Why I Quit Bot Lane

Brain Errör 404·Nov 2, 2016·65 votes·4,799 views

You're doing well? Keeping up in CS? Staying even? Not feeding kills?

You have a lead? An advantage? Abusing the hell out of the enemy team?

About to start a fight? All of a sudden you see 2 extra people aside from the enemy team and support? Your team doesn't follow up or focus the parallel objective to try and punish that 4 man?

I'm so tired of being bot and getting 4 manned for no reason. If you play safe? 4 manned. If you play aggro? 4 manned. If you freeze wave by your tower? 4 manned.

It's like a great, big, ballsy orgy down there and you have no control over whether you're the taker or the receiver.

120 Comments

notice me Sin piNov 2, 201631 votes

rito logic: (patch 5.22) to give junglers a reason to be at top lane and not just bot lane, we will add [Rift Herald] by the baron pit, making the game a bit more symmetric. (patch 6.15) But to stop players from tower-trading at lv1, we will add [Turret First blood] and make bot lane tower squishier, which should make the game less symmetric and have bot lane get 4-manned 24/7.

Critmaster GarenNov 2, 201615 votes

[{quoted}](name=SAO T1 Yui,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cpjnOWUE,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-11-02T14:14:43.819+0000)

rito logic: (patch 5.22) to give junglers a reason to be at top lane and not just bot lane, we will add [Rift Herald] by the baron pit, making the game a bit more symmetric. (patch 6.15) But to stop players from tower-trading at lv1, we will add [Turret First blood] and make bot lane tower squishier, which should make the game less symmetric and have bot lane get 4-manned 24/7.

^ exactly this.

XeruonNov 2, 20168 votes

Riot just can't decide if they want their game snowbally or not for some reason.

HeeroTXNov 2, 20163 votes

Riot want LC$BigPlays, and early game Tower trades are not BigPlays!

SpecterVonBarenNov 2, 20162 votes

No one likes watching early game tower trades, not just Riot.

TalisidNov 3, 20161 votes

Don't get me wrong, the bot lane 4-5 man teamfights are annoying as hell but most of them occur post-10 minutes when the 'fortification' bonus that was removed from the bot tower is already long gone on every other tower on the map as well.

Critmaster GarenNov 2, 201619 votes

youre not 4 manned for no reason. youre 4 manned for that 400 global gold turret first blood, because riot thought it would be a great idea to make the entire early game focused around bot lane.

believe me, i hate it aswell. because it makes a game bloody hard to carry from top lane. with the increased teleport animation time, the opportunity to roam down there and have an impact is very rare nowdays. so games are in a lot of cases straight up decided without you.

either your bot/jungle/mid lane wins a fight like you described, or it loses the same way. the outcome of that fight often already decides the game.

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 201610 votes

I mean, I know exactly why I'm getting 4 manned. Doesn't make it any less annoying, lol.

JDB8eoX8x0Nov 2, 201611 votes

Love the mentality in the comments. "It's your fault for not warding!" "It's your support's fault for being a retard!"

Guys, guys.

Guys...

Guys.

No.

It's not anyone's fault except for Riot's in this case. Right now, bot lane is a treasure cave full of gold and loot to harvest. Just by successfully ganking bottom lane, you get TWO kills for free AND a free drake. It's not the support's fault for being unable to fend off 4 people, it's Riot's fault for giving the map absolutely no other interesting objectives.

Who in their right mind cares about Rift Herald right now? It was supposed to make top lane interesting for Junglers again, but all it does is feed the ego of top laners even more by providing them with a solo buff. It doesn't help your team in general, it only helps one lane and it's not even such an overwhelming buff. At this point, I can't tell the difference between a Herald buff top laner and a normal top laner, because there is no noticable difference.

Before we go ahead and blame the Supports or ADCs all the time, let's first take a look at the current objectives.

