A clear feedback [with questions] to the Rioter who balance Soraka.

Siegfriedx1··12 votes·1,739 views
soraka by zero1510-d91xqmg

First of all, you are awesome.

You got a challenge on your hands that have been around since season 3 [or even maybe 2], a bomb that after multiple attempts of balance from countless Rioters [im around since the version before morello rework] have never been/feel to be on the exactly right spot, sometimes by her theme feeling off, sometimes because of numeric balance.

The coolest part is that i can feel you are trying! You are going after to solve some of her problems right now in this very last patch [in this case about frustration playing against her].

I'm here talking to you** not** because i disagree with your plans of balance, but to talk about Soraka theme, Soraka uniqueness and to remember what this character have faced so far on countless balance/modernization attempts.

I want you to engage in a conversation with me and the community to, at very least, help us to understand how you feel and think about this champion for now and the future.

I have some major questions with this post that i would like to make in the end of it after looking on this time line:

Pre-rework Soraka ----------------> Reworked Soraka ------------------> Modernized Soraka ------------------> Nerfed Modernized Soraka

Pre-rework Soraka was a mess. It was trully bad. Her starcall design would be way more effective on a tank champion, and her base numbers made possible a thing called Top/Mid Soraka to exist. You could actually build tank on her and just spam starcalls to win teamfights or your lane. She was way off from her actual theme.

Reworked soraka tried to give the first steps starting to embrace her role as the main healing support character.

Soraka, different from all other supports of this ENTIRE GAME, have a theme focused directly on your team mates and not on your enemies. I remember morello talking about that in the past.

Try to think about a support, anyone. Janna? She is really focused on fliping and pushing people away on many moments. Karma? Dealing damage, giving movement speed and holding people. Thresh? CC for days on your enemies. Try to be creative and focus a lot on what each support of this game do or have to offer all the time, the result might be surprising.

Only Soraka have her main theme around using skills on your allies all the time for their own behalf. As the owner of a powerful tittle of the only actual true themed support, she is, indeed, our most special support.

Maybe that was the problem at that moment. She is so weird comparing to our balance "know how" that any small attempt with new skills on her could already be considered a bold move / basically impossible to balance, at least without further iteration. Morello with his design experience understood that and took his time thinking about the solution with the next team that would take her.

So we did it. Soraka received a health cost and was decided she would have to interact to gain health back to continue healing. She would now have to bare more risk so we could, in the future, give her what she deserve and that was amazing.

Although doing only that never fully addressed her theme problem, an attempt of adjustment was made and we felt progress.

Modernized Soraka came as an attempt to reduce her self peel potential and bring even more iteration

By changing the way her healing works on herself and adding a more reliable slow on her starcall, this was the moment Soraka started to face once more a natural step on her quest for a good, cool and healthy identity. This time facing her OP self-peel potential. The problem is that everything went strange in a way hard to understand.

Huge amounts of slow, momentary movement speed, reliable hard CC combo and powerful lane phase, Modern Soraka suddenly was walking in the direction to be a strange version of Nami.

As we learned how our new Soraka's lane phase worked, we approached more and more something like Nami's lane phase. Strong slow, possibility of hard CC in strong trades were somehow part of new Soraka kit that allowed, for some reason, builds around way less heals to our friends. The thing is, why?

Was those changes being made because of the direction Soraka had to go after a huge thought about her role in the game, like morello did, or just because it was more convenient to have her with a lane phase close to Nami as it was easier to use and compare? I never felt Soraka was anything like that.

She became hyper strong on lane phase, with a weaker mid-late game [due to lose self-peel potential what is ok], lost a good chunk of %AP potential [her self-heal used to benefit most out of that] and started her new life in this new Soraka cicle. Less ap, stronger lane phase, and less heals. Modern Soraka, here we go.

** Nerfed Modernized Soraka came naturally as her numbers were too high**

So we entered in the era where Soraka started to receive countless nerfs to her new stats.

We nerfed how her passive interacted with her new mastery, nerfed how much movement speed she could receive from landing starcalls, if she could run freely or not, starcall damage, mana cost and now we saw her healing receiving a new nerf on her cooldown.

I'm not talking directly about numeric balance here as i'm sure all those nerfs reflect an amazingly high win rate, but it break my heart seeing Soraka's lane phase turned in to a tweeked version of Nami's at the cost of part of something connected to her true identity. Soraka still don't live for her theme but i think we could listen more about that from you. ** 1- What are your thoughts about Soraka? Are you happy with her state? Her direction? 2- How you approach her theme?
3- If we could imagine a Soraka without an on hit reliable Slow but that had something to incentivate aggressiveness, would you accept suggestions? 4- What would be your thoughts on modifications like the ones below: ** Starcall: Don't slow anymore, costs way more mana, activate Rejuvenation, gives movement speed.

