To people who say sona takes no skill - explain why she takes less skill than any point click champ

Rothj·Dec 17, 2017·6 votes·1,901 views

Say a champ like akali that is not used in pro play, what is complex or difficult about her? I can list off some facts about sona that take skill to climb with:

-She has zero escapes and is the squishiest champ in the game - to make it to diamond you have to be able to dodge everything. Many tank players can make it to diamond without having to learn to dodge at all.

-Powerchords... mid teamfights in order to carry harder you should be using e powerchord for peels or slows, q to kill low hp priority targets, and w powerchord on someone during a big ability.

-Low cooldowns late. With low cooldowns and powerchords you have to have a very high apm and actually understand which powerchord to use and which abilities to use in the moment to get the powerchord you want. Lower cooldowns means you have to think a lot faster as to what to use at what time.

-Good ults. if you want to land good ults you will need to leearn to flash ult and position to maximize it. This is something you can continue to get better at to climb.

-in order to actually maximize her potential and carry, you have to position yourself so that your allies get your auras in addition to just using your abilities.

-KITING ... inorder to maximize her potential late game you have to kite while autoing the way an adc would... so if you have to kite and auto at the same level of as a late game adc doesnt this make her take as much skill as those champs?

So why exactly is she less skillful than something like akali with point and click abilities? For a champ that takes "no skill" theres a lot of "bad" sonas isnt there? Why dont these good players switch to sona and climb for the freelo? She does have a low skill floor i agree but her skill ceiling is high.

Edit: Also want to add that after the nerfs I changed my playstyle and literally went from diamond 5 to diamond 3 in 24 hours with a 70% win rate in diamond... then after getting stuck at d3 for a few days I tilted and lost every game back to d5. The point Im making with this is if you play well with sona you will win and carry every single game EASILY. I bet you could smurf as sona and get an 80% win rate. If you are playing bad as sona, you will lose every game. If she did not take skill most people will sit at 50% with her which is not the case.

29 Comments

Vapor Wave VibesDec 17, 20174 votes

Sona doesn't have to even point. Just click

RothjDec 17, 20172 votes

So if someone can point and click and also click why is pointing and clicking more skill based if its still easy enough that anyone can? How can a point and click champ "miss"?

Vapor Wave VibesDec 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

So if someone can point and click and also click why is pointing and clicking more skill based if its still easy enough that anyone can? How can a point and click champ "miss"?

I"m not staying it's hard. I'm saying it still takes more skill than not pointing.

RothjDec 17, 20172 votes

But if a skill is so easy that it's irrelevant does it matter? If it doesnt actually hinder you from playing the champ it's more or less equal skill - an average silver player is going to have the same difficulty playing sona as a point and click champ.

SwiftKitten88Dec 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vapor Wave Vibes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cfgyi7tW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-17T02:49:18.842+0000)

Sona doesn't have to even point. Just click

this answer is too perfect. it short.. simple.. to the point.. correct, and so bloody obvious..

Chembaron YamadaDec 17, 20173 votes

You compare the kiting of a Sona with kiting of an ADC, which is not accurate.

The big difference here is that an ADC has to constantly attack while walking in the late game, which is also harder because of the higher attack speed.

This is the reason why (for example) kiting with Jhin is actually easier than other ADCs. His attack speed is fixed, meaning that he doesn't have to attack as much between walking and he loses less damage that way. Same applies to Sona.

In the end, every champion requires some skills. But let's not pretend that there are not different tiers and as it stands, Sona is on a low tier when it comes to mechanics. Most skill (you described it well btw) are more about decision making and less about execution.

Knowing in which order you should press your keys to get the most benefit is not as intense when it comes to execution as for example the combos a Zed or Camille does on otp level.

But the biggest question is: why even care? I enjoy playing various champs, including champs from both sides of the spectrum, high skill cap and low skill cap.

If you enjoy the champ, don't care if someone tells you that it doesn't require skill to play them.

PlacentasDec 17, 20172 votes

This comment. End of story.

