I mean, she's got a healing ranged power that deals quite a lot in the early game while also slows, she has a built in true damage and a half of the map range dash. Kinda feels broken when she one shots you on level 3 with dorans blade.
Kurt Hyzan6 votesF L A S H Y P L A Y Z L C S
IDEMO NA MUDA1 votesThat's all they care about. LCS. If someone on LCS picks it, fuck it, leave her broken. Who cares. She's great. We get money and people watch LCS, who cares about the actual players.
Bigrig1074 votesYou’re joking, right?
Azir basically isn’t a champion in the game anymore because too many people in LCS were playing him.
They’ve specifically said that they balance champions for both soloq and Pro levels.
IDEMO NA MUDA1 votesOne thing is what they say, other thing is what they do. You know how their balancing team works? They make a champion overbuffed to the god fucking heavens You cant 1v1 him no matter what champion you take in no matter what state of the game you are, and then you get that same champion nerfed to the ground where he cant 1v1 a support anymore.
Teridax686 votesMy ideal short-term change list for Camille:
With this, she should ideally have a less overbearing amount of control against her opponents, and should move away from burst and onto better persistent fighting power. I think Camille could be fine if she were a diver with good engage, good persistent damage and defenses, and one good isolation ability, but right now she blends in a lot of assassin power, namely burst and escapes, on top of too much CC and just a whole bunch of excessive mechanics in general. Paring these down could likely give her more depth overall (her E would be less of a get-out-of-jail-free card), while also reducing her complexity.
WTBeGirl100EUhr3 votesI like this change list in the sense that you're trying to balance her to make her less frustrating to play against without just neutering her, but it has some issues.
Q second hit no longer deals true damage but instead refreshes the buff, repeatable indefinitely, allowing Camille to keep landing empowered hits with the right timing.
Camille's Q CD at max CDR is only 3s and begins from first cast. As such, she can actually do this already, but lacks the sticking power to actually train people down in this manner outside of extended 1v1s. Whilst her initial gap-close is very powerful, most champions have the ability to peel her off for long enough that she's forced to ult to land her second Q, at which point she would have no access to re-engaging to land a 3rd Q until her E comes back up ~3 seconds later, when her Q will have reset.
W no longer heals or slows, but instead reduces her innate cooldown for each enemy champion she hits. Baseline damage reduced, bonus damage simply doubles the baseline damage, instead of adding max health damage. Cooldown reduced at later ranks.
Camille's laning phase is average to poor. She's very reliant both on the slow and the heal. Changing the %HP damage to flat damage will enable her to burst squishies harder, which seems counter-intuitive to this post. Removing the slow exacerbates the issues with the Q changes I already mentioned. Removing the heal, giving her an actively weak laning phase (which is perhaps appropriate given she scales well) is the only change that could possibly work.
E second dash only becomes available if an enemy champion is in range, otherwise Camille just drops to the ground. Neither dash can cross over walls, and the projectile stops upon hitting an enemy unit. Cooldown reduced at later ranks.
E CD is already reasonably short at later ranks and she maxes it first. You probably don't want to be lowering it. Being unable to cross walls with it would feel really bad as the Camille player, but is perhaps appropriate. I think both removing the ability to cross terrain as well as removing the second dash for defensive Es is probably too harsh in combination. First E dash cannot cross walls anyway unless you are displaced/flash over a wall.
R no longer provides bonus on-hit damage.
The on-hit damage is a tiny proportion of Camille's damage. It could probably be removed now, without any other changes, and her winrate would not change. As the only source of magic damage in her kit, it's easy to track. If you look at this recent match history: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/3660401035/210427159?tab=stats I did 400 damage with the ult in the entire game.
Base stats increased, with emphasis on her base AD and attack speed (preferably the latter), until she reaches good levels of success.
Doing this counteracts the weak laning phase that the W changes would introduce. Scaling stats might be more appropriate.
EDIT: Perhaps rather than removing the on-hit damage from her ultimate, we should be buffing it and taking damage out of her kit else-where. By forcing her to use her ult offensively, rather than as exclusively a lock-down/defensive tool it would help to mitigate the amount of utility she has.
Teridax681 votesCamille's Q CD at max CDR is only 3s and begins from first cast. As such, she can actually do this already, but lacks the sticking power to actually train people down in this manner outside of extended 1v1s. Whilst her initial gap-close is very powerful, most champions have the ability to peel her off for long enough that she's forced to ult to land her second Q, at which point she would have no access to re-engaging to land a 3rd Q until her E comes back up ~3 seconds later, when her Q will have reset.
