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i really do like Liandry's Torment but i honestly don't feel it's worth it

DoFr··102 votes·6,595 views

most cases if not all i keep finding that the burn damage, is close to not noticeable, sometimes i even burn full health enemies in ticks of 3s!

now take a look at it's counterpart, the Blade of the Ruined King, which fits ANY As relient champion, and the constant hits, deals far more damage than what you would've with a Liandry's

now don't get me wrong, i love the burn it gives, it's the only item that gives a DoT, but i feel i pay a bit too much for that small burn

i'd really really like to have a smaller item that gives the same DoT, but like, cheaper! with LESS AP, and MORE Magic Pent

i feel like it has alot of stats, but they're all small ones, and just don't work on any champion

lately i've been using it on Sej and Nautilus, and buy it immediatly after cinderhulk if i was ahead, and honestly, i still feel like i could've done SO MUCH better if i just gone with abyssal specter

Edit: as of some of you suggested, having a minimal damage Threshold might be the way to go, atleast this way you don't feel that bad about buying it

103 Comments

Zarxis50 votes

One thing that I'm convinced should be added to Liandry's is a minimum burn damage. It needs to be able to kill champions at extremely low amounts of health.

DoFr11 votes

oh, the frustration of not killing someone with 10 hp, because current health %

Yfrappefort12 votes

{quoted}

oh, the frustration of not killing someone with 10 hp, because current health %

This is why I love it on Brand , since his passive will kill low target combined with item 3151 .

With that said, I think it could be a little cheaper.

Jingerbeardman1 votes

if your opponent is at 1 health and there is still another application of damage from the dot it will kill them. It rounds up not down and cannot deal less than 1 damage.

Elphrihaim3 votes

{quoted}

if your opponent is at 1 health and there is still another application of damage from the dot it will kill them. It rounds up not down and cannot deal less than 1 damage.

False...

Liandry's can tick for 0 damage.

Auz the Ripper3 votes

However, The damage reduction from MR always rounds down. So unless you have enough penetration to negate 100% of their magic resist, that 1 will be reduced then rounded down to 0 and fail to kill them

Jingerbeardman1 votes

I had forgotten about that. if the MR is enough to drop it below .6 damage yeah it will be 0 i believe. though for most squishies the additional Magic pen keeps their MR % below 40% even with runes unless they pick up a MR item.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

The thing that appears happen is that any reduction causes it to round down to 0, even when it should by all rights round up. Which is weird.

I've seen it tick for 0 against ranged squishies with no MR items when I was fully specc'd for magic pen

It does definitely have a minimum damage of 1 against minions and monsters, so it might be interesting to use some effect that grants MR to minions and test it out

kinglallak7 votes

Evelynn I believe has the only ultimate that can do damage and is unable to finish a kill :(

I Main Swain3 votes

technically DrMundo ultimate does damage... just not to the enemy lol

DrCyanide1 votes

And it can kill, or so my friend tells me. I should ask him about the time he figured that one out :)

Jingerbeardman1 votes

used to be able to, not anymore just reduces you to 1 health.

WolfBV3 votes

{quoted}

One thing that I'm convinced should be added to Liandry's is a minimum burn damage. It needs to be able to kill champions at extremely low amounts of health.

This can be a thread just by itself. At least 1 minimum damage would always be good.

Strawberrycocoa13 votes

I think Liandries would be better if it wasn't so reliant on comboing with Rylais and DoTs. If they just gave it the full burn damage without requiring a CC effect to amplify it, more mages could use it.

LordOfTheLeague1 votes

It's not made for mages.

Shinjusuke10 votes

and BotRK isn't meant for ADCs.

LordOfTheLeague1 votes

You are right it's made for ad bruisers that scale with attack speed.

Strawberrycocoa9 votes

It's an ADC Tank-shredding item that's been adopted by Bruisers.

Strawberrycocoa2 votes

Uhhh what, yes t is. It's meant for DoT mages like Malz and Cass.

toxicpanda362 votes

'n teemo?

