Why you play first time champions in normals instead of bots?

S0kaX·Sep 14, 2016·44 votes·2,658 views

Because I can go AD and still ace in bots.

51 Comments

BeldairSep 14, 201631 votes

Bots only let you learn the abilities...not the champion and how to play them.

Secret BallerSep 14, 201611 votes

Reading comprehension also lets you learn the abilities. Bots don't do anything at all. Their a fun time kill, but otherwise generally useless. They don't even have masteries and their scripting is pretty bad and easy to manipulate.

BeldairSep 14, 20162 votes

Quite true... I laugh when someone tells me to learn a champ in bots...

My personal belief is that live opponents are the best to fight when you want to learn a champ... Especially if they have played them before, because many of the honorable players will give you tips about what is good to build and some of the things you need to work on.

For instance, I try to give tips even in the middle of the match..even if it is an enemy player. Why? Because I feel that is what I should do.. If I have knowledge on what works on a champ and see mistakes, is it not appropriate to give advice to that player even if they are an enemy?

underscores222Sep 15, 20161 votes

While playing against people will help you on the micro side of action/reaction, bots will help you learn the basic combos, what you can and can't do with abilities, what the auto attack time is for last hitting, how much damage they actually do, etc. It's basically worthless after lane phase is over because you'll be far enough ahead of the bots to stomp them, but bots do help with the basic particulars of a champ.

Even then, I suggest going into a custom and playing against a friend a few times to really get to know the champ before taking it against someone in a normal game. It's a courtesy to other players to at least know how a champ works (not just reading the abilities but actually knowing). I can't tell you the number of times I've seen a Kled try to joust over walls...

MrStealYoGanksSep 15, 20167 votes

Reading comprehension lets you understand the abilities, while playing a PvP match will always give more insight as to how a champion's kit works; Going into a bot match to figure how their kit works in a fraction of the time it takes for a draft game isn't bad. Whether you're high or low elo, people tend to get pissed quickly in a PvP match if you aren't competent with a champion. Bot games simply make it easier to understand the kit and get the ball rolling on seeing the basics of how the champ works, CD, mana consumption (if applicable), etc. of course all of that can be learned from reading but it's easier to learn basics in a bot match than in a PvP match where toxicity can become apparent for anyone learning a new champ.

Basically it's simple preference of how you want to go about learning a champion. PvP will always give more insight, bots can help with the basics though. The only role that you can't learn much from in bots is jungle besides timing how fast your jungle clear is, besides that it's better to learn new jungle champions in PvP.

IcyPepperSep 15, 20167 votes

Tbh, some champions it's better to at least open a custom match (you don't necessarily need actual bots) than just jumping into a normals match with a new champion.

Taliyah's W and especially her ult (I hate to say it, but it took me five tries just to figure out that you can't mash RR, but need to wait like a second to hit R again without clicking) are not abilities you want to first time in even a normal game.

AdriqnoheeSep 15, 20162 votes

Don't beat yourself over it, when I first tried Katarina it took me 4 ults to learn she had to stay still.

IcyPepperSep 15, 20161 votes

item 3070 MissFortune

I feel your pain.

TrogmarSep 14, 201616 votes

Your learning a jungler. Cant learn it at all in bots.

It Hertz When IPSep 14, 20162 votes

Jungle is (if anything) the exception; it's a good place to practice early game clears, how early and with what gear can you solo dragon...

That's about it. But it's a good start, since if you can perfect your level 1-4 clears with a champion, that's a good solid start to jungling with them.

Champion SkinSep 14, 20161 votes

Well you can just as well do that in a solo custom game... and then you can just leave the game when you are done practicing early clears and testing when and how well you can do dragon

It Hertz When IPSep 15, 20161 votes

Hey, I never said it was the best possible solution.

BeldairSep 14, 20167 votes

You forgot a role... You can't learn support in bots.

5000000000000000Sep 15, 20162 votes

Why not?

DrahcirSep 15, 20162 votes

Because bots have none of the aspects of actual games, no harass, no four man ganks, no way to practise saving your adc.

5000000000000000Sep 15, 20162 votes

Isn't that the same with top or mid anyway?

