Why do people prefer this meta over tank meta? Why do you prefer no skills one-shot instead of actual teamfights? Why do you prefer early game nexus instead of early, mid and late game? I know you play assasins, but even in tank meta you can kill the squishy ones with enough skill. Your job isn't to kill tanks instantly.
Frosted Tips40 votesThere is a difference between tank meta and what you are describing. Tank meta was when Top, Jungle, Possibly Mid, and Possibly Support were tanks. Tank items were cheap and super efficient compared to any other items. Building tank was just better on most champions than building damage. At one point I had like a 90% winrate on Diana Jungle and my first two complete items where Iceborn and Cinderhulk. No one likes that.
Now a meta where 0-2 tanks per team and 1-2 dps and 1 burst/poke mage or assassin and maybe some fighter fine I'm down that would be great but please no wet noodle fights across the entire map.
Marothennan2 votesCouldn't have said it better
Hibeki19 voteswhat you want isnt a tank meta.
Thats an even distribution ironically being labelled a tank meta. If anything besides 5 dps is a 'tank meta' theres a problem.
Frosted Tips18 votesYou are spot on I'm glad I got the point across to you. Everyone keeps saying tank meta but they don't mean that they just want tanks to be viable and so do I. People just need to choose their words properly.
Teridax681 votesIndeed, this seems to be the core mentality problem at hand. I suspect the people opposed to a tank meta are actually a vocal minority (e.g. Foxdrop and... who else?), but the people who do oppose it seem to be fundamentally against the idea of a meta where any champion is truly durable, a mentality Riot has been catering to by making tanks squishier and more damaging in the past few years. For sure, there were problems with the tank meta around the Cinderhulk era, but the problem most of the people here point out is how damage champions like Ekko and Fizz were stacking health and being super unhealthy (which nobody wants), whereas what Riot seems most afraid of is that matches during that time lasted slightly longer. If a game where tanks are properly balanced around being tanky is a game where matches last 35-40 minutes, then chances are that matches are fundamentally designed to last that long. If one wants shorter matches, the solution should be to comprehensively restructure Summoner's Rift to implement that, not just accelerate snowballing, nerf tank durability and call it a day.
Frosted Tips1 votesSorry I'm confused on what your point is. Because it doesn't seem to match up with what I said at all. I'm saying a Tank Meta by nature is the wrong way to look at it. People should look at it as I want 0-2 tanks per team probably leaning towards 1-2 and only 0 in rare situations. That is not a Tank Meta that is just Tanks being played most games.
Teridax681 votesThis is also the point I'm arguing:
Frosted Tips1 votesThe Cinderhulk era was called a "tank meta" because everyone built tanky, including champions who weren't supposed to, and that's not what a tank meta is.
I would argue that is one form a a Tank Meta but I see what you mean.
People who decry the advent of a "tank meta" are simply afraid of a meta where tanks are viable. To these people, there is strictly no difference between tanks being viable (and good at actually tanking), and tanks being dominant.
I feel like there is still confusion about what I original said. If a meta was to be classified as a Tank Meta it would mean that tanks are running rampant and over prevalent. Now a meta where tanks are viable and actually tanky is what I was advocating for.
Teridax681 votesI feel like there is still confusion about what I original said. If a meta was to be classified as a Tank Meta it would mean that tanks are running rampant and over prevalent. Now a meta where tanks are viable and actually tanky is what I was advocating for.
That is literally my point. My point is that a meta where tanks are viable is desirable to many, but a vocal minority of people are calling the very possibility of that meta a "tank meta", by intentionally conflating the viability of tanks with the dominance of tanks. This confusion is intentional on the part of the people complaining against the risk of a "tank meta", because what they're saying is they don't want tanks to be dominant, but what they mean is they don't want tanks to be viable as actual tanks.
Frosted Tips1 votesThis confusion is intentional on the part of the people complaining against the risk of a "tank meta", because what they're saying is they don't want tanks to be dominant, but what they mean is they don't want tanks to be viable as actual tanks.
I just don't understand how that confusion could be intentional by the people who are complaining against a Tank Meta the confusion arises from the people saying the want a "Tank Meta" when they mean they want tanks to be able to tank and be a role within the team but not be most of the roles on the team.
