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You can't disagree with Faker's thoughts on matchmaking

IDEMO NA MUDA··38 votes·16,633 views

As you all know, or maybe not, Faker has said something that's so obvious to everyone in the league community to the point of having their minds blown by a fact that Riot Games can't acknowledge this issue and fix it. Matchmaking. Throughout the seasons, you certainly noticed the amount of time you spend in a queue is significantly lesser than it used to be. It is highly noticeable in soloQ higher elo games. Diamond+, that is. Back in around 2015, as Faker said, the queue times were long, approximately i personally have waited for around 7+ minutes to get a game which isn't that long if you are used to it. After that 7 minutes of waiting, if i was Diamond 2, i would get D3-D1 players in my game and that was the best matchmaking League had back in the day. Nowadays, in order to lower to queue time wait, they extended the division boundaries so if i was a Diamond 2 player, i would get queued up with Diamond 4 or even Diamond 5 players which is in high elo an obvious loss. In lower elo, such as gold, silver, maybe bronze, i dont quite remember, that isn't a HUGE deal since there can always be situations you can do on your lane and snowball from there. In higher elo, if their botlane is diamond 2 and your botlane is diamond 5, you are doomed. No matter what you do, your game is lost. Unless your jungler is extremely good so u, as a midlaner and your toplane snowball to the heavens and hard carry the game which happens in 0.02% of the games. That being said, the only thing left to do is wonder why are Riot Games not acknowledging and working on this pretty big issue the game currently has ( besides the balancing team ) which also makes the game insanely frustrating for someone who's trying to climb up the ladder and gain some decent elo. For the final example, you may have noticed if you are checking up on the usual League streamers such as NB3, IWD, Qtpie and others that they aren't doing the "Challenger in one week" type of series anymore as they used to.

113 Comments

Attticus Finch15 votes

"They increased the ELO range in matchmaking in order to shorten queue times". Brevity is the soul of intelligence.

Riot hasn't acknowledged it because it's a deliberate design choice.

It's not an issue. In 99% of ELOs the skill difference between one or two division is minimal. A gold 1 player is not significantly more skilled at the game then a Gold 5 player etc. Stop using the existence of players a tier or two below you on your team as an excuse for losing.

3TWarrior22 votes

a tier might not cause a problem, but an entire rank might

Ifneth4 votes

{quoted}

a tier might not cause a problem, but an entire rank might

Nitpick: Tiers are Bronze, Silver, Gold. “rank,” which is properly called Division, is Bronze V, Bronze IV, Bronze III, etc.

3TWarrior1 votes

seems kind of odd as a rank would be an official number or clasification such as private, corporal, sergeant, etc and division would describe where you are located or what section of something the thing in question belongs to

though I might have been a bit hasty just replying with their own words

Rhai4 votes

This is brought to you by the same people that put challengers above masters

Inari Fox Orrion10 votes

Ask anyone, even Silver 5 and Silver 2 have vast differences. I feel like you're not seeing the whole picture; It becomes more and more of a problem when more and more ranks blend into one-another because Riot decided that people in equal tiers (and therfor about equal skill) don't deserve to be matched together.

Teriyaki Bukkake4 votes

"In 99% of ELOs the skill difference between one or two division is minimal." I would - and im sure the majority would - disagree to this very heavily.

Spank the Fox2 votes

The majority are idiots anyways.

IDEMO NA MUDA5 votes

There's absolutely no reason for you to call anyone an idiot, and on top of it, that majority is correct in this case. You can't tell me that playing with plat player as diamond 3 player is fine. No one can.

Blåbæret5 votes

Matchmaking is a huge deal in low elo as well. Obviously it's an issue where you have games With people ranging from low bronze to high silver (and even gold sometimes).

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

This doesn't happen at all. The difference between tiers is 1. You can't play as Bronze with a Gold player.

Blåbæret2 votes

Ye, it happens literally all the time.