Herald - Only spawns once, mediocre, temporary and solo buff. - Near Top Lane with only 1 kill to get. Drake - Spawns every 5 minutes, useful, permanent team buff. - Near Bottom Lane with 2 kills to get!

Can you blame anyone for camping Bottom Lane when Riot doesn't try to make every part of the map equally interesting? Why don't they take the approach they took with drake and turn it into a 5 minute respawn permanent buff that will despawn once the timer hits 20 minutes? Or maybe delay Baron by 5 minutes and make it 25? That way, the Jungle would have to decide between getting the top lane buff and the bottom lane buff, and it would also be easier for your team to punish the enemy team's four man slaughter on bottom lane because they could rush up to Herald and get a free stack of whatever that buff would provide to them - Damage resistance?

Adore DelánoNov 2, 20168 votes

Eh...

I think bot's annoying because you're more at the mercy of your team. If they don't respond to the inevitable pressure that's going to come bot lane you'll be overwhelmed. Even if you don't feed you'll have to give up objectives (and probably get flamed). And that's on top of having to work so closely with the support or ADC. And unless you're a cheeky Blitzcrank/Thresh or Twitch/Jhin or something, it's pretty hard for you to roam up and help a struggling mid lane. There are more games where you play well bot and lose anyway than any other lane in my opinion; it feels like you have to really pound the enemy bot hard and fast (whoops, phrasing) to get into carry mode more so than the other roles.

Just how I been feeling about it lately though.

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 20163 votes

I find this to be true as well.

CrazyBear1987Nov 2, 20167 votes

No control? you can use your trinket ward, i think if your biggest problem is mid and jungle ganking, then you need to start warding.

Getting vision will help your team know that enemies are heading for you. keep communication open.

Ping enemy missing, have map awareness, and ward yourself to protect you from mid game ganks.

But if your still going to quit, wouldn't blame you, Bot lane is unforgiving.

LXIINov 2, 201621 votes

The problem with this is that it doesn't matter if you see them coming. Best case you leave and they take your turret while your team gets nothing in return, then they can 4 man mid and just power shove on you.

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 201627 votes

I'm not saying I always die to the 4 man... it's just that I constantly get 4 manned and it ain't fun. Especially when their mid laner/jgler is fed.

BradflyNov 2, 20162 votes

This happens to me all the time in ranked.

Nami in BushNov 2, 20167 votes

{quoted}

No control? you can use your trinket ward, i think if your biggest problem is mid and jungle ganking, then you need to start warding.

Getting vision will help your team know that enemies are heading for you. keep communication open.

Ping enemy missing, have map awareness, and ward yourself to protect you from mid game ganks.

But if your still going to quit, wouldn't blame you, Bot lane is unforgiving.

I wasnt aware that warding stopped ganks and teleports

LauchmelderNov 2, 20161 votes

That's true, but common sense and a bit of brain can result in not dieing to it.

Nami in BushNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cpjnOWUE,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2016-11-02T15:13:10.425+0000)

That's true, but common sense and a bit of brain can result in not dieing to it.

Wards don't stop a lane gank when you are pushed to tower. Wards don't stop you from being dove. Wards don't stop the enemy from teleporting and diving. Wards don't stop a TF, Pantheon, Bard, Kench, Taliyah, or Eve.

LauchmelderNov 4, 20161 votes

Wards give you vision to see if you get ganked in advance. TF, Panth, Kench, Taliyah Ults are a thing, but why shouldn't they get rewarded for using a high cooldown ability?

Eve gets countered by pinkwards right now (won't be in preseason). Bards ult can be stepped out of unless he is directly on top of you.

People in the bottom side of the map tend to only ward: River brush, tribrush and maybe a lane brush. Here's a simple quote from some youtuber (not sure if it was foxdrop, Jeremy or someone else):

The river brush ward is a "Hey you're dead" ward. Any competent jungler can just run through it and gank you regardless because you saw him too late.

