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The Bruiser-Ham Support Item Gotham Deserves...

GetMariahCarried··4 votes·595 views

I find myself in the "predicament" of playing support lately with no desire to choose anything but ad casters (wait... that's not new :P). While I can continue to ignore the naysayers and spam "imagine if I had a REAL supp" in chat with every kill-steal, I think it's time to give these unwitting victims of my every whim a bit of justice.

I shall provide this justice through theory-crafting! Why not eliminate non-support picks by making more champs able to support? (I'll be honest, this is something I can't justify needing, BUT SOMETHING I DESERVE...)

So join me! Post your bruiser/ham gold support item ideas here! (both AP and AD thoughts are welcome)

To me, the item should meet the following criteria:

1) Avoid abuse of the item in non-support roles 2) Open support to less aura buff/cc champs. 3) Open support to champs with heavy non-ap offensive requirements. 4) Emphasize the bruiser/ham nature of the target champions, but in a supportish way. 5) DISCOURAGE KILL STEALING (sadly, kill-stealing is a ham champ's dream.) 6) Discourage creep scoring (kind of an obvious criteria.) 7) Not require a whole LINE of ad support items. Just spec ONE offensive gold support item to parallel Mountain, Ascension, and Frostqueen, and provide the necessary offenses for any ham/bruiser champ.

So here's what I have in mind:

Stats: A percent gain to total offensive stats (kind of like sterak's, but not off of base or bonus value, and not specific to one offense stat. The percent is designed to help out AD-based or AS-based champs a little more initially without totally excluding certain AP assassins that don't really take to frost-queen and nee- I mean... DESERVE... a support item.)

Passive: While within 1250 distance of a paired ally champion, gain the following effects:

  • Bruiser: You gain stacks up to a cap to your percent gains in offensive stats whenever you deal damage to an enemy champion or your ally deals RANGED damage to any enemy (creeps included). These stacks are reduced by a third on a kill, but a quarter of the loss is returned with each assist. Stacks persist out of range of paired champion, but only affect stats while in range of champion.
  • Bruiser Bros: Your paired ally gains a small percentage of your bonus offensive stats from all sources.
  • Golden Ham: A percentage of the MELEE damage an enemy champ takes from you is converted to gold. In addition, a percentage of RANGED damage your paired ally does to enemies (creeps included) is converted to gold for you.

Active:

  • Brothers in Mayhem (Must be within pair range): For 3 seconds, your ally gains all your on-hit effects, including melee. In addition, for the FIRST second, your ally also gains all other self-effects, (so if supp fizz casts active and e, you're paired ally becomes untargettable 'til the end of the active's first second. If you're kat, and get a cdr from kill or assist during the first second of the active, your ally gets the cdr too. If supp olaf ults, ally is cc-immune. If supp shaco cloaks, ally cloaks. If supp eve speed boosts, ally speed boosts. Only for the first second! Don't want this to get out of hand.)

Here are my justifications as they pertain to the numbered criteria:

  • Pairing and range requirements: Meets (1). Note, you can only gain bruiser stacks while in range, so you want to be near a champion you're supporting for as long as possible. You can't just go top for a while and pair with bot later after getting loads of cs, expecting to have gotten much out of this item. It would be like Nasus not being able to farm his q without being next to an ally.
  • Bruiser: Meets (3) and (5).
  • Bruiser Bros: Meets (3),(4), and partially meets (7).
  • Golden Ham: Meets (6), but also (4). The MELEE/AUTO restrictions were a small attempt to discourage this from becoming an op item for double bruiser bots or double-adc's.
  • Brothers in Mayhem:
  • On-hit sharing: Meets (2), (3), and (7). If you're someone like riven who just builds a ton of ad, you'll be right where you belong with Bruiser Bros. But if you're someone like Irelia who just slaps people with on-hits mercilessly, you still have a new home in botlane.
  • Self-effect sharing: Meets (2) and (4). I was thinking, if it aint your standard cc/peel, what do ad casters/melee adc's and a few assassins produce by nature as peel? Oh right, juke. But it's always self-peel. Let's share the love in a way that emphasizes what the ham champ is all about.

LIMITATIONS: A person can only be paired with one ally at a time (no "everybody gets to supp the adc and give them a crapton of additional stats and effects simultaneously using this item".)

Side-Notes: I think the other gold items would have to be re-worked to meet the potential opness of this item. We've had a lot of op item additions and reworks lately. I think op gold reworks are reasonable too.