The Q cooldown is 3.3 only at 45% CDR, and resets the bonus damage. By contrast, the effect I'm proposing would allow Camille to deal the doubled damage every 1.5 seconds if played well, which I think would be significantly different. I agree that many champions have peel abilities, but that is fine, as it simply means that using them at the right time would be more effective against her, whereas right now she counters a ton of self-peel effects pretty hard with her ult already.
Camille's laning phase is average to poor. She's very reliant both on the slow and the heal. Changing the %HP damage to flat damage will enable her to burst squishies harder, which seems counter-intuitive to this post. Removing the slow exacerbates the issues with the Q changes I already mentioned. Removing the heal, giving her an actively weak laning phase (which is perhaps appropriate given she scales well) is the only change that could possibly work.
Changing the percent health damage to flat damage would only enable anti-squishy burst if the new damage exceeded the old values at squishy-level health, which is not what I'm proposing. The intent here is to nerf Camille's burst damage against tanks, not to drastically buff her anti-squishy damage, which is also why I proposed nerfs to the base damage. I can agree that Camille's laning phase is not great, but then that's something primarily expressed through her sustain and damage, now her slow. If her laning phase happens to be too weak, then increasing the base damage at rank 1 would be more effective than the current iteration, as it'd enable her to win good trades harder, and changing her defenses from a self-heal to more frequent innate procs would also allow her to trade more frequently. With regards to her Q, Camille already has a movement speed boost on that ability, so if she really needs more to be able to catch up to her targets, that is another lever that can be pulled without needing a slow.
E CD is already reasonably short at later ranks and she maxes it first. You probably don't want to be lowering it. Being unable to cross walls with it would feel really bad as the Camille player, but is perhaps appropriate. I think both removing the ability to cross terrain as well as removing the second dash for defensive Es is probably too harsh in combination. First E dash cannot cross walls anyway unless you are displaced/flash over a wall.
I think the issue here is that the changes I'm proposing are being reviewed in isolation to each other, when they're meant to be viewed collectively. I don't really see how nerfing Camille's E cooldown would be too good, for example, when nerfing its free mobility is also seen as too harsh. I can agree that it would feel bad for any champion to suddenly have less free mobility, but then Camille is a champion with so much control over fights already that she does not need or deserve to escape combat at will. This is, in fact, a major reason why she is so frustrating right now. Because removing that unnecessary part of her mobility would constitute a net nerf to her mobility overall, this could be the perfect opportunity to enhance her engage and repositioning within combat, imo, namely by letting her dash around more frequently as long as an opponent is around.
The on-hit damage is a tiny proportion of Camille's damage. It could probably be removed now, without any other changes, and her winrate would not change. As the only source of magic damage in her kit, it's easy to track. If you look at this recent match history: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/3660401035/210427159?tab=stats I did 400 damage with the ult in the entire game.
Doing this counteracts the weak laning phase that the W changes would introduce. Scaling stats might be more appropriate.
EDIT: Perhaps rather than removing the on-hit damage from her ultimate, we should be buffing it and taking damage out of her kit else-where. By forcing her to use her ult offensively, rather than as exclusively a lock-down/defensive tool it would help to mitigate the amount of utility she has.
My main issue with the on-hit damage on Camille's ult, other than the fact that it's not terrifically visible, is that it doubles down on an already punishing ability: Camille is already locking her target into a small zone, and I don't think she really needs to have extra killing power versus that target on top of that. Overall, I'd rather Camille's gameplay to be that she has good killing power in general, but has trouble sticking super-hard to targets outside of her ult. Locking down a target I feel is a perfectly valid play, particularly since it requires Camille to stay put within the zone as well, and I'd rather increase the versatility of her ult in exchange for making it her only source of CC.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesPerhaps with the E, rather than lowering the base CD, giving her a refund on it if she hits an enemy with it, then making it a longer CD. Punishes her for using her E defensively.
Camille's ult on-hit damage does have a visual effect, as well as showing up as seperate damage numbers due to being magic damage. The visual effect is subtle because it's not much damage. Again, it's such a tiny proportion of her damage that I doubt you'll find anyone who plays Camille is going to care if it does get removed. It's exclusively a complaint made by people who don't play her, or don't understand where her damage comes from. You could make her ult do 100 up-front damage at all ranks and it'd be more powerful than the current iteration. Camille doesn't get in more than a few auto attacks (it's more important to stay on the target), her damage is reasonably front loaded (aside from second Q) and it's %CURRENT hp so your 40% hp squishy is not taking much damage from it.