~~But like I can see downvoting logical posts and whining about ganks is easier than trying to counterplay it.~~

Nami in BushNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cpjnOWUE,comment-id=00000002000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-04T08:28:08.944+0000)

Wards give you vision to see if you get ganked in advance. TF, Panth, Kench, Taliyah Ults are a thing, but why shouldn't they get rewarded for using a high cooldown ability?

Eve gets countered by pinkwards right now (won't be in preseason). Bards ult can be stepped out of unless he is directly on top of you.

People in the bottom side of the map tend to only ward: River brush, tribrush and maybe a lane brush. Here's a simple quote from some youtuber (not sure if it was foxdrop, Jeremy or someone else):

The river brush ward is a "Hey you're dead" ward. Any competent jungler can just run through it and gank you regardless because you saw him too late.

~~But like I can see downvoting logical posts and whining about ganks is easier than trying to counterplay it.~~

Bard can ult the tower. If you hop in with the tower you're dead. Pinks don't do shit against Eve because "warding river bush is useless". The next closest spot that you can put a pink without it getting instantly destroyed is island bush. If you're being pushed than they destroy your ward anyways.

I know how to play the game, that's why I rank higher than 99% of the players.

Bot lane is a shit lane because teammates are shit and allow their lane to come bot while not trading objectives. I don't play bot lane because of the fact I get a 5v2 lane and my teammates take the time to recall and shop instead of taking 2-4 free towers + herald.

When I go top/mid/jungle, I do not allow any lane to roam bot, and if they do I take more objectives than they do.

TF, Panth, Taliyah,Kench ults are high cooldown, but that is their only purpsoe; to gank. Meaning the cooldown is irrelevant. A free kill every 110 seconds is retarded.

LauchmelderNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Urgot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cpjnOWUE,comment-id=000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-04T17:37:36.289+0000)

Bard can ult the tower. If you hop in with the tower you're dead.

Not going into the Bard one too much, if they are trying to 4 man dive you while you saw them approaching (with the wards you placed) and didn't move back it's your fault.

Pinks don't do shit against Eve because "warding river bush is useless". The next closest spot that you can put a pink without it getting instantly destroyed is island bush. If you're being pushed than they destroy your ward anyways.

75g < 600g for a doublekill. Put it down at dragon if you want, out in the open. A pink ward doesn't need a brush to do the job. He might survive longer, but a vital information from a 75 gold item can save you from giving their team 600 gold.

I know how to play the game, that's why I rank higher than 99% of the players.

Apparently you are. I wonder why you still don't use obvious counterplay to champions (like in the Eve case)

Bot lane is a shit lane because teammates are shit and allow their lane to come bot while not trading objectives. I don't play bot lane because of the fact I get a 5v2 lane and my teammates take the time to recall and shop instead of taking 2-4 free towers + herald.

Mid isn't much better. See your lane oponent move bot, try to push a tower and lack the damage to finish it off in 2-3 waves early on. Then watch your ADC come mid and take all your farm because "he needs it" while you are an Azir/Cassiopeia desperately trying to get to your lategame asap.

When I go top/mid/jungle, I do not allow any lane to roam bot, and if they do I take more objectives than they do.

See above. Can't take down a lot of towers early, especially if you're an AP skillshot based champ.

TF, Panth, Taliyah,Kench ults are high cooldown, but that is their only purpsoe; to gank. Meaning the cooldown is irrelevant. A free kill every 110 seconds is retarded.

You could argue that. But why don't you just play neutral? Freeze your lane near your own tower and they can't do much early on.

Leon EtoileNov 2, 20161 votes

It allows you to avoid ganks and tps with time given to properly disengage.

Nami in BushNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Leon Etoile,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cpjnOWUE,comment-id=000000020001,timestamp=2016-11-02T18:06:06.397+0000)

It allows you to avoid ganks and tps with time given to properly disengage.

