So someone tell me. Why did Fiora get reworked?

64539310_DEL··1 votes·2,947 views

When the rework came out, it said it changed Fiora from an assassin to a skirmishing duelist. But why? She seemed fine the way she was.

If it was because she was OP (which is doubtful) then it's a huge contradiction. We've seen champions like Katarina, Zed, and Vayne get more than one pentakill in a game and no one bats an eye. Fiora get's a triple kill and everyone begs for a nerf and rework. Katarina, Zed, and Vayne may be slightly better at team fights, but like Fiora they are extremely squishy and blow up once targeted. Of course if she wasn't fed then she couldn't do much, but that's how all heavy assassins are and most other champions for that matter.

If it was because her abilities didn't seem to match her character, then that's also a contradiction. Why do bombs deal magic damage? Why does Swain, a brilliant tactician and leader of the Noxian military, fight with a bird and turn into one? Why does Singed have a freaking shield!?!?? There are lot's of champions that don't quite fit their lore or character. Why is Fiora any different?

If it's because she's underpowered...well...she's not. It's true that she completely get's destroyed in team fights because of the crowd control, but that's part of how assassin Fiora was played. If the team had a lot of cc potential then you would either build BORK and tanky items or just time your attacks right and go in when heavy cc was use up. If the team has a little cc then you could just build damage and blow up squishies since there wasn't enough cc. Her ult was useful, but I honestly never used it except to turret dive, secure a kill, or save myself from dying.

As for her abilities, her Q was great since it could be used twice, however, it was difficult to use as an escape tool. The new Q fixes that problem, but loses its double capability. Her W was decent since it passively granted you more attack damage and blocked one basic attack. It really helped turn things around in a 1v1. Her new W is actually pretty dang cool, but it immobilizes you making you more vulnerable if you're trying to run away. The old W allowed you to cast and move at the same time so it was really great if you had to run from an adc. Her E was part of what made Fiora so OP. It gave a huge attack speed boost and movement speed boost so you could blow targets up and if they ran away you could match their speed easily. The new E is good since it increases the attack speed of the next to basic attacks allowing you to slow and get the guaranteed crit on them. However, the old E could basically do the exact same since it increase the attack speed for a lot longer you could probably get more damage off from it instead of one crit strike. The slow isn't necessary since the old E also increase movement speed. As for the R....I'm not sure where to start. Old R allowed you to survive and kill at the same time and really took a chuck out of the enemies health in a team fight. That's basically all about that. As for the new R it is going to be very difficult to get all four sides activated, especially because people are probably going to try and keep building her as an assassin. Even if you made her a complete tank it would be really hard to pull this off since the other play can easily just flash away. A team fight would be even worse since the other team could just focus Fiora or protect the targeted ally.

Of course someone is probably going to come up with an incredible reason to shatter all of my points I just made, but that's why I asked in the first place. Why was it decided for Fiora to be reworked?

40 Comments

Angry Monster6 votes

When the rework came out, it said it changed Fiora from an assassin to a skirmishing duelist.

She was never supposed to be an assassin. It was one of riot's many attempts to make a light fighter. They are fixing a mistake.

64539310_DEL1 votes

She's not but what are people do things that aren't supposed to be done with champions all the time. Breaking meta and whatever. I mean, who would have thought Vayne would be going jungle? Sated devourer changed that. And who decides to take to take Tahm top lane? It works right? So why change it?

Angry Monster2 votes

I am not even going to bother with your specific examples since they do not matter(though they are trash and low elo ideas).

Taking a functioning and well designed champ into a off lane is one thing. Everyone knows Fio is supposed to be a dualest. Her original kit is a pretty much a failure on all accounts. Duealests are supposed to be about the out play, nothing about old fio is about that. All she has is fight when low ult and sustain up and then hope to it kills you or your low and she kills you afterwards.

Nothing about current fio is interesting, healthy, or good game play.

64539310_DEL1 votes

Yeah she doesn't take a lot of skill to play, but you have to actually do well in the early game in order to reach that point where you don't have to have any skill. Sorry that's a little confusing...and just because she isn't what she's supposed to be doesn't mean that she has a bad kit right?

Angry Monster1 votes

and just because she isn't what she's supposed to be doesn't mean that she has a bad kit right

Yes and no. First off her identity is the duelist. If she is not going to be that and her kit is going to be something else then she either needs a kit rework or another identity.

