Title, the fact that junglers can get to top at lvl 2 with a red buff and pull off a gank without losing really anything is very annoying, especially since only red side gets to do the gank with red buff. This is one of the many things that is making top lane cancer, and should be addressed.
feintfiend37 votesTop lane doesn't matter anymore, the better player no longer wins top.
Top lane is decided off who picks second and who's jungler bothers to gank.
I hate it when I get no ganks, enemy jg camps me, and every lane still loses. How the fuck does that happen??
The thigh guy4 votesTop lane doesn't matter anymore, the better player no longer wins top.
Top lane is decided off who picks second and who's jungler bothers to gank.
I hate it when I get no ganks, enemy jg camps me, and every lane still loses. How the fuck does that happen??
Welcome to adc for the past 4 seasons?
Ragnaveil12 votesHow much longer are you gonna keep spouting that bullshit? Like seriously though.
The thigh guy3 votesHow much are you gonna keep spouting that bullshit? Like seriously though.
Until it isn’t true? It’s only a problem when it’s in fucking top lane.
Karma was an adc problem and they were just crying. Then she comes top and suddenly it’s an issue that matters
Same thing with Vayne.
Same thing with counter picking being Meta. Adcs was a rock paper scissors role for years.
Same thing with level 2 ganks.
And each and every fucking time adcs were just told “stop crying!” Yet now that it’s all overflowed into the most entitled role in the game it’s suddenly an issue?
Ragnaveil9 votesYou mean the same adcs that cried for crit reverts and got their wish answered, unlike toplaners who had every bit of evidence to show Riven is over the top were told it was a "Western phenomenon" and had to wait 8 patches for a "nerf", then another 6 till she was finally hit with an actual nerf. At least Riot listens to adcs.
The thigh guy3 votesYou mean the same adcs that cried for crit reverts and got their wish answered, unlike toplaners who had every bit of evidence to show Riven is over the top were told it was a "Western phenomenon" and had to wait 8 patches for a "nerf", then another 6 till she was finally hit with an actual nerf. At least Riot listens to adcs.
You mean the same adcs that litteraly couldn't play their role anymore and became so weak bruisers were just coming into the only lane they were allowed to be in and crushing them, and this lasted for an entire half a season right?
Or do you mean the adcs who get gutted out of every other role they become even close to playable in?
Ragnaveil4 votesSo an entire half a season is two patches, mk.
The thigh guy3 votesSo an entire half a season is two patches, mk.
Crit was gutted for a lot more than 2 patches. XD
Z3SIeeper5 votesAnd what champions were played bot lane while crit was gutted?
Hmmmm 
The only time SOME marksmen were weak was 8.11 => 8.13, which is 2 patches. During that time we saw the most bot lane diversity in history. But then we reverted back to your regularly scheduled top 3 meta.
The thigh guy3 votesAnd what champions were played bot lane while crit was gutted?
Hmmmm
The only time SOME marksmen were weak was 8.11 => 8.13, which is 2 patches. During that time we saw the most bot lane diversity in history. But then we reverted back to your regularly scheduled top 3 meta.
You mean the whole diversity of play
or lose?
Or the one where 
were shit stomping everything in botlane with ease because adc champions sucked that bad?
Z3SIeeper4 votesSolo Q champions:
- All of season 8
- Also all of season 8 season 8 due to various crazy interactions with his passive (HoB, Storm, Rageblade, etc.)
- 8.11 => 8.15 was her strongest moment, but she continued seeing solo Q play after
- 8.11 => 8.13 then nerfed, but still played then buffed again in 8.18
- 8.20+ after his minirework
- 8.13 => 8.17 (nerfed, still good after) then again in 8.24b+
- 8.13+ (really consistent stats for PR and WR)
- ofc
- 8.13+
Worlds 2018 ADCs (in order of playrate):
(not including the lower end of really niche one-off picks)
Really don't know how ya missed Kai'Sa.
Yets424021 votesNot even remotely close to true, but leave it to ADCs to always make every fucking thing even tangetialy related to the game all about them, and for them to whine evermore about how weak the most powerful singular subclass in the entire fucking game is. And woe is them to have an entire lane and position dedicated solely and exclusively to their use, with a slave to funnel gold and keep their dumb asses safe for all of laning and more. Most be so very hard to A-click and remember to move backwards occasionally, while bursting everything down with unmissable ranged damage several times a second.