Rejuvenation: Last longer, may stack 1 more time if landing another starcall during the duration of Rejuvenation, if stacked this way turns into Divine Rejuvenation.

Divine Rejuvenation: Increases movement speed bonus from starcall, Soraka regenerates way more health than rejuvenation, Soraka healings are x% stronger and Equinox also absurdly slows targets on hit and on step. The duration of Divine Rejuvenation can be increased if landing more starcalls.

Equinox: Way less damage, lower cooldown.

Characteristics: Lack of reliable CC. Weaker killing potential Easy to run out of mana if misusing starcalls. Can be outplayed by avoiding her second or first starcall. Very clear window of power [Landing the first starcall and going after the second one] Easier to balance over Divine Rejuvenation State [nerfing / buffing this state] . Different feeling to her lanephase and fight potential. High [very high] reward to risky interactions. Very skilled players being very different than not skilled ones Possibility to nerf her base heal if divine rejuvenation is strong enough [leading to more interesting lanephases].

**5- Do you think that CC is a vital part on a support life? **

Well that's it, thank you for your time! :)

14 Comments

Fashion Mage4 votes

A very well-informed, logical, and constructive post. I hope a Rioter takes notice of this.

Siegfriedx11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fashion Mage,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ch4wBE2E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-24T16:07:27.768+0000)

A very well-informed, logical, and constructive post. I hope a Rioter takes notice of this.

Thank you! I'm looking for ways so they can see it too!

The Yetii Rider2 votes

CC is absolutely vital on supports. That's why Riot has had so much trouble balancing Sona, when Bard has even fewer damage skills than her and functions just fine.

Siegfriedx12 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ch4wBE2E,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-24T19:07:26.085+0000)

CC is absolutely vital on supports. That's why Riot has had so much trouble balancing Sona, when Bard has even fewer damage skills than her and functions just fine.

But is that just a problem related to CC being important or because we had more experience balancing around CC but almost no experience around auras, shields, healing etc?

Through the years i always saw a very expecific duration for CC on all champions and all kinds of nerf or buff always were simple like increasing or decreasing values by 0.25 from the very beginning of this game to the latest buff on nocturn.

On the other hand I saw how it took 4 years to we realize how auras could be balanced and starting doing something about it.

And I saw how it took us more than 5 years to actually understand that if a support champion have high base stats it may be able to play mid or top.

Also took us more than 5 years to realize that mobility carry strength and try to balance hyper mobile champions as well to buff some champions without mobility like brand.

On my opinion I think we just have a clear 'know how' about crowd control but a really foggy or debatable experience with other sensitive stuff.

I believe maybe the community attacked so much Riot to be perfect that we actually pressed Riot to do what it's safer to be done, although not exactly the best or the right thing ( that would be rely on CC)

Maybe we did that so much that Riot fear our feedback. Because we say "mordekaiser rework sucks" Instead of: "you did some really cool innovation there man, we want more things like that. Now let's talk about how this experience is being / if we think it fit our expectations."

Innovation is a natural path to mistakes, maybe we treat Riot mistakes as something so bad that sometimes they Shell Up, Soraka start being balanced around slow and we don't know how to speak up .

I wanted a Rioter to enter in this discussion with us. I understood your point but I think that if all supports should have a core CC, what I just agree in certain conditions ( don't agree in Sona case), that at very least Soraka should be around silence, not reliable lane phase slow.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

It's because if a champion doesn't have enough CC to peel, they can't do the job of supporting. Period. How else can you peel?

Have you ever played Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft? There's a very similar idea between board control and healing that exists in the form of Reno Jackson. Reno Jackson is a card all on its own that when played, restores your character to full health. It can heal you for 29 with a single card, which is absolutely absurd since other cards usually heal for 4-8 health apiece. But if you aren't protecting your hero with taunts or spells as well, healing to 30 will not win you the game, since your opponent will use their board presence to just push for 30 damage all over again.

Similar thing with Soraka heals. You need peel to back it up.

Siegfriedx11 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ch4wBE2E,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-09-24T21:09:33.232+0000)

It's because if a champion doesn't have enough CC to peel, they can't do the job of supporting. Period. How else can you peel?