5 Comments

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

While I agree that there should be a fourth, Fighter-Support gold item line, I do not like your item all that much ... sorry? It's just very complicated and without any specific examples (numbers) I have a hard time imagining it.

So here's my suggestion for the following Fighters:

JarvanIV Pantheon Olaf Darius LeeSin MonkeyKing And these guys only. They all have at least one form of Crowd Control and all have some sort of ranged presence. Be it ranged abilities, dashes, or massive pillars of stone that you can summon from the ground.

Cutpurse Knife

  • Cost: 365 Gold
  • 5 Attack Damage
  • UNIQUE Passive - Heist: When nearby allied champions (1100 range) attack enemy champions with a basic attack, they apply a first stack of Loaded for 5 seconds. When Loaded folks receive direct physical damage from allied champions they gain another stack. At four stacks the mark is consumed to deal 4 (+1 per level) bonus physical damage and cause a Money Bag to drop. Only a Thief can collect the bag to receive 10 Gold and 40 Movement Speed for 1 second.
    This has an 18 second cooldown on target.
  • UNIQUE Passive - Thief: Killing minions causes Greater Money Bags to drop instead of granting gold. These bags grant kill gold and no Movement Speed. They have a 2 second cooldown before a Thief can collect them.

As a disclaimer: Only you can collect money bags, you little thief.

This item cannot be abused [1)] in solo lanes, as the passive effect needs an ally to initiate and probably also an ally to complete. You could apply three more stacks on your own, but that is dangerous and this item grants no defensive or sustain stats whatsoever, so be on your best behavior and wait for the right time to strike.

This item line requires little to no CC and is more offense-orientated. That means you have no need to buff your allies directly, as dealing more damage will probably suffice. The quicker the enemies are dead, the less utility you need [2) and 3)].

It encourages "going ham" to get those three stacks and your bag of gold. But it might become more like intense poke sessions/trades than actually going ham. At least until you can finish off your opponents [4)].

It does not discourage kill-stealing [5)].

It does not discourage killing minions, since that is hard for Fighters. Unlike Mage Supports, they're melee. They have to go in, and they will most likely kill minions with their AoE damage. This item grants allies the chance to collect get that gold anyway.

And lastly, NO. Whyever should there not be a whole line for Fighter-Supports? What would they buy in lane? They need gold, too.
So here are the upgrades:

Golden Shiv

  • Cost: 865 Gold
  • 10 Attack Damage
  • 50% base Health Regen per 5 seconds
  • 2 Gold per 10 seconds
  • UNIQUE Passive - Heist: When nearby allied champions (1100 range) attack enemy champions with a basic attack, they apply a first stack of Loaded for 5 seconds. When Loaded folks receive direct physical damage from allied champions they gain another stack. At four stacks the mark is consumed to deal 7 (+1 per level) bonus physical damage, briefly slow the target's Movement Speed, and cause a Money Bag to drop. Only a Thief can collect the bag to receive 10 Gold and 60 Movement Speed for 1 second.
    This has an 15 second cooldown on target.
  • UNIQUE Passive - Thief: Killing minions causes Greater Money Bags to drop instead of granting gold. These bags grant kill gold and no Movement Speed. They have a 2 second cooldown before a Thief can collect them.

The bonuses are: +5 Attack Damage (180 Gold); +50% base Health Regen (180 Gold); +2 Gold per 10 seconds; +3 physical damage on the passive; a brief slow (75% for 0.1 seconds); +20 Movement Speed when collecting a bag; and --3 seconds cooldown on Heist.

Trickster's Blade

  • Cost: 2100 Gold
  • Recipe: Golden Shiv + Vampiric Scepter + 435 Gold
  • 40 Attack Damage
  • 10% Life Steal
  • 100% base Health Regen per 5 seconds
  • 2 Gold per 10 seconds
  • UNIQUE Passive - Heist: When nearby allied champions (1100 range) attack enemy champions with a basic attack, they apply a first stack of Loaded for 5 seconds. When Loaded folks receive direct physical damage from allied champions they gain another stack. At four stacks the mark is consumed to deal 12 (+1 per level) bonus physical damage, briefly slow the target's Movement Speed, and cause a Money Bag to drop. Only a Thief can collect the bag to receive 10 Gold and 60 Movement Speed for 1 second.
    This has an 12 second cooldown on target.
  • UNIQUE Passive - Thief: Killing minions causes Greater Money Bags to drop instead of granting gold. These bags grant kill gold and no Movement Speed. They have a 0.5 second cooldown before a Thief can collect them.
  • UNIQUE Active - Sidekick: Grants a target allied champion +20 Attack Damage and +10% Life Steal for 8 seconds and allows them to collect minor Money Bags for the duration (60 second cooldown).

