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Unpopular Opinion: Pantheon's rework was great but balance wise, he's pretty weak.

Famous Gay Actor·8/19/2019, 6:55:36 PM·9 votes·4,562 views

If you look at what Pantheon is required to do to remain relevant and how Riot gates his ability to play the game with his abilities, you see this disconnect. He has such high cooldowns it's not even fun to play him because you know that once you engage, you're basically hoping to God that the enemy doesn't outdamage you. Champions like Darius, Fiora, Illaoi, etc. still give him a pretty hard time. He does ok into Illaoi because he can prevent himself from taking damage from her hitting his spirit but after that, he's incredibly boned. If you ask me I think you should reduce the cooldowns of his E, W and Q. They're just too high for him to be this guy who wants to be a baker IRL. Like shave off a few seconds in the early game. Late game they're fine but his early game (which used to be what you picked him for) is so bad that it doesn't matter anymore.

UPDATE #1: I actually didn't expect this post to generate as much good conversation as it did, thanks guys. It was a lot of fun to read all of your comments (as well as to respond to a few of them to keep the discussion going).

A little bit of clarification on my original post. I understand that most people don't believe Pantheon needs a buff in the form of higher numbers and I agree. I don't believe his numbers are an issue. The biggest issue for him that gates him from being what he was intended to be is the cooldowns on his Q. It would be nice to not have his poke gated by such a cooldown as 10 seconds if you choose to throw the spear.

33 Comments

Ćold As Ice8/19/2019, 7:05:24 PM5 votes

His problem is that his scaling suggests him to build full Ad, while he is unreliable assassin that has a hard time enagging on ADC's which makes him kiteable, and his optimal bruiser build for late game playstyle does not synergize well with his ONLY BONUS AD SCALINGS.

My suggestion is rebalancing his BONUS AD scalings to total AD scalings, and giving him either some minor sustain, or %hp damage, or tankyness stat scaling

The Kombinator8/19/2019, 9:37:48 PM2 votes

So basically play the usual CD's are in the past style.

Like pretty much all champions lately. No CD on anything, that can't block out a full ultimate, or is an ultimate itself.

I haven't played it yet, but i think Riot simply should figure out what's his role right now.

Assassin style: Zed has 515% total AD ratio, and 390 flat damage at lvl18. Pantheon has 385 to 585%, and 1330 flat damage total (though 700 from it is his ult, and that is something incredibly easy to avoid). And he got some AP ratios.

Worst scenario to panth: he jumps a full health mobile guy. Using E for full damage is not possible. Best right away reactivate to deal the slam damage, before stun ends. In this case the total AD ratio is somewhere between 385, and 485. Depending on how much health he left when Q hits.

Best scenario: non mobile enemy get caught, and everything hits, then use Q while enemy is under 25%.

Problem is, that enemies, that are not mobile are usually not that easy to kill, or protected by a support.

Mage goes since his AP ratios are way too low.

He got some tankiness from the Aegis Assault, but not really full tank since got 0 ratios from defensive stats in general.

His base cooldowns are above average. So some CDR is heavily recommended.

To be honest i think, that most champions got too low CD, and not Panth too big. But if we balance him to others, then his CDs should be reduced.

Right now there is not one thing, that would put him above the average. In fact he is more like below it. The only "joker card" is his aegis which can tank out a whole teamfight, but beyond that he is nothing serious. No super strong burst damage, no extreme sustained damage, not even great mobility.

Beside the CDR they should get rid of the AP ratios, or make them into values, that are useful, or put them into stuff where they would make more sense to have it. Right now i see 0 reason to build AP. His AP ratio is 200%, and entirely used for damage. LB has 320%, Lux has 250% on damage, and 60% on defense, Kennen 375%, Katarina 415%. So while his AD is almost good as an Assassin's his AP is nowhere near to the full AP champs, and damn far from the close range AP champs.

Ahri Baka8/19/2019, 7:09:45 PM1 votes

Nope he isn't weak He was just released Why do you guys keep doing the same mistake again and again? You called Aatrox bad , you called Yuumi weak and troll pick . both champions ended up as Meta champions , not only that , but both champions had lower winrate than Panth's current winrate give him some time.

Tychusfindlay9188/19/2019, 8:11:07 PM1 votes

His new aegis is INSANELY powerful against a lot of matchups and particularly against high burst assassins.

I'd be weary of buffing him quickly with his aegis being the kind of tool it is.

munguskiller8/19/2019, 9:56:00 PM1 votes

i just went 17/2 first game as him lol

Apocalypsic8/20/2019, 12:03:38 AM1 votes

Pantheon's best role is jungle now.

Makarakarn8/20/2019, 8:47:12 PM1 votes

Remember how many times we've said "Hey look how weak this champ is!" then without even being buffed much people learn how to play them and everyone hates them?
On this episode of "Boards user calls a somewhat popular opinion unpopular"

Divin1ty8/19/2019, 6:56:46 PM1 votes

Fiora gives every Toplaner a hard Time, lol. And Pantheon is just played wrong, try using only your melee Q for Harass/Waveclear and you have a pretty easy Time.

Kitsunes Lust10/12/2019, 12:57:24 AM1 votes

He feels really weird to be honest. His reccomended build is assassin, but yet he struggles to assassinate. He shows bruiser characteristics, but isnt nessesarily a bruiser. And theres mixed builds and runes going on with this. Some go conq others go PTA few go electrocute. Some go inspiration, some go resolve, some go domination. To be honest, it feels like he doesnt really have an identity, and is stuck between assassin and bruiser/skirmisher. But yeah his CDs are a bit high. I will agree

skills of luck8/19/2019, 6:59:18 PM1 votes

Just give it some time, I'm pretty sure the most optimal way to play/ build him hasn't been completely figured out yet. Every time riot does a panic buff it's been a balancing disaster.