Tomoe Gozen2 votes

{quoted}

Ye, it happens literally all the time.

So give me some semblance of evidence on your part that it does. According to your op.gg profile, you don't even have enough Ranked games to know that but from the ONLY TWO i can see, you're matched with Silver players as a Silver player. There's one Gold 4 in there and that's it. No higher Golds/Platinum and no Bronze.

I have no idea where you're getting this information from but it's not from your own experience. So it's far likely you've just accepted someone else's "testimony" as your own and it's also far more likely they've said the same thing without even glancing at their op.gg profile themselves. Don't spread misinformation if you're not certain.

CloudedLogic2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HbqPOBP5,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-10T14:39:34.718+0000)

So give me some semblance of evidence on your part that it does. According to your op.gg profile, you don't even have enough Ranked games to know that but from the ONLY TWO i can see, you're matched with Silver players as a Silver player. There's one Gold 4 in there and that's it. No higher Golds/Platinum and no Bronze.

I have no idea where you're getting this information from but it's not from your own experience. So it's far likely you've just accepted someone else's "testimony" as your own and it's also far more likely they've said the same thing without even glancing at their op.gg profile themselves. Don't spread misinformation if you're not certain.

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2761297215/201521501?tab=overview

At the time I believe the top lanes were G5 (ours), and G1 or P5 (theirs). I was silver 4, and my duo was bronze 3 (we still are).

In a non-ranked setting I have been matched up with nearly every rank at least once.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

Did you just link me a Normal game? Matchmaking for Ranked and Normal ELO isn't the same.

A Diamond ranked player isn't necessarily the same rank in Normal games. It's far more likely they're playing an off-role and a champion they're not as good as they are in their ranked ELO. As a matter of fact, Riot's making new role/position based matchmaking, which means that you don't have to be an exclusive solo lane player in ranked and never get a chance to play other roles without actually putting your "main" ELO on the line, if you want to particularly branch out.

Tomoe Gozen5 votes

I can disagree on what Faker said easily. In his ELO, even a small disparity between player skill is detrimental while in our ELO, it's not even close. So don't just hop on his bandwagon because these are two different ELO tiers to consider when you're matchmaking - Challenger ELO and normie ELO.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

I am a diamond 3 elo player so i find myself competent to talk about a bit higher elo. And as a diamond 3 player, i assure you that playing with diamond 5 player who is "just" two division bellow me, he's most certainly bad when playing in my elo. Play mid as a diamond 3 against diamond 3 mid, while you are having a diamond 5 jungler and they are having a diamond 2/3 jungler. See if you can win your lane, and after all, the game itself. Good luck with that buddy.

Azadethe2 votes

Kind of depends on whether he's D V and climbing or hardstuck there. At best, he won't feed, but also won't contribute much. At worst, he'll feed and the game spirals out of control so fast you can't regain the balance.

I know when I'm out of elo up there, I'm generally the prior. I'm good at not dying and making a few squeeze plays, but if I'm outclassed, I know the best thing I can do for the team is not feed those first 3-4 deaths. I prob can't pull 3-4 skill cancels per combo and use walls like Faker at all, but I can usually place myself well enough to compensate without too much effort.

My biggest problem is probably that as a jungler, I'm drawn to champs who don't have a lot of early game mobility like Evelynn That makes the jungle dynamic a little different. Tend to get invaded by 2-3 champs at once, because they know they can bully her, and at best I can try to invade their jungle while they invade mine, or get them to chase me long enough that they are starved for levels, and not getting kills or CS.

I'm playing Pyke right now so that dynamic's changed a little bit. Still scary long cooldowns early game though.

Azadethe2 votes

He said a lot more than just about rank comparisons.

He talked to the behavior of solo queue players as a whole and the need to be a "Carry" not a "Good player" to win solo queue.

Which is true. You're not going to beat 50% with most supports or non aggressive mids/tops/junglers in high elo if you aren't playing a champion who carries, even if you are a good player.