RothjDec 17, 20172 votes

The reason it matters is people exaggerate her lack of skill due to the q and w auto targeting. Lets say sona was literally an adc - you build ap/ad hypothetically with lich bane and you had to be the damage of the team with her current kit, wouldnt she actually be a relatively hard adc to play? Again all hypothetical but just pointing out most adcs do not have to actually do anything beyond autoing which is what sona has to do as well.

Chembaron YamadaDec 17, 20171 votes

Sona has a low skill floor and ceiling compared to the average champion pool, that's how I see it and I truly don't want to exaggerate anything here.

The problem is just that people are using it as an insult to attack the player.

Her current kit doesn't make her a hard ADC to play. Right now, you are underestimating the things ADCs have to manage as well. There are alot of mechanics in ADC kits they have to manage beyond just auto attacking.

Varus 3 skillshots in his kit, which he all utilises regularly. Has to use his Q to proc his stacks for maximum damage.

Jhin Constantly weaving in skills between attacks to maximize his damage. R and W are narrow skillshots.

Draven Constantly catching axes while kiting.

Xayah Managing her feathers and have to angle her E correctly.

Ezreal Strongly skillshot reliant.

Sona gets benefit for her skills by standing next to allies (which supports usually do naturally) and autoing in between. The only thing she has to aim herself is her ultimate. Granted, people make her out to be complete point and click here, which is not true.

But in the end, I still think she belongs in the low skill cap section of the spectrum. While this might be true, it is no reason to attack the player of the champion or look down on them.

RothjDec 17, 20171 votes

Basically in order to just her abilities randomly it takes no mechanics. However in late game when everything is super low cooldown and you have to constantly be moving and weaving autos she can carry extremely hard if you have a high apm and fast mechanics. Sona is capable of literally 1v5 late game... I can go as a diamond player into plat games and literally just stomp after level 11. That wouldnt be possible on a low skill ceiling champ.

Edit: <edited again by moderation> I literally carried to diamond 3 with mechanics alone on Sona. My macro is also good but my decision making is pretty terrible and I frequently feed in a lot of games. Mostly I rank up by carrying with the champ. I can go into a game with plats and get 20 kills as sona and 1v5 the enemy team. This is why you are wrong.

Chembaron YamadaDec 17, 20171 votes

That wouldn't be possible on a low skill ceiling champ.

Not really true in my opinion. The big plus of Sona's kit is reliability. If your enemy stays in range of you, there is basically nothing they can do to prevent your kit from what it is doing.

They can't prevent your W to heal and shield. They can't prevent your Q to deal damage. Meaning there is no room for them to outplay your kit.

Now it depends on the enemy champions. If they are all skillshot reliant for example, then you have room to outplay. However, this has nothing to do with Sona. This is your ability to dodge their abilities.

Now take away the option to outplay the enemy kit. Let's say there are a Vi and a Malzahar in the enemy team. I highly doubt that you would be able to 1v5 the enemy team in that case. Why? Because of the same reason that is Sona's advantage: reliability. Vi and Malzahar can just point&click ult you and there isn't much you can do against it while their team is murdering you.

Meaning: Sona doesn't require you to be able to hit unreliable stuff. What she does require in that situation is your ability to dodge the enemy. But this skill is required for every champion in the game. Which means that this doesn't really give much information about the skill requirement of the champion.

RothjDec 17, 20171 votes

Because you canshield, use e to kite, and q to damage, and literally kite vie late and win without problems. Your abilities are 1 sec cd. Thats why

Chembaron YamadaDec 17, 20171 votes

But this has literally nothing to do with Sona needing skill to execute.

RothjDec 17, 20171 votes

[deleted]

Chembaron YamadaDec 17, 20171 votes

That's sad now, I thought you are interested in a serious discussion about the matter. But it seems your ego is preventing it.

Nothing to add here anymore, have a nice day.

ModKnightsKemplarDec 18, 20171 votes

Hey Rothj,

I edited on your edit because it was erring pretty close to elo shaming territory. Talking about your own experience in high elo is encouraged; emphasizing other's elo or skill level is not. Please keep it focused on the topic at hand and try to frame your arguments in a respectful manner!

--KempyreanPirate Advisor

Daedric EtwahlDec 17, 20173 votes

As far as kit goes, Sona is probably the easiest champion in the game. Most of her difficulty comes through survivability and proper use of Power Chord. Other than the Power Chord point, survivability and positioning aren't unique to Sona, so many people say they don't count.