The Fuzzy 0neSep 14, 201612 votes

Bots are boring to play against and doesn't tell you if you're any good at the champ and whether you even really like the champ

S0kaXSep 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Purple Swag420,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c3fN5QKZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-14T12:38:59.986+0000)

Bots are boring to play against and doesn't tell you if you're any good at the champ and whether you even really like the champ

Yep

GoronMuncherVSep 14, 20169 votes

Bots are boring

That's all folks!

TyrekGoldenspearSep 14, 20165 votes

If I am with a new champ, I usually give myself two bot games to give myself time to become competent with the skills and combos enough to not be stupid in a normal game lol.

BastionKrossSep 14, 20161 votes

Indeed, bot games can teach you how certain abilities flow into each other to create combos, and test item interactions. It also allows you a risk-free jungle clear if you're jungling a champion for the first time.

Taking a new champ into a bot game before normals lets you get the very basics of a champion down, so you don't look like a total clown and ruin a normal game for four other players.

Tyto MorsSep 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Indeed, bot games can teach you how certain abilities flow into each other to create combos, and test item interactions. It also allows you a risk-free jungle clear if you're jungling a champion for the first time.

Taking a new champ into a bot game before normals lets you get the very basics of a champion down, so you don't look like a total clown and ruin a normal game for four other players.

you cant probably learn a jungler in bots, certain champs excel at counter jungling, for example shaco. learning the behaviors of players at the start of the game isnt something that can be learned by bots. for shaco that would be knowing if the camp your going to steal might be in the progress of being taken by the enemy jungler or if they are on the other side of the map.

and general it doesnt teach you counter play, bots are stupid on any level. bots is really only useful if your trying to get rid of leaverbuster or something. if you want to learn a new champ, take them into a norm it'll show you what your bad at with the champion and what your good with, you work from there.

BastionKrossSep 15, 20161 votes

Learning that first clear is one of the most important things to learn on a new jungle champion, and bot games can help you do that in a safe environment where you have zero chance of getting invaded and counter jungled. What camp do you start? What order do you make your way through the jungle camps? After how many camps are you still healthy enough to gank? Do you start item 1039 or item 1041 ? What ability should you start with for the most efficient clear?

All of those important questions can be learned in a one or two bot games without making yourself look like a fool in a normal game by being executed in your own jungle because you didn't put a point into W on Shaco.

And I didn't say bot games teach you counterplay, I said they teach you ability combos and allow you to test items. Those things are pretty damn important to know when you're playing a champion. Is the best combo Q -> E -> Ult, or E -> Q -> Ult? Bot games can let you test that easily by putting you up against target dummies. Is item 3078 a good buy on Volibear ? Buy one in a bot game and find out. If it works, great. If not, then you avoided looking like an idiot in a normal game.

I'm not saying you should be a master of a champion before taking them to normals. What I am saying is that you should have a basic grasp of what the hell you're doing on that champion before playing them against other humans. No one wants that guy on their team who went first time Darius, fed like a mofo because they didn't know hitting things with the handle was a bad idea, and responds:

"guyz its jst norms lolololol".

Have a little respect for your teammates and come to a match prepared, even if it's a normal game. Yes, you can look up pro guides that tell you these basics, but some players learn better by doing. Or they want to see how well Veigar can jungle and there's no guide for that.

Tyto MorsSep 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Learning that first clear is one of the most important things to learn on a new jungle champion, and bot games can help you do that in a safe environment where you have zero chance of getting invaded and counter jungled. What camp do you start? What order do you make your way through the jungle camps? After how many camps are you still healthy enough to gank? Do you start or ? What ability should you start with for the most efficient clear?

All of those important questions can be learned in a one or two bot games without making yourself look like a fool in a normal game by being executed in your own jungle because you didn't put a point into W on Shaco.

And I didn't say bot games teach you counterplay, I said they teach you ability combos and allow you to test items. Those things are pretty damn important to know when you're playing a champion. Is the best combo Q -> E -> Ult, or E -> Q -> Ult? Bot games can let you test that easily by putting you up against target dummies. Is a good buy on ? Buy one in a bot game and find out. If it works, great. If not, then you avoided looking like an idiot in a normal game.