The bonuses are: +30 Attack Damage; +10% Life Steal; +50% base Health Regen; +5 damage on the passive; --3 seconds cooldown on Heist; and --1.5 seconds cooldown on Greater Money Bags; +Sidekicks.

Overall, this line would be an offensive alternative to the Relic Shield line for Fighters. It doesn't offer survivability, but it does grant damage, sustain, some mobility and minor CC, and the option to buff your ally for 8 seconds, during which time they can earn extra gold. So that's all a plus.

Personally, I'd only buy it in cooperation with my Marksman, as Heist is extremely reliant on them and the item requires a special playstyle in lane.

But on the other hand I'd probably buy it on all Supports because it grants me a cool passive - Thief: This unit is a darn thief!

GetMariahCarried1 votes

{quoted}

And lastly, NO. Whyever should there not be a whole line for Fighter-Supports? What would they buy in lane? They need gold, too.

You missed my meaning of "line". I don't mean you don't build up a larger, completed item. Or that you just buy some cheap starter item and never build anything out of it. I mean, you don't have 4 or 5 completed support ad items. I think you were expecting a build process to be lined out for this one gold item. As with scalings (as stated), those are superfluous details when describing the overall nature of the item. Presenting such details right away would just complicate the description even further, a fact you already criticized.

You can say, "how do I know this is balanced if I don't know the scalings yet at each stage?" Most people don't know if something's balanced until they've seen it in action ANYWAY. Which is why item scaling and active cooldowns are constantly reworked in patches after they've gone for some spins. Trying to decide right away what scalings are balanced is illogical at best.

What's important is what the option opens up in potential tactics (For example, I don't need to know the crit/ap scalings on zeke's to get the idea that it creates mage/adc pair engage that's time-restricted, like gnar's ult. And the description I just gave of zeke's is all I really care about in determining if it's going in the right direction as an item. One could claim the current crit scaling is ridiculous, but regardless of whether that's nerfed or not, I like the design change.)

Note, however, I have considered breaking up the one item I described into a couple of items, given that it packs too many things into it. I might rework that first post (already have a few times.) But thinking we need a whole LINE of ad support items is extreme.

{quoted}

It does not discourage kill-stealing [5)].

That's the exact OPPOSITE of the criteria listed. I think you need to read my post again. Same thing with csing. On a related note, claiming that csing might be an unavoidable issue is like complaining that malz would do the same as supp. I don't recall any major issues accidently taking cs as a relic bruiser (or heck, even proccing relic by accident in the process of harassing.)

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

"It does not discourage kill-stealing" was meant to be a contra point. As was that it does not discourage CSing. Which is why I wrote that it still allows allies to get gold, even when you do. Am I really the one not reading right here? HMMM?!

And on that csing note, you do accidently steal CS if you are melee champion with AoE abilities, since you're required to stand in the middle of the minions - behind which the enemy champions hide - to deal damage and automatically damage the minions in the process. See Thresh E, Blitz Ult, Taric W/Ult, Nunu Ult, et cetera.
This doesn't happen often at all, but since you want to encourage offensive play and champions with more damaging abilities (Darius Q, J4 Q, Olaf Q, Lee Sin E, Wukong Ult), it will happen more often than you might want it to, hence my "Thief" passive.

Unward491 votes

They already put an item like this in the game.

First you go JarvanIV then you buy item 3097 + item 3053 .

Then you go ham.

GetMariahCarried1 votes

{quoted}

They already put an item like this in the game.

First you go JarvanIV then you buy item 3097 + item 3053 .

Then you go ham.

Jarvan is an item???

O.O

OH MY GOSH. YOU'VE MADE A BREAKTHOUGH! I WANT THIS NOW RITO!

@JackYAqua, You're still over-exaggerating the problem. Wukong ult? It's an ult. Come on. Does anyone rage at supp ziggs for ulting near a minion wave? Seriously, if this happens, I wanna slap the person who does it... ... ... aaaand then do it myself because I like to frustrate people (hey, League can get monotonous without some rage.) Olaf Q? Who deliberately shoots through a line of almost dead minions that often, except on purpose? I can see a darius q causing problems. It's spam, with dots, in a larger-than-usual aoe, and it's maxed first. But that's about it.

Also, when you make a contrapoint to a bulleted criterion, don't CITE it as if you're trying to meet it. That's backwards. "It does not discourage kill-stealing [5)]." does not at all state what you mean in regards to "[5]".

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