Now granted, despite being the simplest champion in the game, there are some champions that I would say come pretty close to her in terms of... well, whatever you wanna call it. Simplicity, lack of depth, being "braindead" if you're one of those people. I would argue Udyr is one of those champions that doesn't really take much skill either. Sure, you're kitable, but again, that isn't unique to Udyr.

To be honest if someone is raging over the fact that I play a "braindead" champ like Sona, I usually just ignore them, since they probably don't have anything to say worth listening to

RothjDec 17, 20171 votes

Except sona is only simple on the surface, but has a lot of room to outplay and a lot of depth. It is only easy to play her at the most basic level but there is a lot of room to outplay.

Daedric EtwahlDec 17, 20172 votes

The thing is, even when comparing skill ceilings, Sona is still probably the easiest champion in the game. And, honestly, that's not a bad thing.

Plenty of champions are good for beginners, they're simple and easy to pick up and understand. But they do have SOME depth to them.

Compared to other champs like Kalista or Azir, you can pick up Sona for the first time and do reasonably well at a basic level. But if I tried out either of those other two right now I'd be beyond useless.

But what does really get my goat is when people attack others for their champ being "braindead" or pretend that Sona's skill floor is the same as her skill ceiling, which it obviously isn't. A first time Sona can do reasonably okay, but will be definitely outclassed by someone with lots of experience with Sona under their belt.

CavemanteroDec 17, 20171 votes

cuz faceroll bro. if you play piano sona is the easiest champ out there. just have to get used to the cooldown timings. there's no skillshots just positioning. I'm not hating on her though, I think she's well designed.

RothjDec 17, 20172 votes

How is that different from other champs that use their abilities off cd in teamfights that are point and click? Also want to add that that you have to actually auto in teamfights as sona to carry in higher elos.

PlacentasDec 17, 20174 votes

I mean you make a point, but it only really shows that there are other really low easy tier champions.

Take Ashe as an example. Her Q doesn't require aiming, or even positioning. Her W has a wide enough width that it's hardly a "skill shot". Her E doesn't even do damage, technically a "Skill shot" but not really. Her R is her only skill shot and once again the width on it is pretty big with a potentially large stun.

She's in the same boat as Sona. EZ asf, but that's the point of them. It doesn't make to play them at a god-tier level that there isn't skill involved, they're just easier to learn and generally "master".

MarshbouyDec 17, 20171 votes

After a certain point, it becomes hard to differentiate which champion is "the easiest" because all point and click champions are pretty easy.

C'mon though dude. Sona is pretty fucking easy.

RothjDec 17, 20172 votes

She has a low skillfloor - someone can pick her up and do okay. However she has a high skill ceiling. You can carry as sona easily by being good, probably a lot harder than other champs.

MarshbouyDec 17, 20172 votes

However she has a high skill ceiling

in comparison to whom?

Quil EvrythingDec 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The point Im making with this is if you play well with sona you will win and carry every single game EASILY. I bet you could smurf as sona and get an 80% win rate. If you are playing bad as sona, you will lose every game. If she did not take skill most people will sit at 50% with her which is not the case.

what you say is mostly true....

Unless you are stuck in the bowels of elo hell. in which case it doesnt matter squat what you do, because either your ADC will feed hard... or you get a sane adc, but your other 2 lanes feed, and there's nothign you can do about it.

She's awesome in games where your team reasonably knows what they are doing. She's useless as a true "carry". You cant carry a team of feeders with sona, because her clear is nonexistant, and likewise her tower damage.

All that is to say I agree with you. To be really effective with sona, you need to be very, very good at positioning. Down to a few pixels.

bywords70Dec 17, 20171 votes

just play sona mid and enjoy your freelo

RedCycloneDec 17, 20171 votes

As a Sona main since her release there is NO DENYING that Sona is super easy to use

However it starts becoming a different discussion when people use the excuse that because she is easy she should be terrible everywhere that isn't bronze, like she is currently... I was also one of the many voices wanting her to be given more skill expression but we all know Riot parsed that as making her literally faceroll with the urf passive