Strawberrycocoa3 votes

Yeah, Teemo too. I just don't think of him as a mage, I think of him as a skirmishing guerilla fighter, thematically.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

I think of him as a pain-in-the-ass. No matter how he is built.

Tis a nice day2 votes

I shudder to think what this would mean for aoe poke mages such as karthus and xerath.

jmaishere10 votes

what we need is a really low minimum damage dealth with liandry's like 50 or something so when someone is nearly dead, liandry's doesn't repeatedly proc 0 damage

Dengeden7 votes

and buy it immediatly

There's your problem. Unless you're playing something like Rumble, you should always just complete haunting guise and start building something else.

Triblade6 votes

Just gonna say this once and then be on my way Frozen Heart aura procs liandries double damage.

Reikken5 votes

main thing wrong with liandry's is the build path haunting guise and liandry's are opposites, basically:

item 3136 you get for flat pen, to burst squishies harder. flat pen doesn't do much to tanks item 3151 you get to burn down tanky dudes with lots of health

liandry's needs a different build path, and guise needs to build into something else

Thryale4 votes

liandri's is actually conflicted atm. it has flat magic pen (which is great for squishies) and a %hp dot (which is great for tank shredding)

The problem, however, is that the magic pen is invaluable on certain mages, despite them not optimally using the burn.

My suggestion is to give haunting guise a new item to build into with just flat magic pen and no burn, and give liandri's a slightly stronger burn, a little more hp, little more ap, and a magic resist shred that stacks with each tick of the dot. (like 2% MR shred per stack, stacks up to X times, after Y secs stacks are lost) this way, it's still great for dot mages, and also becomes a solid pick on ap bruisers or poke mages allowing for more reason to kill the off tank or create more tension in order to force the enemy to make a move in a siege respectively.

LoL Ergo Urgot4 votes

I be sniping people with Viktor's E, get them really low, and see 0's all day ;-;

disregardable3 votes

It's really good on Teemo in particular. People tend to underestimate how much Liandrys+Poison+Ignite really does.

RoMz3 votes

Gotta get that item 3116

LordOfTheLeague3 votes

I think liandries counterpart is Black cleaver and not BRK. Ad/Ap, penetration, Hp. It's made for Ap tanks and fighters.

The liandries passive is the opposite of what you want for most mages. It's stronger when you burn slowly the enemy when mage burst most of the time.

Even if the %hp damage make you feel like it's an Hp stack counter, I think it's barely the case.

lightdragoon882 votes

I think it should have a boost in burn damage if the target it is burning is above half-health.

The Bíg Ticket2 votes

Play Malzahar Malzahar and profit.

Gavran30 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c5jFg2uw,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-04-17T18:37:08.464+0000)

Play Malzahar Malzahar and profit prophet.

fixed

terkmc3 votes

Malzahar +item 3116 +item 3151 = Tank? What tank?

LeeDark5 votes
  • item 3116 - item 3151 = STILL "Tank? What tank?"

Malz kills tanks because his kit is designed to do that anyway. Liandry's isn't really what is doing that for him. It's still a pretty bad item overall, only barely worth buying on DoT champions, BARELY, and nobody else.

Auz the Ripper4 votes

Malz's kit is not designed to kill tanks

Malz's kit is designed to kill everything

Rinky Dinky2 votes

Riot themselves very recently (In the black cleaver discussion) stated that Liandries suffers from the same problems old black cleaver did, and that they really wish to change it.