The skill difference becomes so little but so important that .... when you aren't playing a carry, "average players of an elo" will crap all over you, even if your skill is better. But if you're a good player playing a carry versus average players of an elo, you can dominate and surpass 50% win rates.

In Structured Play, this isn't a problem.... because teams are built to synergize each other and you know your co-players. You go in and can play non carries..... because your team will augment your kit extremely well and help compensate for you not being a carry.

This discussion can apply to Flex play of any elo. You'll notice people who focus on making 5 man teams in Flex... and aren't just casuals.... far surpass the teams with a 3 man premade with 1-2 fillers. They can play non carries and perform better than the teams who play carries, because they have a general idea of how their team works. This even happens in Silver/Gold.

I know how Solo Queue works pretty intimately. I Main support, and when I Smurf in Silver/Gold as a support, I'm usually running a 6-8 KDA average with a 67-70% Kill participation. But that doesn't mean I win 80% of my games at that elo. Because I'm playing support, I generally only get around a 58% - 62%win rate as support.

But if I play a Hyper carry Jungler, or Mid, you can bet I'm going to push 78-81%. I'm only about Gold IV on Adc, so I don't make bets on that role.

Ayzev4 votes

[{quoted}](name=BløødHarbor Þyke,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HbqPOBP5,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-06-09T21:53:47.476+0000)

why are Riot Games not acknowledging and working on this pretty big issue

League is owned by some Asian company and is very popular in the east, and internet cafes are a big thing over there too, and they charge customers per hour, so each League match taking up as little time as possible makes it easier for a lot of Asians to play more League. Or at least that seems to be the only reasonable explanation I have heard. But I'm not sure how valid it really is, since if you're going to sacrifice the enjoyment people get out of the game, it kind of becomes pointless to make it more accessible, because people lose the reason why they wanted to play the game in the first place.

IcyPepper4 votes

How much influence does Tencent have over League of Legends anyway? That's the real question.

For all we know, Riot is making these decisions themselves by their own will.

Karunamon13 votes

Man, who knows. All we can pry out of Riot are extremely situational answers about one or two champions, but absolutely fuck all about the larger direction and issues.

LeTS nErF TuRrEtS aGaIn! ThAtS wHaT eVeRyOnE wAnTeD rIgHt?

3TWarrior2 votes

no one knows, but coincidentally, when riot started changing their design philosophies in season five is also when they were bought out of their last 10% by tencent

MetalGearTeemo1 votes

sshhhhh

revliledpembroke4 votes

Fuck you I can't! I'm so disagreeable, I disagree with everything!

Lepone3 votes

Riot really needs to address the fact that lower ELO players that are getting boosted make life harder for those that actually made it to their rank, and yes a 1-2 rank in any division is a difference.

JRobin312 votes

I can't really disagree with Faker on matchmaking at high rank. If he says the matches are not decent unless you wait longer to get matched, then he is probably correct. I think that it's fine to have shorter queue times in lower ranks (where I play) where there are more players of that rank and it makes sense that as you go up in rank your queue times should get longer. There are fewer players at that rank.

KoKoboto1 votes

I don't think bot lane has insane effect on game like before at least.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

I just gave botlane as an example. Take junglers. If your jungle is a plat 2 player and enemy jungler is diamond 2, both maining jungle, who you think is gonna win?

dim2a1 votes

[{quoted}](name=BløødHarbor Þyke,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HbqPOBP5,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-06-10T16:57:03.797+0000)

I just gave botlane as an example. Take junglers. If your jungle is a plat 2 player and enemy jungler is diamond 2, both maining jungle, who you think is gonna win?

As a plat jungler, I can tell you that being vs. a diamond jungler is not as intimidating as if, say, your midlaner is down a tier. In fact I'd happily vs. a jungler whole tier above me if my midlaner has a couple of divisions on their midlaner -- if you're jg main, there are ways to mitigate the other jungler being ahead or better much more so than in mid or top.