Have you ever played Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft? There's a very similar idea between board control and healing that exists in the form of Reno Jackson. Reno Jackson is a card all on its own that when played, restores your character to full health. It can heal you for 29 with a single card, which is absolutely absurd since other cards usually heal for 4-8 health apiece. But if you aren't protecting your hero with taunts or spells as well, healing to 30 will not win you the game, since your opponent will use their board presence to just push for 30 damage all over again.

Similar thing with Soraka heals. You need peel to back it up.

I really don't agree that supporting and peeling off is strictly the same thing... I can imagine a card healing and giving some cool iterations without having taunt. Each card have it's own characteristics and don't have to share every single one to be meaningful right? Janna may be really good against rammus while sona simple it's not.

Soraka is different than other supports, instead of providing peel off she demands peel off to do what she need to do. I always thought that was part of her identity too, but maybe silence is part of her identity all this time too. Maybe not having a reliable slow is fine with the right iterations and window of power.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

I personally love Soraka to death, she's my favorite Mage support.

I started playing in PreS6, so I only ever played the modernized Soraka, so I dont have as much knowledge on her as I would like. However I learned a lot about her past thanks to this post.

This really well put together post really helped to shed some light on the balancing of our favorite Star Child, and I really hope Riot takes note of this idea. In fact I wouldn't trust any other member here besides you to rework Soraka, (Since most of them want to gut her. <.<)

Siegfriedx11 votes

{quoted}

I personally love Soraka to death, she's my favorite Mage support.

I started playing in PreS6, so I only ever played the modernized Soraka, so I dont have as much knowledge on her as I would like. However I learned a lot about her past thanks to this post.

This really well put together post really helped to shed some light on the balancing of our favorite Star Child, and I really hope Riot takes note of this idea. In fact I wouldn't trust any other member here besides you to rework Soraka, (Since most of them want to gut her. <.<)

Haha, thank you for the trust!

What would be your answers to those 5 points i asked?

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well now that I'm on my laptop I can answer these.

  1. I believe that as a heal-focused support, she's really close to her intended theme. Her state I'm not too happy with, with being forced to max W now to do much of the healing her ADC practically expects from her at all moments. Her direction in game isn't too close to her theme. Right now she has to come close, hit her Qs to refill her own health so she can dispense it among her team. Straightforward but not braindead like Soraka haters claim. I get that now she has to interact with her lane to get work done, but I can't help feeling that there is a better way.

  2. Personally I would embrace her theme, "To heal and protect." Perhaps lowering the damage on her Q and E, and in return put some kind of damage mitigation in her kit, or give bigger heals but in the form of boosted health regen instead of a burst of heal. As a medic, I would expect for her not to hamper or try to protect her patients by harming those who want to hurt them, but get their injured patients away and to safety. Her W can give a MS boost when she gets a buff from landing her Q, kinda like it does now, but I want more buffs to her other skills from landing a Q. Like, Her W and E and R are the parts of her kit that does what she wants to do, heal and protect her allies, her Q is like the obligatory damage spell with CC to make sure she's not useless in an all in. I want her Q to amplify her other skills to give her a thematic reason to harm others. Sorry for the rambling here, I felt I had more to say in my head.

  3. I wouldn't mind suggestions, Soraka has the potential to be the best healer in the game yet still be fair for the other guys, and I'm all for suggestions.

  4. I like it. That way she isn't too strong in laning when there aren't as many people to hit with her Q, yet she can still make a difference in teamfights, where she seems to be regulated to ult, then run around and heal as much as she can before she gets focused and killed.

  5. Hmm.. For a support, CC is important because you want to either: ** disengage from a bad fight so your carry doesn't die. engage to force a bad fight for your enemy so they die. ** But what if there was a third option? for farming lanes that don't want to fight and will waste their opponent's efforts to make them fight? If you could find a way to do it without CC, then the assistance would be through sustain and frustrating the opponent into a bad trade because they thirst for blood, while your boosted ADC can fight them aloneish while you fight through your ADC by keeping them alive, and making a perimeter for their escape if things go south. To buff your ADC to a point that they can 1v2, but in exchange you cannot affect your opponents too much with CC, so with enough CC they can overwhelm your carry and kill them, and easily kill you if you are caught out. But maybe these things are bad for the game. But bottom line I would say that if a support doesn't have CC, then they need to be able to sustain their ADC through laning and learn a passive playstyle to play safe to protect their ADC.

Teridax682 votes

I agree with a lot of this: Soraka's theme as a pure healer is difficult to work with, even though it's absolutely a niche worth having, and the balance team's done an admirable job, considering how she can still do her job pretty well. My issue, though, is that several of her recent changes don't feel all that great: I really dislike her Rejuvenation mechanic, for example, as it's a lot of persistent, low-visibility power that has the biggest effect when neither Soraka nor her partner are really taking risks. Reducing the base power of her heal and increasing its initial cooldown is also likely to make her more passive in lane, and I feel her health costs aren't really being taken into account as the balancing lever they were supposed to be.