Teridax681 votesPeople complaining against the viability of tanks are intentionally conflating dominance and viability, by calling any meta where tanks are viable a "tank meta" and pushing against it. This is separate from people reappropriating the term because to them a "tank meta" simply means a meta in which tanks are viable. In both cases, there is confusion, because an "X meta" generally means X is a dominant class, but this confusion is unintentional on the part of people advocating for tanks, and intentional on the part of those pushing against them. Does that make sense?
Frosted Tips1 votesThis is separate from people reappropriating the term because to them a "tank meta" simply means a meta in which tanks are viable. In both cases, there is confusion, because an "X meta" generally means X is a dominant class, but this confusion is unintentional on the part of people advocating for tanks
It has been consistent that "X Meta" means X is too dominant so if you use "X Meta" for x to be viable then you are blatantly misusing the phrase. So the problem starts with people misusing the phrase "X Meta" not the people replying to the phrase as they have been exposed to it in the past.
Teridax681 votesAgain, this is literally the point I am making. An "X meta" is shorthand for saying X class is dominant, but there has been confusion on all sides specifically in the case of the term "Tank meta", because the term is being used to describe the possibility of a meta in which tanks are viable, not dominant. The term is used improperly on all sides, sometimes by people who genuinely want tanks to be viable, and sometimes by people who don't.
BLIGHTBRINGER1 votesTo be honest I feel like every champion class needs to be optional and not essential.
They attempted to do this with Marksman (which somewhat worked for some time).
Right now in this meta, Assassin's are always good to pick up. I think in Season 9 Riot should focus on having teams plan what they need instead of being always able to play the same class and hope for success.
It's a similar case of, you see a lot of Assassin's on the enemy team, so it would be right to pick 1-2 tank/s (1 Jungle, 1 Support) and 1- fighter (Top) and 1-2 Mages (Mid and Bot) for battle disruption (CC & Damage). Because picking a Marksman would be like declaring self death sentence.
However I do believe that not being able to pick what you want to play should go away, but certain classes (Assassin's) need to be lesser important.
Colton14723 votesTank metas are the best metas, as they allow all classes to be viable.
Assassins and burst mages need to pick the time to assassinate/burst their target and not basically mash their keyboard like they do now to get a kill. Kills should not be freely given and should be rewarded through hard work.
ADCs are viable.
All supports are viable.
All juggernauts/bruisers/fighters are viable.
All mages are viable.
Frosted Tips9 votesThis is not true Tank meta does not mean everyone is viable it means tanks are the best at the time. What you guys are describing is different than what "tank meta" means. When a tank meta exists dps is viable so crit marksman only and mages like cassiopeia. Burst mages and poke mages really can't do anything. Fighters just lose to tanks when tanks are strong that is how a tank meta forms. And supports become tanks or enchantes for their crit marksman. During tank metas you will never see mf or any other early game marksman.
Daddy Ants7 votesDuring tank metas you will never see mf or any other early game marksman.
Good.
A meta without Dark Harvest MF doing 80% of your HP late game with a Q is welcomed.
I'm sick of seeing MF, Jhin and Draven every game
I miss laning vs Tristana, Twitch, Kog etc.
Frosted Tips7 votesWithout a Tank Meta that can exist. Tanks can be viable without a meta that is dominated by tanks I don't get how that is so hard to understand. Tank meta sucks, this meta sucks, and ardent meta sucked I just want everyone do be viable without anyone class/ item being too dominant.
Whisperwind231 votesTank metas are the best metas, as they allow all classes to be viable.
Assassins and burst mages need to pick the time to assassinate/burst their target and not basically mash their keyboard like they do now to get a kill. Kills should not be freely given and should be rewarded through hard work.
ADCs are viable.
All supports are viable.
All juggernauts/bruisers/fighters are viable.
All mages are viable.
Not true
Late game ADCs are Viable only
Only Tank/enchanter supports are viable
Only tanks are viable by definition of "tank meta" so no, juggernauts/bruisers/fighters are not viable because they will get outscaled by tanks
Only poke mages / utility mages are viable. Burst mages are completely unviable in this meta
The only Assassins that are viable are ones that can go tank(IE tank Ekko).
Sounds to me like you do not know what a tank meta actually is.
MadViking11 votesThe tank meta wasn't as bad as it is now IMO.
Resistances aren't as valuable as they use to be and you basically just have to build flat HP to counter the current True damage people get from Conqueror, IE, or built into kits. Lot's of "true" dmg but no "true" defense.