IDEMO NA MUDA2 votes

In my personal opinion, junglers are the most important role in the game. If your jungle has extremely good map awareness, jungle sense ( meaning he knows where their jungler is, and when / where is he going to gank next due to a good expecting skills and deep enemy jungle warding ) you can easily carry your game with your mid lane if he is decent. I have played Zed on soloQ ( diamond 2 at the time ) while my toplane was 0/2, my botlane was beyond feeding, and i was just fine, without deaths, 0/0. My jungler was Kha Zix, diamond 2 while their jungler was diamond 4. The amount of map pressure their jungler had comparing to my jungle was void. Their jungler ganked twice on bot giving two double kills for their botlane and after that he just afk farmed while my Kha Zix secured me a good snowball on mid allowing me to roam together with him on botlane and toplane while legitimately carrying 2 of us as two assassins against their entire team.

rtbf2216514121 votes

I like how the community talks about this and refuses to admit that autofill exacerbates the problem.

Azadethe3 votes

Autofill is a hell of a lot better than a Queue page where people "Dibs" a role and then two people troll each other or lock in jungle at the same time (Or some other role)

Or when someone "Dibs" support and someone else takes it, and then the person who didn't get it whines and trolls because the player knew they wanted it.

rtbf2216514121 votes

Let us go through every single thing you said here:

{quoted}

Autofill is a hell of a lot better than a Queue page where people "Dibs" a role and then two people troll each other

Instead of the player dibing, the system randomly picks for you from a hat draw. Thus, in turn, possibly giving you a role you haven't played in months. Therefore, also putting you from a, for example, Diamond main Jungle (carried yourself with ADC to diamond) to a silver main ADC (Your skill level is that of ADC).

{quoted}

or lock in jungle at the same time (Or some other role)

Autofill doesn't effect blind pick.

{quoted}

Or when someone "Dibs" support and someone else takes it

They can't take it unless it is blind pick. In draft, this is only possible by locking in a champion that is support, for example, into a jungle role, forcing the other player to choose something other than what the autofill intended.

{quoted}

and then the person who didn't get it whines and trolls because the player knew they wanted it.

I haven't seen this as often as the other.

Blind pick =/= Draft. Don't compare Ranked to Blind Pick.

Azadethe4 votes

You don't seem to understand. Pre Dynamic Queue WAS Blind pick, with the addition of Bans.

It was literally 5 random people with no assigned roles going into a queue together, calling Dibs during the Ban Cycle, and then picking down the draft list.

Draft pick has underwent serious changes in 2011, 2016, 2017, and 2018. Season 1 -5 Had a draft system with only 2-3 bans per team.

The Ban pickers were the first players in the roster (so you could get unlucky, not be one of the first two pickers, 10 games in a row, and not get the power to ban)

Then.... the same player order got to choose roles as they went down the verticle roster FREELY. Hence all the problems I mentioned.

Here's a video of what it used to be like pre 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXQrfhFRnI

Aka..... Blind format picking with bans picked in a specific order (You could have 5 Support players on one team and 4 would have to choose to play something else)

2016 introduced the current pre Queue Role selecting and the autofill feature. HOWEVER..... it also introduced premade teams. Except they were part of the regular Queue Process. You could make a premade 5 man team in regular ranked.... So..... they scrapped that "Dynamic Queue" and separated it out into Flex and Solo/Duo.

What I'm trying to say is..... pre 2016, we were ALL Autofill. Every game. Which is why games back them were easy to snowball, even more massive ban bait, and only people who either constructed a pro team, or were good technically at ALL roles could climb.

Otherwise you had to start up front in a Queue telling your team, "Don't take Jungle! I'm a smurf and I'll Carry you!" (Even then you were often ignored and someone else took jung, and fed their butts off)

Watch the video. Read the text in the middle of the window. Literally the first thing people did when they got into Queue was...... blair: ADC ADC. JUNG JUNG.

