from Fan the Hammer to get a reliable kill (not hard if you Flashbang first) and lowered the damage enough that a tank could ACTUALLY tank. Not only that, but they actually decreased his reload speed to compensate for the damage drop. Again, he's still perfectly viable.

The fact that you complain about these changes and call them "unbalanced" really only shows you either 1) don't play the game enough or 2) were really enjoying playing these unbalanced champs and are now salty that you actually have to learn some fundamentals to succeed on them.

Weiner the PoohJun 17, 20161 votes

Yes i played mostly them but not because they were easy wins or whatever. Mccree is a cowboy, there is literally no reason for him to not be played, and is a perfectly reasonable reason for him to be OP.

jeanne mulaneyJun 17, 20161 votes

I'm happy that you didn't even try to argue the points. Saved me a lot of time trying to figure out whether you were talking out of your ass or not. Thanks for that.

Weiner the PoohJun 17, 20161 votes

I mean, the main reason i started playing Mccree was because hes a cowboy and i was sad he got nerfed, ergo its bad balancing by blizzard.

jeanne mulaneyJun 17, 20161 votes

Yeah, that makes amazing sense. You liked the character, they got nerfed, so the balance is bad. It's really completely understandable. Very unbiased view that really changes my mind on this whole thing. Who cares about good counterplay when you can just have a 1v6ing cowboy?

FEDXSaiJun 17, 20167 votes

lose in 10 minutes?

ShinkoMinoriJun 17, 201636 votes

{quoted}

lose in 10 minutes?

at minute 10 you know who is gonna win, 0-12 and such.

FEDXSaiJun 17, 20165 votes

sounds like low elo probs. just focus drag since it snowballs you harder than anything else in this game now

ShinkoMinoriJun 17, 201624 votes

{quoted}

sounds like low elo probs. just focus drag since it snowballs you harder than anything else in this game now

You don't play much or watch streams do you?... or are you calling doublelift low elo lmao.

AírJun 17, 20167 votes

You are joking right? You understand that low elos tend to not have such snowbally games and it is easier to comeback, whereas high elo it is close to, if not downright, impossible. Games are shorter the higher the elo and more onesided. I speak from watching streams, looking up statistics and personal experience.

FEDXSaiJun 18, 2016

and the fact that this person doesn't know that proves that ranking system is fine with dynamic queue at low elos. the only reason i couldn't say this is because i do not play at high elo. and i think anyone seriously playing league looks up statistics and watches streams. look at the avg game time in the lcs tho and look at how back and forth those matches are. they arent decided in the first 10 minutes at the professional level. we just cant reach our maximum potential without increasing our teamwork and dynamic queue allows for that. granted, i dont like it at the moment but in the future i think it will affect teamwork in our ranked games. do you disagree with my statement on dragon and its snowball potential?

AírJun 18, 20161 votes

Generally, the first team to get dragons is the team that keeps getting dragons, at least at higher elos. Because it is generally too risky to try to sneak drag or steal afterwards. And usually the team with the kill advantage gets the dragons, making them even more impossible to kill.

And just an FYI, I never give up in a ranked game, I never do. There is always a chance that the enemy will throw. It is just extremely rare.

Also, the LCS matches are not that back and forth sadly. Sure, there may be one throw here and there but generally, it rarely results in a complete turn around for the losing team.

Especially if a team gets an inhib. Teams that get the first inhib of the game have a 90% chance of winning.

DarksideEricJun 17, 20162 votes

...the ever changing cycle:

Games last too long! 30+ min is too long for a game!

Games are too short! 20 min and it's already over!

Snowballing can be fun. Long games with 10 total kills can also be fun.

ShinkoMinoriJun 17, 20169 votes

Personally I like the 30-40 minute mark, past 40 is really dangerous, but knowing you lost/win in less than 20 minutes is ridiculous, getting into the game takes longer than that.

DarksideEricJun 17, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Personally I like the 30-40 minute mark, past 40 is really dangerous, but knowing you lost/win in less than 20 minutes is ridiculous, getting into the game takes longer than that.

You do realize that in many single and team based games you can often tell who has the better chance of winning early on, especially if the two single / teams aren't actually equal in skill? It's not something new for LoL or anything.