To be fair, though, I think a lot of Soraka's issues aren't with her specifically, but with the systems she interacts with: Warmog's is still far too attractive on her, and I think is an item that needs to be looked at again (the strongest health regeneration item in the game should scale with health regen, not maximum health). Supports also have too few ways to scale, which is likely one of the reasons why she got the Rejuvenation effect (it makes her healing scale over levels 1-13, rather than just levels 1-9), and need a utility-specific scaling stat on top of AP that would allow them to integrate better with itemization, which would allow her to have healing that is appropriate for both the early and late game. With this, I also think Soraka's health cost should start out higher, and ramp down to 10%, instead of costing a lot of mana, which would put emphasis on the risky aspect of her healing in lane.

To answer question #3, I think Soraka having a slow is fine, particularly since it synergizes well with Equinox, but if she needed something that emphasized aggressive behavior, the alternative could be granting every nearby allied champion and herself a movement speed boost when walking towards enemies hit by Starcall. To answer #4, I don't think making the same effect statistically stronger actually works that well in League, since it doesn't create the same feeling of success as, say, gaining a new effect entirely, though the idea of stacking Starcalls for greater in-combat power is interesting and potentially great for making Soraka more aggressive.

Re: #5, I think crowd control is generally a good way of letting any champion contribute no matter how far behind they may be, which is why it's a staple on supports (no support can really afford expensive, power-enhancing items right now), and it also tends to be an essential part of supporting because crowd control is how you set up kills, peel, etc. Because of this, I think CC generally is vital to the support life, though it might be an interesting experiment to try to design a support champion with no CC at all (they'd probably have to have a lot of utility and a fair bit of damage, though).

Siegfriedx12 votes

{quoted}

I agree with a lot of this: Soraka's theme as a pure healer is difficult to work with, even though it's absolutely a niche worth having, and the balance team's done an admirable job, considering how she can still do her job pretty well. My issue, though, is that several of her recent changes don't feel all that great: I really dislike her Rejuvenation mechanic, for example, as it's a lot of persistent, low-visibility power that has the biggest effect when neither Soraka nor her partner are really taking risks. Reducing the base power of her heal and increasing its initial cooldown is also likely to make her more passive in lane, and I feel her health costs aren't really being taken into account as the balancing lever they were supposed to be.

To be fair, though, I think a lot of Soraka's issues aren't with her specifically, but with the systems she interacts with: Warmog's is still far too attractive on her, and I think is an item that needs to be looked at again (the strongest health regeneration item in the game should scale with health regen, not maximum health). Supports also have too few ways to scale, which is likely one of the reasons why she got the Rejuvenation effect (it makes her healing scale over levels 1-13, rather than just levels 1-9), and need a utility-specific scaling stat on top of AP that would allow them to integrate better with itemization, which would allow her to have healing that is appropriate for both the early and late game. With this, I also think Soraka's health cost should start out higher, and ramp down to 10%, instead of costing a lot of mana, which would put emphasis on the risky aspect of her healing in lane.

To answer question #3, I think Soraka having a slow is fine, particularly since it synergizes well with Equinox, but if she needed something that emphasized aggressive behavior, the alternative could be granting every nearby allied champion and herself a movement speed boost when walking towards enemies hit by Starcall. To answer #4, I don't think making the same effect statistically stronger actually works that well in League, since it doesn't create the same feeling of success as, say, gaining a new effect entirely, though the idea of stacking Starcalls for greater in-combat power is interesting and potentially great for making Soraka more aggressive.

Re: #5, I think crowd control is generally a good way of letting any champion contribute no matter how far behind they may be, which is why it's a staple on supports (no support can really afford expensive, power-enhancing items right now), and it also tends to be an essential part of supporting because crowd control is how you set up kills, peel, etc. Because of this, I think CC generally is vital to the support life, though it might be an interesting experiment to try to design a support champion with no CC at all (they'd probably have to have a lot of utility and a fair bit of damage, though).

Very well made reply. Thank you for your time. I think you extracted the essence of a good part of the direction we could aim on many parts of this post. It's really late today but i hope i can check this post again tomorrow to check how the discussion is running.

Siegfriedx11 votes

C'mon guys, comment! :) Also sorry for my bad English, it's not my first language!

Siegfriedx11 votes

bump

Siegfriedx11 votes

So sad no Rioter answered to this... :[

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