I'm not saying you should be a master of a champion before taking them to normals. What I am saying is that you should have a basic grasp of what the hell you're doing on that champion before playing them against other humans. No one wants that guy on their team who went first time Darius, fed like a mofo because they didn't know hitting things with the handle was a bad idea, and responds:

"guyz its jst norms lolololol".

Have a little respect for your teammates and come to a match prepared, even if it's a normal game. Yes, you can look up pro guides that tell you these basics, but some players learn better by doing. Or they want to see how well can jungle and there's no guide for that.

first off, norms is just norms, its a time were you can do some stupid shit, as long as you try to help team and say your trying something out of meta. and tells you how it fares against other people. if your trying a new jungler, then yes it will teach you basics, until something goes wrong and your not sure how to handle it and free fall from there.

who the fuck gives a shit about looking like a fool in a normal? i just finished a game as shaco with 2.22 attack speed against a malph that ended up with 6 thornmails. i have my basics down as shaco, but something happened that made me change my build path (namely forgetting to change masteries for my AS oriented adc and runes) and work it from there.

when learning a new champ i do as you said "learn better by doing", and playing bots was not helpful in learning the game. unlike some people im against, im actually capable of reading the tooltips, and being able to see how i show build and play a champ. the only time ill genuinely tell someone to play bots, is when they literally just started playing league.

btw, we are talking about coop vs ai right? not custom against bots, because if its the custom with bots, your not getting a leash, making you unable to tell if your doing a good route.starting spot and what not. if talking about coop, then your playing with 4 other players on your team, still making you look like an idiot on your team.

BastionKrossSep 16, 20161 votes

then yes it will teach you basics, until something goes wrong and your not sure how to handle it and free fall from there.

That's why you don't practice in bots and then go straight to ranked. Normals teach you what to do after you've established the basics of a champion's combos/item paths/clear. Some players can just look at the tooltips and go "Yeah, I got this" and play the champ well; those are the players that can safely skip an introductory bot game or two. Some players can't, and need actual hands-on experience with the size of the hitboxes and the travel time of the projectiles to get used to the mechanics. And then there's the third group of players who think they're the first group but aren't.

who the fuck gives a shit about looking like a fool in a normal?

Anyone who doesn't feel like getting flamed that particular match.

unlike some people im against, im actually capable of reading the tooltips, and being able to see how i show build and play a champ.

You're either in group one or group three (I'm too lazy to look up which one, however I have my suspicions with the AS Shaco anecdote), but you also admit there that some players are in group two who really should learn the basics of their champion before entering a normal game.

btw, we are talking about coop vs ai right?

Well, either Coop or custom really. I would lean toward Coop just because it gives a handful of extra IP and you might make a friend whereas playing a custom game by yourself can be quite underwhelming but very helpful if you just want to quickly test one thing. (Sandbox please, Rito)

your not getting a leash, making you unable to tell if your doing a good route.

On the contrary, you should never rely on getting a leash. A jungler should know what to do when your team, for whatever reason, doesn't leash. What do you do when your bat lane is like "Nah bro, no leash 4 U"? You better know, because it'll happen someday and it's in your best interest to have a route that allows you to not fall as far behind. Bot games can let you practice without leashes.

if talking about coop, then your playing with 4 other players on your team, still making you look like an idiot on your team.

No one cares if you look like an idiot in bots. I've played many, many bot games over the years (for practicing new champs, new ways to play old champs, and for that awesome FWOTD bonus on time) and it's very rare to have players yell at each other for bad performance in Coop games.

This is as opposed to the toxic players that frequent normals.

6SfoolSep 15, 20163 votes

Too many times have i experimented with a new champ against bots to carry 30-0 easily and get 2 pentas, only to realize in normals that braum isnt meant to jungle.

Secret BallerSep 14, 20162 votes

About the only useful thing you can do in a coop vs AI game is practice new, unique, or different jungle clear routes. Otherwise, they are completely useless. Their AI is pretty easy to manipulate which makes them boring to play against and teaches you nothing. They are a fun time kill, but otherwise useless. I even feel like you're better off practicing your jungle routes in normal matches anyway because in an actual match things aren't always going to happen in the most ideal way. I don't even think the argument you can practice your combo is a valid one. Reading comprehension should be enough for you to figure out what you're suppose to do and how to do it. Practicing against a brain dead bot who is easy to manipulate and roll isn't even a good way to practice your combo. It's only going to make it extremely easy to land you'll start to develop bad habits.