As far as the W, you want to remove the heal, the slow, and nerf the damage on it vs. tanks, when it's already a DPS loss vs. auto attacking against squishies and is only currently used for the heal and the slow or to damage tanks. You've literally removed every use of it other than the fairly uninteractive spam poke in lane and squishy bursting. The only way to justify it is if you tune it so that it's not a DPS loss, which means you're adding to squishy bursting. Otherwise you're left with just a really poor ability. You can probably remove the heal or the slow. Don't remove both. For the record, it does 70 +6%HP at rank 1, which it will be until level 12. Using her own HP bar, the %hp damage is more than 70 damage from level 10. At rank 5, it will do more damage vs. anyone who has less than 2375 HP.
Essentially, it's %HP damage more to stop her from 1-shotting squishies than it is to help her kill tanks. Doing 8% (10% with a standard build) of a tank's HP is nice and all but it's not suddenly letting her break them. Changing it to flat damage is a bad idea.
Honestly, I'm all for her losing the %HP damage on R. It's unneccesary potential power that can have an impact when dueling tanks/bruisers but doesn't particularly synergise with her kit and currently does f/a anyway. If Riot want to nerf her a bit, just remove it now without making any other changes. Nothing will happen. The fact is that a Camille that is more ult reliant, and more reliant on getting multiple AAs other than Qs is probably healthier to play against than a Camille who only needs to land 2 AAs in her entire combo and as such removing her %HP damage probably isn't making her healthier to play against.
Teridax681 votesPerhaps with the E, rather than lowering the base CD, giving her a refund on it if she hits an enemy with it, then making it a longer CD. Punishes her for using her E defensively.
I really like this idea. It works with the whole notion of pushing Camille towards diving her targets, while nerfing her escape potential.
Camille's ult on-hit damage does have a visual effect, as well as showing up as seperate damage numbers due to being magic damage. The visual effect is subtle because it's not much damage. Again, it's such a tiny proportion of her damage that I doubt you'll find anyone who plays Camille is going to care if it does get removed. It's exclusively a complaint made by people who don't play her, or don't understand where her damage comes from. You could make her ult do 100 up-front damage at all ranks and it'd be more powerful than the current iteration. Camille doesn't get in more than a few auto attacks (it's more important to stay on the target), her damage is reasonably front loaded (aside from second Q) and it's %CURRENT hp so your 40% hp squishy is not taking much damage from it.
If the only way you can notice her on-hit damage is from cues other than the actual damage, i.e. separate visual indicators telling you that she's apparently doing more damage then, then the damage isn't appreciable enough on its own. Overall, I'd rather Camille just had stronger baseline autoattacking power, rather than an ult that also added damage.
As far as the W, you want to remove the heal, the slow, and nerf the damage on it vs. tanks, when it's already a DPS loss vs. auto attacking against squishies and is only currently used for the heal and the slow or to damage tanks. You've literally removed every use of it other than the fairly uninteractive spam poke in lane and squishy bursting. The only way to justify it is if you tune it so that it's not a DPS loss, which means you're adding to squishy bursting. Otherwise you're left with just a really poor ability. You can probably remove the heal or the slow. Don't remove both. For the record, it does 70 +6%HP at rank 1, which it will be until level 12. Using her own HP bar, the %hp damage is more than 70 damage from level 10. At rank 5, it will do more damage vs. anyone who has less than 2375 HP.
Except we're not talking about any precise amount of damage, and the simple solution to that is to just have it deal whichever amount of autoattack damage she'd deal in that time. At the end of the day, it's still AoE damage, and I'm proposing it to give her some more utility, so it's not like it'd ever be a wasted ability slot on her even if it becomes less loaded.
Essentially, it's %HP damage more to stop her from 1-shotting squishies than it is to help her kill tanks. Doing 8% (10% with a standard build) of a tank's HP is nice and all but it's not suddenly letting her break them. Changing it to flat damage is a bad idea.
I dislike this kind of reasoning because it generally makes little sense in practice. At the end of the day, you're still dealing a certain amount of damage to both squishies and tanks, and one can just as easily balance an ability around not bursting squishies by nerfing an effect's flat damage. The intent of any kind of percent health damage is not to help out squishies, but to allow the user to deal high damage to tanks instead, and so by devaluing their defense purchases. Again, the fact that I am proposing a nerf to the ability's flat damage, and to have the ability match her autoattack damage output around that period of time (bearing in mind that autoattacks deal flat damage as well), should be a clear indicator that I clearly do not want to make Camille burst squishies harder.