Ragnaveil6 votesHey, lets not forget they are trying to invade other lanes too. Sure, they ain't popular, but its a thing still non the less (cuz they wanted diversity, but at the same time didn't want shit in their lane, but expect people to be fine if they invade their lanes.)
The thigh guy3 votesNot even remotely close to true, but leave it to ADCs to always make every fucking thing even tangetialy related to the game all about them, and for them to whine evermore about how weak the most powerful singular subclass in the entire fucking game is. And woe is them to have an entire lane and position dedicated solely and exclusively to their use, with a slave to funnel gold and keep their dumb asses safe for all of laning and more. Most be so very hard to A-click and remember to move backwards occasionally, while bursting everything down with unmissable ranged damage several times a second.
Oh really? Because adc has been a pick top 3 or lose role for years now.
And after that it’s just rock paper scissors.
But you know. It’s only an issue when the oh so precious top lane has to deal with it.
Z3SIeeper10 votesBecause ADCs are homogonized, top lane isn’t. Top lane is the most diverse lane with bruisers, tanks, mages, adcs and even supports present in it. On top of that most bruisers have extremely different play patterns. Thus if any 1 champion is crowding out every other option (like Viktor did), we lose all our diversity.
Meanwhile in the ADC role, if Jinx, Cait and Trist are S tier it’s still 3 right click oriented ADCs. When the entire basis of your role is “who can right click safer and harder” then no shit ur gonna have a “top 3” meta. Notice how this doesn’t apply to Ezreal? Yeah cuz he ain’t one of them.
preternatural7 votesTop lane doesn't matter anymore, the better player no longer wins top.
Top lane is decided off who picks second and who's jungler bothers to gank.
I hate it when I get no ganks, enemy jg camps me, and every lane still loses. How the fuck does that happen??
this is the purest tilt fuel league has to offer.
Baby Ghoul6 votesTop lane doesn't matter anymore, the better player no longer wins top.
Top lane is decided off who picks second and who's jungler bothers to gank.
I hate it when I get no ganks, enemy jg camps me, and every lane still loses. How the fuck does that happen??
Welcome to what every lane has to deal with when they're camped.
Get off the cross. We need the wood.
I agree though level 2 ganks top lane ruins the game, specifically because the types of broken champions that are up top. If they get a lead, they're so oppressive and the game spirals even if the other lanes win.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesNO BECAUSE EVERY OTHER LANE/ROLE/CLASS HAS THE ABILITY TO PKAY FROM BEHIND AND PLAY FOR LATEGAME.
BRUISERS DO NOT.
The most expensive and worst scaling items are bruiser items that are only worth a bit if you snowball. Thanks to riot removing conq and trinity sterak.
So NO it is NOT like every other role. Every mage, support, adc can comeback and scale. Bruisers do not.
5050BS2 votesThis is sooo true its sad
xDogMeatx1 votesthey need a anti gank shield for top laners
0 Hogapu14 votesIt's also true for midlane. I feel like the biggest issue with early ganks is red buff in general, so much damage / slow
Dukues3 votesIt's also true for midlane. I feel like the biggest issue with early ganks is red buff in general, so much damage / slow
Mid is easy. You can literally just stand towards the side of the lane your jungler is on to feel a little safer. Granted... it shows what side of the map your jungler on but makes you a little safer. Plus you have a ward use it. Only level 2 ganks that really worry me are 
or like a 
maybe since they can be invis. But if you assume it coming it pretty easy to just play passive for a bit.
Darkdemon6538 votesYeah, there's a good reason red buff was changed to not give level 2. I don't know why they changed it back.
0 Hogapu3 votesactually yeah, that would solve so much things ? why did they change it already, I can't seem to find the patch notes
5050BS4 votes100%
Riot needs to nerf Early Jungle EXP and scale it up after 10m
Cotten Eyed Joe6 votes100%
Riot needs to nerf Early Jungle EXP and scale it up after 10m
You're a genius. Amazing idea. Lets make the first camps not even give a level so that jungle is basically worthless and any champ without AOE is basically fucked.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesYes, maybe making jungle so piss easy that every champ can be played there was a mistake. Maybe not every champ should be playable in every role. 10 years of the same mistakes lets keep repeating them
Cotten Eyed Joe2 votesYes, maybe making jungle so piss easy that every champ can be played there was a mistake. Maybe not every champ should be playable in every role. 10 years of the same mistakes lets keep repeating them
Idk what depths of Iron you crawled out from but Jungle is one of the hardest if not the hardest role to play properly. Not every champ can be played jungle so this whole "every champ can be played in anyrole" is complete horse shit. Try playing Jungle Fizz or Jayce, or Zed, or Sion, or Darius, or Garen and tell me how that goes.