Items like Frozen Heart have fallen off a cliff and despite it's gold efficiency it's a very situational buy because it gives you ZERO stats against true damage, and if you don't have decent HP pool you can't survive burst or team fights long enough to be useful.
It's almost more beneficial to build items like Steraks Gage over say Deadmans Plate -- sure the Plate cost less but what's funny is that Steraks Gage gives you more survivability simply because of it's passive and it's not even an "tank" or armor item.......
Tank items suck man. They suck.
Tundra Hunter7 votesI'm really hoping that nexus blitz becomes the place to go for people who like shorter games (there was already aram... but I guess nexus blitz will be more summoner rift like / more competitive?) so that we can get 30 min + summoner rift back
And why the community hate tank meta, I think it's because of impatient kids playing league more and more
Marothennan6 votesLet's not kid ourselves, tank metas when tanks are unkillable and tanks are everywhere aren't much about skill either. Yes, the damage in the game is a joke right now but so are tank metas.
TheSingularity6 votesWhat they mean is post cinderhulk sej nerf. Essentially where everything is viable
You see, tanks are enablers to the extreme. They don't just enable carries, they enable and entire meta if they're relevant but not OP
It's like League's circle of life. If tanks are necessary we need marksman/dot mages, to kill them we need burst mages, to kill both the mages and marksman we need assassins/divers/juggernauts/skirmishers, then we need mages/tanks/enchanters to peel those. And then we need tanks to face tank the CC/peel/burst.
But let's remove tanks. You have assassins/divers/melee hyper carries running rampart with no front line peel. Mages/marksman and enchanters are helpless. You no longer need DPS mages/marksman so everyone picks burst like draven and jhin.
As long as they're not brokenly OP like cinderhulk sej 2015. And are balanced like post cinderehulk sej 2015, it is the most flexible, fun and broad meta ever. EVERYTHING IS VIABLE! IN EVERY POSITION! WITH ALMOST ANY BUILD!
Rıots Bad Client5 votesreason why it people do not like tank metas. it just all depends on how good your adc. It just becomes a adc reliant meta again.
ankoanko194 votesWow a tank player enjoying a tank meta, who would have thought? Why dont I enjoy tank metas? Because they make the game too competitive and unrewarding to play anything that isnt a tank or a tank shredder. Nevermind the fact that most people do not find tanks fun. I wont go onto a hashinshin rant but why has it always been the job of top, jungle or to the lesser extent, support to play tanks? Why can it never be mid or bot? Galio was a good midlaner and people literally bombarded the boards of how tanks are unfun when he was good in mid.
"but even in tank meta you can kill the squishy ones with enough skill. "Oh but its fine and dandy when the non skillfull Chogath Q+R kills you ?!
( Btw I dont like the current meta either, I enjoy it more than S7 tank fest but thankfully Riot is dialing down on damage )
The Ecdysiast4 votesWow a tank player enjoying a tank meta, who would have thought? Why dont I enjoy tank metas? Because they make the game too competitive and unrewarding to play anything that isnt a tank or a tank shredder. Nevermind the fact that most people do not find tanks fun. I wont go onto a hashinshin rant but why has it always been the job of top, jungle or to the lesser extent, support to play tanks? Why can it never be mid or bot? Galio was a good midlaner and people literally bombarded the boards of how tanks are unfun when he was good in mid.
"but even in tank meta you can kill the squishy ones with enough skill. "Oh but its fine and dandy when the non skillfull Chogath Q+R kills you ?!
( Btw I dont like the current meta either, I enjoy it more than S7 tank fest but thankfully Riot is dialing down on damage )
Well you're ignoring the fact that just can't happen with the way tank items are now. I broke it down, here https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/e3sseVEH-why-you-dont-need-to-worry-about-a-tank-meta
ankoanko191 votesOh so youre proving my point even further that the only way to win in a tankmeta is to be the actual tank or a tankshredder? A bruisers buying shit like last whisper is ineffective to them since theyll blow up without any resistances. Conquerer doesnt even deal that much true dmg, it will deal a maximum of 3-5k and that is if youre snowballing like hell, otherwise it deals on average around 900-1100 true dmg throughout a 30 min game which isnt a whole lot.