The fact is that a Camille that is more ult reliant, and more reliant on getting multiple AAs other than Qs is probably healthier to play against than a Camille who only needs to land 2 AAs in her entire combo and as such removing her %HP damage probably isn't making her healthier to play against.
I agree that a Camille who has to autoattack more and rely less on burst is a healthier champion, which is why I proposed the above changes. However, I don't think removing her percent health/true damage changes that, as I am simply aiming to remove her burst against tanks. I do not think it is at all justified for any kind of effect to automatically devalue someone else's identity, yet this is what target-agnostic damage does. With this in mind, I'd rather balance Camille around dealing reasonably-paced damage against squishies using flat damage: if tanks somehow end up being too tanky for Camille, or any champion with just flat damage to handle, then the issue lies with tankiness, and it would be better to nerf that directly, rather than inject true/percent health damage into virtually every kit.
WTBeGirl100EUhr1 votesIf the only way you can notice her on-hit damage is from cues other than the actual damage, i.e. separate visual indicators telling you that she's apparently doing more damage then, then the damage isn't appreciable enough on its own.
This is kind of my point with the on-hit damage from the ult being removable without it affecting her whatsoever.
The other issue is this. Camille's damage comes in 2 bursts, once at the start (E, W if pre-casted, AA-Q-Tiamat), and once after a delay (Q2). Her actual DPS is not out of line. As currently designed, she's fundamentally a caster who uses abilities to deal her damage, no different to a Zed or a Talon. She has effects in her kit (AS steroid, on-hit damage) that are supposed to move her towards being an auto-attack DPS but the rest of her kit doesn't particularly support it. MS steroids are useful in 1v1s, but in teamfights it's unlikely that she can dive in without at least getting slowed. Successful AA-based melees either have sustained mobility (Fiora, Yasuo), CC (Xin Zhao), or some kind of CC immunity (Yi, Olaf). She lacks sustained mobility (she has powerful one-off mobility), her stun on E is short (0.75s) and a lot of champions can kite her around her ult (insert most ADCs here) if she doesn't just nuke them.
and the simple solution to that is to just have it deal whichever amount of autoattack damage she'd deal in that time This is significantly more damage than Camille currently does with W, and she can cast W during her E animation if she wants to burst someone.
Teridax681 votesThis is kind of my point with the on-hit damage from the ult being removable without it affecting her whatsoever.
The other issue is this. Camille's damage comes in 2 bursts, once at the start (E, W if pre-casted, AA-Q-Tiamat), and once after a delay (Q2). Her actual DPS is not out of line. As currently designed, she's fundamentally a caster who uses abilities to deal her damage, no different to a Zed or a Talon. She has effects in her kit (AS steroid, on-hit damage) that are supposed to move her towards being an auto-attack DPS but the rest of her kit doesn't particularly support it. MS steroids are useful in 1v1s, but in teamfights it's unlikely that she can dive in without at least getting slowed. Successful AA-based melees either have sustained mobility (Fiora, Yasuo), CC (Xin Zhao), or some kind of CC immunity (Yi, Olaf). She lacks sustained mobility (she has powerful one-off mobility), her stun on E is short (0.75s) and a lot of champions can kite her around her ult (insert most ADCs here) if she doesn't just nuke them.
She does have sustained mobility on her Q, though, and at the end of the day, her W is the only ability that fits a caster paradigm more than that of an autoattacker. Her Q is an autoattack modifier, her E is mobility, and her ult is crowd control. She has inbuilt defenses that can be scaled as needed, too. Camille is a champion innately designed to autoattack, and I don't see how removing her burst would be a bad thing.
This is significantly more damage than Camille currently does with W, and she can cast W during her E animation if she wants to burst someone.
So first of all, this is not true, as Camille's W damage exceeds her basic attack damage, and only drops below if she misses the outer edge. This is not something that needs to change with flat damage, and in fact doing so would make for clearer comparison. Second, what exactly is your point? First you tell me that I'm overnerfing her W because it's a DPS loss against squishies, next you tell me that I'm overbuffing it by supposedly making it burst squishies too hard via flat damage. What is the truth?
Cowgirl Ed4 votesChamp needs to be nerfed to the ground it's one of the most broken right now
IDEMO NA MUDA2 votesAgreed.