MasterDClone1 votession jg isnt terrible due to the jg item giving a max hp bonus but ya what you're saying is true
Tanerian3 votesHappens every game. So ya should know it's coming and ward appropriately?
Not trying to be obtuse. But ya know it's coming (because it happens every game) and you know WHEN it is coming, and you can start with a ward trinket.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesU do realize there are champions with powerspikes? As camille i only have lvl 1-3 until i start losing against every matchup and need to snowball on that so i have to accept to lose lane and the game bc the junlger can sit top for five minutes without being punished? Great design. no changes to jungle please.
Tanerian1 votesU do realize there are champions with powerspikes? As camille i only have lvl 1-3 until i start losing against every matchup and need to snowball on that so i have to accept to lose lane and the game bc the junlger can sit top for five minutes without being punished? Great design. no changes to jungle please.
I've not played a lane or jungle where there are not matchups or scenarios where I just have to accept I'll lose the lane, and make due. Every lane/matchup is not winnable. Some champs have it worse than others, that's why we diversify our roster.
Void Kaiju3 votesIt's not the level 2 ganks that make the lane a pain in the ass. It's that a jungler can gank top, fail the gank, retain an exp lead on you, and hang out around top for sometimes 2-3 minutes constantly threatening to gank again. And in a lane that's pretty much a 1v1 snowball fest, even if you survive every gank thrown at you (unlikely, since eventually they will just dive you and if they kill you they will take 2-4 turret plates), you fall so far behind that you're playing on the back foot for the rest of the lane. You lose all lane priority unless your jungler intervenes.
Surviving one gank should be expected of you. Ward your lane. But junglers should take a very meaningful hit if they try and fail to gank the same lane 3+ times. Because the laner they're ganking against is taking hits for that despite playing properly and surviving.
Metal Janna3 votesLevel 2 ganks anywhere are cancer. Oh look, i'm dancing with my hard engage opponent trying not to get caught out level 1 or get beaten to level 2. Oh look, the enemy jungler just came flying out of the jungle already level 2. Oh look, I got flash CC'd because the enemy knows it's a guaranteed kill. I really got outplayed there. Clearly I should have just let the enemy beat us to level 2 so they can flash hook kill us anyway.
Just undo the damage creep Riot! 100% HP should not be the kill zone at level 2!
Demacian Might1 votes[{quoted}](name=Metal Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chElNXHo,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:06:58.062+0000)
Level 2 ganks anywhere are cancer. Oh look, i'm dancing with my hard engage opponent trying not to get caught out level 1 or get beaten to level 2. Oh look, the enemy jungler just came flying out of the jungle already level 2. Oh look, I got flash CC'd because the enemy knows it's a guaranteed kill. I really got outplayed there. Clearly I should have just let the enemy beat us to level 2 so they can flash hook kill us anyway.
Just undo the damage creep Riot! 100% HP should not be the kill zone at level 2!
Imma be real, Just ward their opposite buff, you have their red on your side of the jungle, ward as creeps hit the wave. This does two things, It can cause confusion to their team trying to figure out who is leashing, and gives you vision on when they're topside. it's not hard, nor does it take much effort. The main issue with this entire thread is people not having map awareness.
MasterDClone2 votesthey are losing plenty by doing a gank toplane, if your jg is good he will invade their blue, land a gank botlane, he gets prio over scuttle, if it happens so oftern be ready for it, ward early ask ur jg to start blue and counter gank.
or just complain to the boards :)
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesINVADING BLUE AHAHAHAHAHA
Man u jungle players are so bad u dont even understand your own role.
VERTICAL JUNGLE META EXISTS FOR OVER A YEAR NOW.
No jungler gives a fuck about blue side. Red gives WAY MORE XP and junglers just silently agree to play their red side so top/mid and mid/bot everyone gets scuttle and the enemy blue side and their own red side so camping top is perfectly fine as is camping bot.