MonkeyMadnessJun 17, 20163 votes

"Chance" is the key word here. In previous seasons, even a team that is getting stomped can turn the game around with a clutch teamfight or baron steal. Now, with how snowbally the objective game gets, it's rather difficult to stage a true come-from-behind win without the enemy making a serious blunder or a series of blunders.

DarksideEricJun 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Chance" is the key word here. In previous seasons, even a team that is getting stomped can turn the game around with a clutch teamfight or baron steal. Now, with how snowbally the objective game gets, it's rather difficult to stage a true come-from-behind win without the enemy making a serious blunder or a series of blunders.

How is that any different from any other competitive game?

Street Fighter has LOADS of matches that have been lost because of one serious mistake. Name any team FPS, you'll find the same thing.

MonkeyMadnessJun 18, 20161 votes

You just compared apples to fucking steak tips. If that sounds ridiculous, that's because it is. League is an ENTIRELY different kind of game than the examples you just gave. If you make a mistake in Street Fighter, your opponent does not gain a power advantage over you, whereas in LoL, fucking up and dying will lead to a gold and experience gain for your enemy which will translate into an eventual item advantage which will help your opponent farm/kill you even more effectively, and the snowball keeps going. Also, please give me your best estimate as to how long each round in a Street Fighter match lasts. Is 30 seconds a fair assessment? I'm honestly not entirely sure, as I know very little about the competitive scene there. Needless to say, not even close to how long a game of LoL lasts (even a short one) and therefore, mistakes will be substantially more impactful, as there is SUBSTANTIALLY less time to recover from them.

Also, it seems like you missed the point. We aren't comparing League to other games, we are comparing League as it exists today to League as it existed in the past. And it has changed a lot. Don't bring in other games that we may not even know about just to try to make a point. Especially if those games aren't MOBAs.

DarksideEricJun 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You just compared apples to fucking steak tips. If that sounds ridiculous, that's because it is. League is an ENTIRELY different kind of game than the examples you just gave. If you make a mistake in Street Fighter, your opponent does not gain a power advantage over you, whereas in LoL, fucking up and dying will lead to a gold and experience gain for your enemy which will translate into an eventual item advantage which will help your opponent farm/kill you even more effectively, and the snowball keeps going. Also, please give me your best estimate as to how long each round in a Street Fighter match lasts. Is 30 seconds a fair assessment? I'm honestly not entirely sure, as I know very little about the competitive scene there. Needless to say, not even close to how long a game of LoL lasts (even a short one) and therefore, mistakes will be substantially more impactful, as there is SUBSTANTIALLY less time to recover from them.

Also, it seems like you missed the point. We aren't comparing League to other games, we are comparing League as it exists today to League as it existed in the past. And it has changed a lot. Don't bring in other games that we may not even know about just to try to make a point. Especially if those games aren't MOBAs.

You also seem to have missed the mention of FPS games...

You also seemed to have missed the original point:

League games have lasted less than 20 minutes in the past before and people complained. League games have lasted more than 40 minutes in the past before and people complained.

Welcome to the got damn cycle of competitive gaming, especially when there's one single main game type with the same gameplay over and over.

Teams will form a fast meta. Teams will then form a slow meta. Teams will then form a middle ground meta. Then the cycle will restart in whatever order it wants.

If you don't actually understand how or why this works, please stop talking.

"I miss LoL how it used to be!"

You seem to not actually understand "how LoL used to be".

MonkeyMadnessJun 21, 20161 votes

Because fps games follow the same pattern as Street Fighter, but it's more complicated to explain why, so I'll just save everyone the time and not go into detail. Fact is, there are no level advantages and no item builds in fps games, therefore to compare them to LoL is just plain dumb.

Regardless, you can't deny the fact that LoL has become increasingly snowbally of late, which is actually something that Riot has stated they would like to avoid. Tower advantage snowballs. Dragon advantage snowballs. Literally everything in the game snowballs, and it has gotten to the point where it is VERY difficult to make a comeback. This detracts from the really great moments in the game and thus leads to a stale environment.