Yoella2 votes

Liandry's Torment item 3151 is extremely potent on some champions and abilities, like Teemo Teemo shrooms, but definitely lacks that punch it feels it should have when the enemy is low. I think that the problem lies in it's %currentHP burn. Honestly, by now we probably have the technology to make Liandry's do something along the lines of "burns %currentHP unless enemy unit has less than 20% HP, then it burns a lower %maxHP amount", but the item is old and probably hasn't been really looked at in years.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

I feel like the item is fine, and its stats make sense when you realize what it actually is; it's a poking item for AP mids that kite alot, like Vel'koz, and for those that have lots of DOT's, like Malzahar or Brand. It is also a solid item on AP tanks that do lots of AOE damage over time, such as Sejuani, Zac, or Mundo. The magic pen and burn makes you do considerably more to enemy squishies, and the burn damage does significant damage to tanks as well, just over a longer period of time. The item isn't meant to actually finish enemies, it's meant to wear them down to the point to where you are another damage dealer on your team can go in for the kill.

iamthegoatofwar2 votes

why not SLIGHTLY change it's passive 2% of current hp/second down to a minimum of 15 hp/second might seem kinda low but it will help with killing anyone who lives at low hp.

Krevik2 votes

Most of the complaints against the burn is that it only does 2-4% of an enemy's current hp. Yeah, 2-4% isn't all that impressive ... until you stop thinking about 1v1s and look at teamfights. Champions with long-range aoe abilities (cough Zyra cough) can easily get that burn on multiple enemies at a time. Hit the entire team with your ult? Suddenly you're burning 10-20% of their collective hp ... every second! Liandry's is the main reason that Zyra regularly gets highest damage to champions - even from the support role.

And yes, the burn doesn't do very much at low hp, but that's not the point. The burn isn't supposed to finish kills ... it's meant to get an enemy low enough that a carry/assassin can finish the kill.

Champion Skin2 votes

One of the reason Zyra deals so much damage is because she deals AoE damage and also because she deals sustained damage with her plants and decently short cooldown on her Q (well at least when it is leveled up) And because she has pretty high base damages

And the burn will never deal full damage after all the ability you hit the enemy with will deal damage and lower their HP and also the burn itself will also slightly lower their HP

Though of course it works rather well if you just toss a DoT on the enemy and that's it.. just to harass them (especially if the DoT ticks very quickly, last a long time or have a slowing effect.... and this is the reason brand DoT was changed to tick fewer times but still dealing the same damage)

Voishin4 votes

{quoted}

Most of the complaints against the burn is that it only does 2-4% of an enemy's current hp. Yeah, 2-4% isn't all that impressive ... until you stop thinking about 1v1s and look at teamfights. Champions with long-range aoe abilities (cough Zyra cough) can easily get that burn on multiple enemies at a time. Hit the entire team with your ult? Suddenly you're burning 10-20% of their collective hp ... every second!

Your wording is very poor/misleading. If 2-4% of an enemies HP is taken, hitting more may multiply the damage, but it doesn't collectively increase in percentage; the collective damage is still going to be 2-4%. What you're meaning to say is that it essentially multiplies the damage by the number of targets hit, so it's potentially more effective for AoE champions.

Yordle Xayah2 votes

Problem is... if they buff it or make a true item mages can use to do damage to tanks, they'd have to nerf champions like Leblanc or Annie and God forbid Riot ever nerfing such champions.

A Corny Name2 votes

I thought liandry's was just supposed to be a super late game item so you can have haunting guise in your build the whole game and have the satisfaction of a third tier item.

Sirsir2 votes

Yeah its pretty niche, its only really good as a single offensive item on Tanks, or on certain DoT mages. The difference in pre-liandries and post-liandries damage from a single Cassiopeia Q on a tank is VERY noticeable.

Personally I would love it if Haunting Guise also went into something more stats heavy AS WELL as the passive option.

Extreme Troller1 votes

this item is op whn you have rylai, it's useless if you don't have it. This item should be reworked.

Lost R2 votes

It's best used on champions who have their own crowd control and damage over time, even better if they have both (read: Fiddlesticks, Malzahar, Teemo, Nautilus, Sejuani, Rammus, Brand, Azir, Heimerdinger, Cassiopeia, Katarina, Morgana, Vel'koz, and Rumble among others I forget). It's powerful enough as-is, and it's meant to compliment your main source of power, not be the main source of your power.

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