The Ecdysiast1 votesOh so youre proving my point even further that the only way to win in a tankmeta is to be the actual tank or a tankshredder? A bruisers buying shit like last whisper is ineffective to them since theyll blow up without any resistances. Conquerer doesnt even deal that much true dmg, it will deal a maximum of 3-5k and that is if youre snowballing like hell, otherwise it deals on average around 900-1100 true dmg throughout a 30 min game which isnt a whole lot.
No, actually. If that were true, you could list a small number of champions that are the only ones capable of buying these items. That's simply not true. And... about conqueror, you're lowering your estimate to the point of ridiculousness.
I reiterate, any tank meta after the tank update can't possible be as strong as any prior, because every tank item was weakened.
Neptunia xoxo4 votesNo one likes Tank meta because you literally see NOTHING BUT TANKS like hello? this pushes a lot of champions out of top lane and making ones like Maokai and Malph top tier because they can just build full tank items and do retarded damage and never die. This pushes Assasins out and burst mages out because they do nothing and forces a lot of ADCs out of the picture and makes things like Kog Vayne and Varus top because of % HP damage so you vs crap like Juggermaw with a Maokai and Sej on their team and a Kog back line with a Janna or Lulu making it feel like the comp you are against is literally impossible to beat unless you are extremely ahead. We have been through tank meta twice and both times it caused way more problems and more 1 sided games because the enemy team picked 2 tanks while your team has 1 bruiser and the rest squishy champs. Stop posting about tank meta and think for a second why nobody wanted it. Even stupid things like Mundo and Shyvana building full tank 0 damage and doing whatever they wanted and 1v5ing.
Ranmaru1 votesIm a master tier player and your hardstuck D5 And I have 1 person supporting opposed to your 0 my arguement is more valid.
Neptunia xoxo3 votesIm a master tier player and your hardstuck D5 And I have 1 person supporting opposed to your 0 my arguement is more valid.
silver 4 must be the new masters I guess.
Anatera3 votesSome people want to be rewarded for low effort.
Nea1041 votesLike, playing Master Yi or Brand and bursting down anyone, without even thinking about who to engage on?
YuGiHo3 votesi just dislike when tanks have big burst and their actions dont have consequences.
HaIlMonitor3 votes"One shot meta's" require a form of skill... Its called laning. This meta severely punishes people that are bad at laning, instead of going 0/3 on Mao but can still carry team fight because you guy stone plate and way to much CC
Janakin3 votesI would love to have a tank meta. But when riot creates a tank meta, it always means tanks dealing shitloads of damage. And that's something I don't want.
Nea1042 votesExactly. They have a totally distorted concept of "tanks", and this is so sad for one of the most popular games in the world.
Daddy Tie Me Up2 votesWhy do people prefer this meta over tank meta?
Because tanks are FUCKING BORING. Noone wants to watch that shit. Seriously go on twitch and find one tank main streamer. Im gona help you, Sirchezz. His streams are so fucking boring I watch them to fall asleep
Why do you prefer no skills one-shot instead of actual teamfights?
Did you just assume that tanks require skill?
Why do you prefer early game nexus instead of early, mid and late game?
Only tank that doesnt have good win rate in early game is Ornn? Like literally all tank metas are about 22 minute games where you lane for 10 minutes doing nothing and then you faceroll in teamfights.
I know you play assasins, but even in tank meta you can kill the squishy ones with enough skill.
Dude assassins are fucked by tanks so what is your problem? Also funny thing is that most people play fighters and mages not assassins.
Your job isn't to kill tanks instantly.
And tanks job isnt winning lane by default.
S0kaX4 votes[{quoted}](name=Daddy Tie Me Up,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEyNM71U,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-17T22:39:28.658+0000)
Because tanks are FUCKING BORING. Noone wants to watch that shit. Seriously go on twitch and find one tank main streamer. Im gona help you, Sirchezz. His streams are so fucking boring I watch them to fall asleep
I see, you're a flashy player that unless does something useful in the blink of an eye just loses their attention
[{quoted}](name=Daddy Tie Me Up,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEyNM71U,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-17T22:39:28.658+0000) Did you just assume that tanks require skill?
They require more than one-shotting people with 2 or 3 abilities
[{quoted}](name=Daddy Tie Me Up,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEyNM71U,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-17T22:39:28.658+0000) Only tank that doesnt have good win rate in early game is Ornn? Like literally all tank metas are about 22 minute games where you lane for 10 minutes doing nothing and then you faceroll in teamfights.