The only thing you can do is leave and give the tower up. If teammates aren't trading objectives there's nothing you can do. Diving is easy with 3 people, no matter how much anticipation you put forth. A flash Skarner ult and you're dead with no chance to do anything.

theArtifactsNov 2, 20164 votes

I don't have a problem with the good old four man gank. My problem is when my support is constantly playing behind me or sitting in the bush as far away from me as possible. Gives the enemy adc/sup time to engage before my support even reacts. If I pull back to them, I lose cs. If I ask them to stop playing so far behind me, I get flamed. There is no winning in low elo. Most of the time I'm way ahead in CS too but the enemy team realizes my support is a big old Meowkai (minus the kai) and takes advantage of that.

JerulEonNov 3, 20163 votes

I love when supports play behind the ADC. Like what the hell are you going to do behind me? The ADC needs to be protected and your letting this lane be a 2v1.

LeetriNov 2, 20164 votes

I can't even remember the last time I got 4 man ganked bot. My issue with bot lane is that I have to rely on another random player to do well. In a solo lane it's 100% my fault if I lose lane, there's not another player there feeding the enemy laner tons of kills.

SkiasNov 2, 20164 votes

I wrote something about this in my survey. There is far too much strategic emphasis placed on not which was counter intuitive to the entire reason they added herald. They need to spread the value of the map back off of ADCs. They scale way too hard, way too fast so you become the most valuable objective on the map. Its not fun when you're only job is to find a way to crush bot. Top? Your job is to go bot. Mid? Go bot. Jungle? Camp bot.

Riot needs to reevaluate marksman scaling and value so there is more reason to choose to stay and fight your opponent instead of collapsing on bot.

VeltoxNov 2, 20163 votes

You have no damn right to complain about your role while item 3036 and item 3033 exist. Oh you stacked armor and hp?nah You got sustain?let me make it almost useless with just auto's.

Hardstuck G4Nov 2, 201612 votes

Of all the items you could complain about, you complain about the two worst ones to complain about. Holy shit, what are the boards these days

VeltoxNov 2, 20162 votes

Can we argue about it? You tell me how item 3036 is fair for any tank in this game.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 2, 20167 votes

Your team should be killing the ADC asap anyway

VeltoxNov 2, 20161 votes

Rushed excuse op. What if we have a more important target and you still ain't explaining crap.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 2, 201610 votes

Of all the things you could complain about... crit RNG, lifesteal which actually counters tanks, BotRK for crying out loud.

If you have a more important target then kill them obviously. Your job is to provide cc and soak damage. If you died then you did your job. Sheesh. Damage has to out value tankiness in the late game. It just has to. Otherwise tanks with 6 items would beat ADCs with 6 items in a 1v1.

SwordOfWarNov 2, 20163 votes

That's what you get brah

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 20164 votes

Should've known this lane was trouble from I walked in!

rescuedNov 2, 20162 votes

If 4 or 5 of the enemy team is bot lane, leave your tower (no point trying to save it and risk you dying) and tell your team to take advantage somewhere else on the map like mid, top, get rift herald. Let the ADC freeze minion wave and farm bot lane while the support helps with the pressure in mid.

I'm a support/adc main and yeah it sucks getting 4-5 man ganked almost every game but you just gotta take advantage of those opportunities somewhere else.

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 20162 votes

Yeah, I normally leave it if I can. I'd like for something to be taken elsewhere as well, though.

RISE Shlack123Nov 2, 20164 votes

Your team can't always take something else. What if your mid laner is losing lane and can't push that hard? What if your jungler was invaded and is behind? You can't always assume that your team can take something on the backend. Sometimes you have to concede a tower with no consolation prize. That's just how league is. At least when the 4-man takes place, your team can take a lead, catch up, or at least shove a wave and invade the enemy jungle. Your only concern when getting dove, however, is to just keep the minions clear and make the dive as costly as possible for the enemy team.