Also, I never said either of things you quoted. I would appreciate if you would stop attempting to slander me and my argument by falsely attributing quotes to me.

DarksideEricJun 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Because fps games follow the same pattern as Street Fighter, but it's more complicated to explain why, so I'll just save everyone the time and not go into detail. Fact is, there are no level advantages and no item builds in fps games, therefore to compare them to LoL is just plain dumb.

Regardless, you can't deny the fact that LoL has become increasingly snowbally of late, which is actually something that Riot has stated they would like to avoid. Tower advantage snowballs. Dragon advantage snowballs. Literally everything in the game snowballs, and it has gotten to the point where it is VERY difficult to make a comeback. This detracts from the really great moments in the game and thus leads to a stale environment.

Also, I never said either of things you quoted. I would appreciate if you would stop attempting to slander me and my argument by falsely attributing quotes to me.

There are no item builds in FPS games?

You don't really know FPS games, do you? In many FPS games, different weapons / perks exist, which is another form of an item build on a more generic level.

I'm not denying any fact, what I have stated (multiple times now) is that this is par for the course. People complained when the game was snowbally in the past, people complained when the game was 40+ minutes long in the past. Do I need to state the actual point yet again?

I would appreciate it if you knew more about video games, or at least competitive video games, in general before you jump on the train we're on. It's just plain dumb to not recognize the similarities between FPS and MOBA games, especially on a competitive level, and just plain dumb to complain about a snowball meta like it's some new thing.

MonkeyMadnessJun 23, 20161 votes

Call of Duty 4, Call of Duty World at War, Call of Duty: MW 2, Call of Duty Black Ops, Halo 3, Halo Reach, a bit of Halo 4, and now Overwatch. And those are only the online era fps games I've played. I'd say I've played quite a few shooters, and literally NONE of them (except Overwatch) bear ANY resemblance to mobas AT ALL. What you are talking about, loadouts and perks and skills and what not, that's like choosing runes/masteries and summoner spells. It is literally NOTHING like building items using gold farmed in game. NOTHING. AT. ALL. Stop trying to use these rather weak comparisons to slander my arguments. It is YOU who should know more about gaming, not I.

DarksideEricJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Call of Duty 4, Call of Duty World at War, Call of Duty: MW 2, Call of Duty Black Ops, Halo 3, Halo Reach, a bit of Halo 4, and now Overwatch. And those are only the online era fps games I've played. I'd say I've played quite a few shooters, and literally NONE of them (except Overwatch) bear ANY resemblance to mobas AT ALL. What you are talking about, loadouts and perks and skills and what not, that's like choosing runes/masteries and summoner spells. It is literally NOTHING like building items using gold farmed in game. NOTHING. AT. ALL. Stop trying to use these rather weak comparisons to slander my arguments. It is YOU who should know more about gaming, not I.

And this is why you really shouldn't be in this conversation, because it was stated that those are on a generic level.

Not to mention that there's constantly items to fight for, and lose, on the map. Rocket Launchers, vehicles, power ups, etc, etc all factor into the "item building" that you don't understand the core concept that you don't understand.

Never mind the fact that in games like Counter Strike (which you've not played), you upgrade your weapons through money that you earn round to round.

Never mind the fact that in FPS games, when you upgrade to better items (such as Rocket Launchers on the map), you can die and have that advantage taken from you. Not only is this a basic concept of item upgrade, but a combination of buffing as well.

Seriously, you've only played CoD, Halo and Overwatch and you think you know what you're talking about?

And to state, again, the actual point was that this back and forth swinging of snowball to slow to mid to snowball to mid to slow to snowball and repeat over and over, is not a new thing. Not for any competitive games, and certainly not for LoL. LoL was snowbally before, it will be snowbally again in the future, just like it's been slow before and will be slow again in the future.

So... why are you in this conversation again?