If your latency was bad, good luck calling Dibs on your role.

P.S. Keep in mind next Season they're planning on making Autofll kind of obsolete by ranking you based on the role you play.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

You don't seem to understand. Pre Dynamic Queue WAS Blind pick, with the addition of Bans.

Was this around Season 5? Or before? It looks vaguely familiar but I can't figure out why.

Azadethe2 votes

Season 1-5 had it in ranked. Season 3 Added it to Normal play and created the non ranked Draft.

They were both basically Blind pick except the opponent could see what you were picking, and you had bans.

Otherwise no one was assigned roles, That was for you to figure out.

Pika Fox1 votes

I fail to see the issue. Players value shorter queue times more than they value closer placed games. Its a non issue below master tier, and above master no one wants to wait 40 mins in queue, especially since a lot of them stream, meaning their viewers dont want to wait half an hour between games.

karolmo2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HbqPOBP5,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-06-10T20:15:26.136+0000)

I fail to see the issue. Players value shorter queue times more than they value closer placed games. Its a non issue below master tier, and above master no one wants to wait 40 mins in queue, especially since a lot of them stream, meaning their viewers dont want to wait half an hour between games.

Fuck shorter queue times don't give me a hardstuck plat5 adc on my plat 2 series

Pika Fox1 votes

This is only a master tier+ issue. Nothing changed below that. Also, LUL at complaining about a plat 5 in plat 2 games. Youre literally the same skill level.

Banuvan2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HbqPOBP5,comment-id=001100010000,timestamp=2018-06-10T23:50:28.695+0000)

This is only a master tier+ issue. Nothing changed below that. Also, LUL at complaining about a plat 5 in plat 2 games. Youre literally the same skill level.

You are so very wrong that it doesn't matter elsewhere. It certainly does. Watching a bronze 1/silver 5 bot lane play against a gold 5 bot lane ( there is a big difference there even if you don't want to think so ) is painful. I've had everything from bronze 5 - gold 4 players in my games at silver 2. It also doesn't help that silver has 50% of the ranked population which makes games even worse because you truly can get a person who is ranked silver 2 yet belongs in bronze 2 because they got lucky in placements. Hell, nobody even gets placed in bronze from placements anymore.

Fact is that Faker is saying what many people have been saying for a long time and it's been blow off because "bronze/silver/gold/plat noob stfu and git gud!". Now that Faker has said it it's getting notice. Also, you aren't even ranked so what do you know about ranked? If this is a second account then quit being a pansy and post on your main account instead of hiding like a chump.

IDEMO NA MUDA2 votes

[deleted]

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

Not to mention that you actually went 2/4 with Kled against bots.

Pika Fox1 votes

Which, my support kled game where i dicked around and gave my lane mate kills on a champ i literally played for the first time? Wow, seems i did my job.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

Dying against bots in the first place is quite questionable.

Pika Fox1 votes

Oh please, because im going to be spr srs on a meme all in champ ive never played before against bots.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

I genuinely don't care what you do on normal games, PvE games or whatever the hell are you playing. Your division doesn't make you competent to talk about high elo in any sort of matter. You can just copy people like IWD or whoever the hell are those who are talking about elo while themselves are being a diamond+ player.

Pika Fox1 votes

Ad hominem isnt an argument. Im still correct. If you arent master+ this literally has 0 effect on you because of how queue works.

IDEMO NA MUDA1 votes

How in the goddamn world can you absolutely seriously talk about ranked queues especially in a high elo such as master while not even playing ranked for Christ sake stop trying to make yourself sound smart you're literally just proving how stupid all of this sounds.

Pika Fox1 votes

Because i actually pay attention to red posts and how things in LoL work. Theres enough people up until high diamond that youre going to get people close to your skill level. Just because you have no idea what youre talking about and havnt made a single point other than ad hominem doesnt mean others dont pay attention.

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