The kit has been under-tuned cause of how binary it has been. Its either you are a head and you win no matter what or your behind and you lose not matter what. This is not good game play.

Sine the kit is bad and the kit also does not fit the identity of the champ, it has been reworked.

64539310_DEL1 votes

I'm not gonna say that the kit matched her, but it wasn't a bad kit...

Angry Monster1 votes

your opinion, and many will disagree with you.

But due to how the kit worked it was a kit that kept her under tuned. Any kit that is I win or I lose based solely on if i am head or not, is not good kit as in healthy for the game.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kaosu Desu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bolLiFWU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-07-23T17:50:44.742+0000)

She was never supposed to be an assassin. It was one of riot's many attempts to make a light fighter. They are fixing a mistake.

you mean making a bigger mistake. she will be less viable than old fiora, which is a horrible thought. im so sick of riot making everyone, including assassins, into brusiers. its so retarded.

Angry Monster2 votes

She was not supposed to be an assassin. Get that through your thick skull.

Best Darius KR5 votes

Firstly, like you said, it's turning her into a duelist, which IS what she is supposed to do.

Secondly, champions don't get reworked because they are weak/overpowered. They get reworked because they are broken and/or lack counter-play to their kit, which in turn leads to them getting less budget on their kit and less interaction between player and opponent.

In the case of Fiora, many people think she is weak, but riot can't buff her since she SEVERELY lacks mechanical counter-play.

64539310_DEL1 votes

But why Fiora? There are other broken champions besides her. I will admit that there IS little counter play to her kit.

Best Darius KR3 votes

Right now, there are, like, 5 champions being reworked at the same time by Riot.

Fiora's rework just got finished quicker

64539310_DEL1 votes

cough cough katarina.....

Durzaka1 votes

Just because you dont like a champion doesnt mean they are broken or lack counter-play.

There is plenty you can do to stop Kat. There isnt anything you can do to stop an ulting Fiora.

64539310_DEL1 votes

Well there was at a time. It didn't actually make you invulnerable just untargetable. There were multiple times where I've died mid ult. And Fiora is too easy to stop. All it takes is basically a Nautilus.

Durzaka1 votes

Counter picking is not counter player.

for 90% of the champion pool, there is nothing they can do against an ulting fiora except hope they dont die and they can burst her when she comes out.

But god help you if youre in a team fight and Fiora holds her ult until she is low hp, then ults hits your entire team with hydra multiple times and comes out with 60%+ hp.

64539310_DEL1 votes

I said Nautilus as an example because he has a lot of cc. All it really takes to shut Fiora down is two stuns, roots, or knock ups. I should have elaborated.

Durzaka1 votes

So does literally every champion in the entire game that doesnt have CC immunity.

That isnt what counter play is.

64539310_DEL1 votes

Yeah it's counter picking. You can't stop Fiora from ulting unless you kill her. The same applies to Zeds R and Fizzs E. You can do litterally nothing to stop those. You can't stop Malphites ult either. Not trying to argue but I'm saying that she's not the only one.

Durzaka1 votes

Except you can continue to beat the shit out of Zed while he ults you.

Fizz's E is a separate problem that most agree isnt good, so citing that isnt very helpful for your argument.

64539310_DEL1 votes

Well I'll say one last thing about it then. It has a pretty long cooldown and Fiora stops her ult on the person she targeted. So if you play smart you can just walk under a tower and wait for her to die under it.

Durzaka1 votes

It's a good thing a proper Fiora player understands that and will still kill you with it anyways and walk away from the turret.

Also, turrets arent exactly always there for you to get a revenge kill (because that is what it is, because youre gonna die anyways you only hope she dies to the turret).

64539310_DEL1 votes

It doesn't have to be a turret though. Could be an enemy. And yea I'll be honest and say I've won more than one lane from ulting on them under their tower. But that's only when I know I can. Also there is the tiniest chance that you could teleport back to base and get a kill but that's just a random fluke and not a counter play tactic. (note that I said teleport not recall)

Vistha Kai3 votes

Really? She was only untargetable?

That's so easy to counter!

Yeah. She went Q-AA-Q-AA-R in under a second to kill everybody, but the tank and the guy with Zhonya.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Three words. Feast or famine.