PoskeSep 14, 20162 votes

I can go hybrid soraka and still 1vs5...

LadyRenlySep 14, 20162 votes

I do better with new champs than ones I regularly play, for some odd reason.

Besides, just because you are playing a new champ, doesn't change the fundamentals of how to play the game, such as don't overextend without vision. For example, it's not particularily hard to play Yasuo or Vel Koz for the first time.

You learn jack shit in bots.

Kingdom CornSep 15, 20162 votes

Yeah I am sure playing against bots is the same as playing against humans.

blkh1Sep 15, 20161 votes

intermediate bots can be more difficult than normals often times.

La BarbotteSep 15, 20162 votes

you can sadly aslo do so in normals...

IceKingChernobogSep 15, 20162 votes

Because Bots give you a false perception on weather you're do well with the champ and champ builds or not. You can go Full AP volibear, 1v5 and get a penta. Normals let you see what strengths and short comings the champion you're using have when put up against another human player.

StrawberrycocoaSep 16, 20162 votes

It irritates me when people want to flame other players for first-timing in a Normals game. That's basically what normals are FOR. -_-

Lordk0zSep 16, 20162 votes

Not your first game. I'd say your second or third with a champ should be your first pvp match.

Take a game or two to learn the mechanics and get a feel for the abilities first.

L RayquazaSep 14, 20161 votes

You sorta explained it yourself, you can go AD Vel in bots and ace them, they are stupid, if you know how they work you can abuse the programming and make them do stupider things, get fed and they run away yeah, but if you go in 1v5 they think they have the upper hand. League Bot AI is worse than Hearthstone AI and that is saying alot

S0kaXSep 14, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Rayquaza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=c3fN5QKZ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-14T15:15:29.722+0000)

You sorta explained it yourself, you can go AD Vel in bots and ace them, they are stupid, if you know how they work you can abuse the programming and make them do stupider things, get fed and they run away yeah, but if you go in 1v5 they think they have the upper hand. League Bot AI is worse than Hearthstone AI and that is saying alot

I was just answering the question some people ask on champ select

L RayquazaSep 14, 20161 votes

Oooooooo, I'm stupid

Amasa DelanoSep 14, 20161 votes

False

L RayquazaSep 14, 20161 votes

nah, if you see some of the shit i do in game I'm an idiot, a genius idiot, but an idiot

BeldairSep 14, 20161 votes

Aren't we all XD

L RayquazaSep 15, 20162 votes

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2244710095/48981391 Just gonna slip this here

BeldairSep 15, 20161 votes

Try a Rumble in the jungle support XD

L RayquazaSep 15, 20161 votes

i don't know if you mean the skin or a support rumble in jungle, but either way, i'm shit at him, it wont happen

SpoofghoulSep 14, 20161 votes

but ad velkoz is awesome bro

just gran deathfire and your good to go

BattleMan69Sep 14, 20161 votes

Because for some people normals is a joke. I think my normal mmr is somewhere in bronze, which allows me to play new champions and still do reasonably well.

UltraGigaNigaSep 15, 20161 votes

I've literally never had someone tell me to go learn a champion in bots. Blind pick normals is the equivalent of bots as far as I'm concerned since no one is really trying.

hghvcdgdsvSep 15, 20161 votes

I like to hop onto a custom quick before I use a new champ in a game. Sometimes with a bot, sometimes not depending on the champion I wanna try. I just play around with them doing whatever random thing (messing with the bot can be entertaining) until I feel like I have enough of a feel for them that I won't flub up an easy combo or something with them in the beginning of my first actual match. I'm sure a lot of people would consider that boring but in my opinion it's made my first matches with champions a lot more enjoyable because I have a higher chance of not messing up the laning phase (sometimes the game) due to me not knowing the champion. I don't play bot matches because I feel like they dont teach you much after you get a feel for the champion and it's just a waste of time to finish out the game.