MasterDClone3 votesvertical jungle hasnt been meta for a while now, it was meta when we were in the assassin/bruiser meta but right now it is very rare if ever that i invade or get invaded, camping either lane does make sense to either get yourself ahead or that lane but even then right now the best decision is to get bot lane ahead instead of top-lane because adc is the most powerful role atm.The early topside gank thing has to do entirely with based off if your top or bottom because that is the natural clear speed, most jglers start bot side for a leash, and most junglers can't or it isn't optimal to take krugs or raptors early so every game it is common for one teams jungler to gank bot lvl3/4 with redbuff on and the other to do the same. ofc when you see what type of jgler you are facing.
I do understand my role quite well, but if you think that vertical jungling is still a thing played commonly then i recommend you play jg and test it out for yourself because vertical jgling right is one of the worst possible strategies to do because of the amount of time you waste crossing and the possible scuttle you miss out on.
Mordepool2 votesJust had a game where the jungler hard camped my lane, i gave up 4 kills out of 12 ganks by min 15.
But better botlane wins so it doesn't matter
Cotten Eyed Joe2 votesJust had a game where the jungler hard camped my lane, i gave up 4 kills out of 12 ganks by min 15.
But better botlane wins so it doesn't matter
Ward better, learn patterns. If you're playing as Zed vs a Veigar and he suddenly starts walking up, their jungler is probably there
Lauchmelder1 votesOr he simply invalidated you for a good portion of the earlygame thanks to Hexdrinker if you're the Veigar.
Edit: Changed the situation. Please don't call me out on it, i barely slept the past 2 days and misread your example as you being Veigar.
Cotten Eyed Joe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chElNXHo,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T21:30:25.917+0000)
Or he simply invalidated you for a good portion of the earlygame thanks to Hexdrinker if you're the Veigar.
Edit: Changed the situation. Please don't call me out on it, i barely slept the past 2 days and misread your example as you being Veigar.
Lmao lol its okay. But Zed never builds hexdrinker against just veigar unless veigar is like 8/0. Hex is a really bad item on Zed, you only really build it against 3+ burst mages
ThatsNotMyGoat2 votes"This is one of the many things that is making top lane cancer, and should be addressed." ...??? Address it yourself. You have countless options on how to do that. Put your trinket literally anywhere on the north-east side of the map. Blue Tri bush. Your River bush. Leaving red buff. Or, not even any of that, play a safer position in the lane, in between your melees and casters. or even behind your casters. This is literally not a problem past silver.
FioraWillCarry2 votesYou're joking right? While I'm not a jungle main, I do play jungle a lot and a level 2 gank is incredibly risky. If you don't get anything for it, you're fucked. Plain and simple. I never do that shit anymore because of how far behind I risk putting myself. Level 2 ganking in the current jungle is just a cheese. It just isn't worth most of the time.
Daddy Ants2 votesLevel 2 ganking ruins every lane.
TekkenPlayer1 votessuccessful bot lane roams ruin mid lane
Yes i'm suing 
BeastDaArv1 votesyeah yeah first let’s nerf jglers so they can’t lvl3 gank after 3 camps, now let’s make sure they can’t lvl 2 gank. I suggest 1 Buff + 2 camps to hit lvl 2, or 1 Buff + Krugs (with jgl item). i’ll bet it’ll be amazing to play
Ionian Vulpix1 votesDon't want to be ganked at level 2? Maybe ward before then and back off before committing to a fight. Or you know, understand when the gank is coming and prepare for it. Top laners will always find something to complain about, even though jungle has been nerfed specifically due to this type of whining.
Kharisma1 votesIf you're a toplane main you need to ask yourself this question? Where did the enemy jungle start? Let's say you're on Blue side which is the side that will most likely get level 2 ganked. The enemy jungle is Xin Zhao and your enemy laner does not show in lane for a few seconds. He probably leashed right? This means you should not be hitting the minion wave and playing back in case the Xin Zhao wants to cheese you. Let's say the enemy jungle starts blue and your enemy laner is in lane when you come to lane. This means you have about 2 minutes until the enemy jungle paths to your side of the map. You need to place a ward in the river at about 3 minutes and play safe at this time since the jungle will most likely look top. If you avoid a level 2 gank you can waste a lot of your enemies time and hurts them a lot.
Ekhasm1 votesJunglers ruin the game period. Cancer role