MonkeyMadnessJun 24, 20161 votes

Kid. Either you are going full retard at this point, or you are literally just too stubborn to admit defeat. These items that you are talking about in shooters are not even on the same level as League. Reason being: YOU DON'T NEED TO FARM GOLD IN ORDER TO BUY THEM. Shooters are by DEFINITION not snowbally games, and any team can make plays regardless of how previous fights have gone, because winning fights in a shooter DO NOT give either team a power advantage. Another difference between picking up the rocket launcher in Halo and buying items in League is that you lose the rocket launcher on death, and someone else can usually pick it up. Imagine if when you died in LoL, you dropped all your items and how radically different that would make the game. Stop comparing LoL to other games that aren't mobas. There is literally no valid comparison you could ever possibly make. None.

DarksideEricJun 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Kid. Either you are going full retard at this point, or you are literally just too stubborn to admit defeat. These items that you are talking about in shooters are not even on the same level as League. Reason being: YOU DON'T NEED TO FARM GOLD IN ORDER TO BUY THEM. Shooters are by DEFINITION not snowbally games, and any team can make plays regardless of how previous fights have gone, because winning fights in a shooter DO NOT give either team a power advantage. Another difference between picking up the rocket launcher in Halo and buying items in League is that you lose the rocket launcher on death, and someone else can usually pick it up. Imagine if when you died in LoL, you dropped all your items and how radically different that would make the game. Stop comparing LoL to other games that aren't mobas. There is literally no valid comparison you could ever possibly make. None.

Aaaaaand this is how you prove you shouldn't be in the conversation.

Counter Strike alone proves you wrong with requiring players to farm gold through kills and actions to upgrade at the start of a new round.

If you truly believe shooters can't be snowbally... maybe you weren't all that good at them, considering that if a team was good enough and could rush to power weapons and positions well enough and control them, they could quite literally spawn camp which is the hardest definition of a snowball. Seriously, how are you unaware of this in shooters? Being so in control that you can literally spawn camp the opposing team for X minutes at a time is the epitome of snowballing because at that point the game is practically all but over.

"Winning fights in a shooter DO NOT give either team a power advantage."

AHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Oh man... damn... that's... wow. Just... damn. Conversation over right there.

"Winning fights in a shooter DO NOT give either team a power advantage."

I didn't know you could be so dumb but.... there it is.

And to call me "kid" when you've only played since CoD 4. Fuckin' lol.

MonkeyMadnessJun 24, 20161 votes

so perhaps Counter Strike is an exception, but if you read the list of shooters that I've played, literally none of them confer power advantages for winning fights. Perhaps they give you objective time, but this is absolutely not a power advantage. Learn basic vocabulary here and stop twisting my words to satisfy your blatantly incorrect arguments.

Also if I were a betting man I'd bet on me being older than you. Not that it actually matters but you did bring age into this sooooo (fyi "kid" is not age related, but maturity related, and your maturity IS in question based on the fact that you have no ability to lose a debate with grace).

DarksideEricJun 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

so perhaps Counter Strike is an exception, but if you read the list of shooters that I've played, literally none of them confer power advantages for winning fights. Perhaps they give you objective time, but this is absolutely not a power advantage. Learn basic vocabulary here and stop twisting my words to satisfy your blatantly incorrect arguments.

Also if I were a betting man I'd bet on me being older than you. Not that it actually matters but you did bring age into this sooooo (fyi "kid" is not age related, but maturity related, and your maturity IS in question based on the fact that you have no ability to lose a debate with grace).

"Literally none of them confer power advantages for winning fights"...

Except the transfer of power weapons like rockets, how you don't understand that such is a power advantage is beyond me. Never mind the fact that in Call of Duty, WHICH YOU HAVE PLAYED, has Kill Streaks. If you don't think getting a Kill Streak for winning fights is a power advantage... you're incredibly dumb. I read the list of shooters you've played, which is 3 out of dozens. You've never played Counter Strike, TRIBES, Quake, Unreal, Perfect Dark, Shadowrun, etc, etc, etc, etc.

When did I bring age into this?

And you STILL have not refuted the actual point in the conversation, which brings your maturity into question because I tried to steer the conversation BACK to the original point and since you keep ignoring it... I think we know who loses without grace.

So, I'll ask again: Why are you even in this conversation when you know so little about video games?

XyphlesJun 18, 20161 votes

I had a game i knew we were gona lose last 1 hour and it tilted me harder than anything because my team refused to ff and the carry on their side kept getting fed without ending lol