Morgana Q Misser4 votesShe can be counter picked super hard and just feed when she falls behind. All of her power comes from item power spikes (
). Play Fiora/Conqueror Renekton/Jax into her, even Darius can be good into her
Also her Q is an auto attack buff, if you start 
and first buy 
she'll have real trouble killing you if she maxes E
Her hookshot has reduced range if she doesn't aim at champions so as an escape tool it's not the best. Consider Talon's escape, Jax's ward jump, Renekton's double dash if he hits an enemy, they're all as good, if not better than Camille's E.
Remember her power spike, the bonus dmg applies to first Q and empowered Q
You played AP Shaco Top vs her (15/06/2018 Plat flex 5v5 EUNE btw) with no flash and rushed hextech revolver so she killed you at 10min, killed you at 12min, got first tower at 13min and completed Trinity, she was very fed after that and carried the game. She maxed W and had no resolve tree runes
IDEMO NA MUDA2 votesI'm not talking about that particular match, for christ sake i played a goddamn Shaco. But a champion itself, a Camille, is pretty broken.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesYeah and shaco does very well against her. She can basically never engage without killing herself. You do something horribly wrong to die so often.
IDEMO NA MUDA1 votesUm, Shaco is garbage lol
Oelyk3 votesI play Camille a rather lot, albeit I have not been playing a lot of league recently. I see a lot of camille hate posts blatantly over-exaggerating her issues, and confusing strengths without recognizing weaknesses(despite her astounding lack of them compared to other champions).
First off, They cant change the E range, nor the fact that her Q does true damage, that would be like reworking Aatrox without giving him any way to heal. It's an integral part of her kit that really plays up her late game prowess as a split pusher and duelist/skirmisher, what they can do is readjust how her lane safety tools work, being her passive and Q.
A lot of interactions with Camille lanes are her poking, or trading autos, with little to no retaliation due to these tools. She can wait till the enemy uses their own tools and answer further with her own, ensuring she will win most trades. So switching her passive into a form that forces her to use an ability to activate, which her E and W have long CD's early game, will ensure less free trades just with a few autos. Additionally, her W comet synergy is super strong, now this is a little farfetched, but I believe the slow should be situational. If the enemy is facing you it doesn't slow, but if they are not, it should. This should give more incentive to engage and not fear a big slow ruining that moment when she goes to poke, while keeping the fact that she can still use it as a tool to catch running enemies. Alternatively, it could run on a different "mark" mechanism so that the slow doesn't trigger, or is severely lessened without said mark. Mark could be applied by simply auto attacking, not my favorite suggestion but may be worth investigating.
Yes Camille is strong, but don't suggest taking away things that frustrate you.
IDEMO NA MUDA2 votesNerfing W damage in early game, E cooldown up to Zed's W cooldown, Q damage nerf in early game Basically nerf her early game damage cause that shit is fucking broken on laning phase.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesWhen after 3 she gets outdamaged by literally every champ in the toplane. Yeah right.
JRobin311 votes"Can you do anything about Camille, riot balancing team?"
The answer to your question is 'no'.
thecowley1 votesI play a lot of Camille. I've been climbing rank with her and ekko.
She punishes mispositions hard. She is looking to flank and lock you down. Good warding will stop her jg/mid from ganking you. The other part is abusing her cooldowns. If you can bait an e (her mobility) to set up your own ganks, she will drop. Even with sheen, the cooldown on her e is 10 secs or more early, and her w is only 1 or 2 secs shorter in the early game.
Bait her into trying to use w to heal, and her e defensively, and you can farm easier and keep her from always topping her health off after early trades
AirKingNeo1 votesKinda feels broken when she one shots you on level 3 with dorans blade.
Camille's early game is weak, so that isn't happening
IDEMO NA MUDA1 votesLOL WHAT Are you sarcastic right now? Please tell me you are
AirKingNeo1 votesYes, ask any high elo player. Camille's early game isn't that strong. She needs Sheen to play lane, and she needs Trinity to start spiking, Even Jax has a better early game.
IDEMO NA MUDA2 votesi dont need to ask any high elo player, i consider myself as a high elo player due to a fact that im a diamond 3 support main currently. Also, she can outpoke basically every champion on toplane except gnar, and she has a built in dash that has a huge range making it ideal for gank responses or just running away.
AirKingNeo1 votes>support main
>talking about top lane laning phase
IDEMO NA MUDA1 votesimplying that as any other lane main, you cant have any knowledge of other lanes