Leon EtoileNov 2, 20162 votes

Your team doesn't follow up

I typically call an adc who starts engages as mispositioned.

How's that DQ boost working out for you?

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 201621 votes

I've solo'd all the way to gold, fyi. And when I said "Your team doesn't follow up", I meant follow up on the 4 man gank, not follow up on engages.

How's that lack of comprehension working out for you? Don't come here being a prick when I haven't insulted anyone.

Leon EtoileNov 2, 20161 votes

I've solo'd all the way to gold, fyi. And when I said "Your team doesn't follow up", I meant follow up on the 4 man gank, not follow up on engages.

That is you being mispositioned. You say you are about to start a fight then see 2 extra people (4 man) and yet you aren't disengaging. Why?? You getting successfully 4 man ganked is a lack of your vision and map awareness. Mid and JG aren't on map; they are probably heading bot. Play safe.

I haven't insulted anyone.

Your whole post is insulting your team mates.

Brain Errör 404Nov 2, 201610 votes

No it isn't. My whole post is in the broadest and most general aspect there is. This isn't even from any specific game as I rarely play bot lane these days.

Also, you're interpreting this as if I die every single time I get 4 manned. I don't. I lost turret almost every time though, can't help that. I'm not saying fault lies on anyone. My laners can't control what their laners do. I would appreciate if they shove as hard as they can though.

Sometimes wards die; sometimes you're smack in the middle of a fight when a TP is thrown out and you're in such a bad position, that backing off is a terrible idea and you might as well take a kill or 2 before you die. You're not only taking this post too literally, you're also throwing around the term "mispositioned" quite loosely. I'm not getting caught out due to being positioned badly, I'm getting caught because of a good roam, or a good TP or a good gank. People need to understand that there is YOUR team and there is the ENEMY team and when you have both of those together, someone is going to get outplayed or outroamed.

I can't get angry at my teammates for the enemy making a good play; however, I can get angry at the enemy for making a good play. idc how nonsense that is, I'm gonna be salty if you have brains and not on my team. LOL

RISE Shlack123Nov 2, 20162 votes

In my experience, 4 man ganks are telegraphed. When mid goes mia and the enemy bot lane starts to posture aggressively, you need to move back to your tower and spam-ping for assistance. You can't rely on everyone on your team to have the proper map awareness, so you have to do some of the lifting yourself.

And in order to properly fend off a 4 man gank, you need to keep the minion wave clear. This is where your support comes in. You both need to keep the minions killed and prevent a large wave from crashing into your tower. At this point, your support will get some of that cs, and you'll miss some altogether. That's ok - keeping the dive from being effective is the only objective at this point. So tell your support in the pregame lobbies to beware of this situation and to proceed to help clear minions when a 4-man crash dive is coming in. This will help prevent total losses by either stopping the dive, killing some or all of them, or at the very least getting them so low that they can't take the Dragon after they dive.

Stick to the big picture stuff and you'll start to see that these 4-man dives will start to go in your favor more often than not. And after one failed or less-than-successful 4-man, chances are the enemy team will stop. I've seen a lot of crazy shit bot lane in my days, and as a support main, I know how to handle it from a support perspective. Hopefully my advice will help somewhat.

Brain Errör 404Nov 3, 20162 votes

Hey man, this is pretty good advice. I know generally how to handle a 4 man, and when I see it coming I normally back away from tower completely.

Never thought about having my support help me clear wave though, I'll keep an open mind for this now.

Supreme Senpai69Nov 2, 20162 votes

I dunno how much more I can take of bot lane, myself. I'm literally useless as a support if my ADC doesn't right click the enemy champions. And the second we get ahead? 4 man ganked. If we're really far behind? 4 man ganked. Dragon is just so important. I'd rather them put dragon top lane and baron bot lane; that way getting dragon has to be a coordinated effort and not conveniently right next to two people. And that way we won't have 5 people in my lane only 12 minutes in.