22 minutes isn't early game. It's mid game or mid to late game, but in no circumstance early game.
[{quoted}](name=Daddy Tie Me Up,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEyNM71U,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-17T22:39:28.658+0000) Dude assassins are fucked by tanks so what is your problem?
My problem is that assassins in this meta fuck tanks
[{quoted}](name=Daddy Tie Me Up,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEyNM71U,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-17T22:39:28.658+0000) And tanks job isnt winning lane by default.
I think you're confusing juggernauts with tanks.
nelogis2 votesHave you ever played in a tank meta? I don't want a tank meta I just want tanks to be viable. Fuck tank metas
Top is a tank, Jungle is a tank, Support is a tank and prop a Galio mid lane You can't fucking move in a teamfight Tanks just point and click cc on you and as soon as you get hit by one cc you are cc'd for 8 seconds Top lane is becoming a shitty farm lane until a jungler ganks Not to speak that tanks just do juggernaut amount of damage instead of being a tank ADC becomes the most important thing again since they are the ONLY ones able to kill these fucks
I hate tank metas, i dont want this or a tank meta. I just want a balanced game, is that so much to ask?
Rekkon2 votesLet me put this straight, the game becomes boring.
The reason why people like the current "meta" (which mainly consists off of bursts and assassins) is because you don't need an eternity to kill someone, even if you have actually outplayed them. Recently, Riot changed runes to offer less damage but with lower cooldowns to allow a more variant and enjoyable early game. This means they are trying to push the game to the early game phase where the outcome will depend on.
Frankly, being a 5000 HP tank is just as annoying as 
and 
. The reason is that they have a lot of stupid shields, which pretty much make up for the HP you don't have. What's even worse is a stupid item active that literally doubles your HP for a few seconds (excuse my lack of knowledge regarding it, I hate tanks and therefore I don't play any).
When you play as a tank you don't have to be afraid of anything, just jump in and shred your squishy opponents because despite your little damage over time, you will survive and they will not as you have a huge difference with them in terms of HP. You don't need to think, just let your backline do the work while you're simply tanking. It's just really stupid.
TL;DR Tanks are so boring, that's why people don't like playing them, despite them being broken and a hell to any team without viable tanks. Clearly, you count the number of tanks your team versus the enemy team has and you already know the outcome, unless the enemies are just a bunch of braindead monkeys that cannot mash four buttons. Tanks need to be nerfed and become more interesting to play to match the game's current modernistic state.
Fury Reaver2 votesi dont get why you low elo players care so much about the metas and cry all the time? :D you want longer games, you want tank meta... like holy go play PvE games
S0kaX2 votesI don't complain all the time, only when I get instakilled in most games
ankoanko191 votes100% youre the type of guy to found it fine when Poppy oneshot a 100% health ADC but when a mage/assassin or bruiser does that then its a nono and ''too much dmg in gamez''
S0kaX2 votesActually I find one shot poppy toxic as well, but it's good that I haven't faced many, meanwhile I face at least 1 assassin that can instakill somebody in 0.2 seconds in almost every game I play.
ankoanko191 votesToo bad you didnt play during S7 colossus meta or S6 sunfire & iceborn. Because that shit happened quite frequently. And IDK but shouldnt assassins be rewarded for snowballing? Theyre melee (except for 
) full dmg carries with very low resistances. If they cant kill a target fast then what is the point of playing them over literally anything else?
S0kaX2 votesToo bad you didnt play during S7 colossus meta or S6 sunfire iceborn.
Actually I played, and tanks didn't do much damage, aside from ocasional poppy bullshit and sejuani. The juggernauts were unkillable pentakill machines.
{quoted} And IDK but shouldnt assassins be rewarded for snowballing?
They should, but not when snowballing is so easy.
ankoanko191 votesSO what do you define as ''easy snowballing'' ? How many kills should an assassin get to be rewarded?
S0kaX1 votesIt's not about kills, it's about the fact that if they get duskblade it's game over unless you have 200 armor by the time they get it
Vlada Cut1 votesThe Meta I preffer themost is the Meta without Meta, but hey, that just me, otherwise TT and so rising Nexus Blitz woukd become primary gamemodes. [sg-lulu]