They explained it well already. Basically, even though she was "balanced," she was unhealthy. If she got ahead, it wasn't feasible to stop her. If she got behind, she was worthless. These points have little to do with your arguments, which I agree are somewhat sound. Somewhat.

But it isn't fun to have champs in the game that decide the game all by themselves. When you play with Old Fiora, you win or lose based on her performance. It was only outlying cases when a Fiora could lose lane and win the game, and vice versa. That's what she was changed.

64539310_DEL2 votes

Ok that makes more sense. I was under the impression that everyone was saying that she was unbalanced. And yeah if you're fed it's basically GG, but there's still the chance you could lose. It doesn't matter if your argument has anything to do with my points just as long as you help me understand why she was changed, which you did.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I hope I did!

I hate it when I see a post like this downvoted. It's a good question to ask, and the community should do a better job of explaining things at the level to which you are asking the question. The top post, some jazz about a light fighter, is particularly unhelpful to you, I think.

Now, to follow up on something else I saw... Yes, there are more broken champs than Fio. Based on some red posts I've seen (and some assumptions I've made), they don't necessarily triage that way. The most broken champ isn't always first on the list. The champ first on the list is the one that someone has a good idea for. It sounds like Stashu had a good idea about how to fix her, and they gave him the green light to try. When he has a similarly good idea for Yorick or Urgot, I trust he will get time to work on them, too.

64539310_DEL2 votes

Thanks a lot man! I wish more people in LoL had your attitude!

Prospector Pete1 votes

Fiora was worthless when behind, and super powerful when ahead.

64539310_DEL1 votes

Like I said, so are other champions.

Prospector Pete1 votes

Fiora had absolutely no crowd control, though. Other champions can bring utility, she can't bring anything.

64539310_DEL1 votes

That's true. She has no cc whatsoever. That actually makes a huge impact on my opinion now. Even though other champs have no cc they still have more aoe.

The Whamboozler1 votes

All they needed to tweak was her ult. That was the ONLY problem with Fiora. Her passive was REALLY weak, but meh... her ult was the only problem. They didn't need to rework her visuals... they were good. They didn't need to rework her splash... it was good! They just needed to change her ult!

64539310_DEL1 votes

I'm really upset with the splash :/

Critmaster Garen1 votes

fioras new kit looks awesome. she just needs changes to her ult imo.

that aoe heal doesnt make much sense. herself, fine. but instead of healing allies she needs something like a reset ability after triggering all 4 marks, or cc immunity on her ult, that helps her keep going through a teamfight and not getting shit on by cc when she tries to move around her target. her riposte only helps her so far. someone like nautilus with more than a single cc ability could still completely dump on her and make sure shes never going to use her ult properly in a teamfight.

on the other hand, heavy cc on her side might make it pretty easy. shes going to end up very team dependent for a duellist.

[{quoted}](name=Hallows Evelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bolLiFWU,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-07-23T19:12:47.739+0000)

you mean making a bigger mistake. she will be less viable than old fiora, which is a horrible thought. im so sick of riot making everyone, including assassins, into brusiers. its so retarded.

the goal is to make her into a melee cary, not into a bruiser. its what she was originally intended for. she only turned out as an assassin by accident. and not a very good one. as an assassin, she had kill potential but lacked escape. she wasnt like zed who could unleash his chain on a target and then jump out. either her ult rekt the enemy team, or she was as good as dead sitting between her enemies after the ult finished.

she has a lot of incentives to build a ton of ad. especially from her passive. as it is right now, the true damage can get quite excessive with a lot of ad.

someone managed to get her ult to 200% max health true damage. meaning, 2 marks triggered would kill anyone and everyone in the game. even a full tank sion. of course this is an extreme example thats probably not going to be afeasable build. but even with a half decent adc build, you an get between 60% and 80% max health true damage off 4 marks right now. thats still enough to kill anyone.

hydra, bt, cleaver, maw, ga would make her ult monstrous.

the heal on her ult also scales with bonus ad.

a bruiser build wouldnt turn out very useful on her. and any melee or ranged adc is still supposed to build at least 1 defensive item anyways.

64539310_DEL1 votes

What if they made the ult similar to poppys? like to where she had one objective and was resistant to damage rather than immune?

Only Play Darius1 votes

"Why did Fiora get reworked?"

Because right now she is really just a shitty version of MasterYi.

Her laning pattern was obnoxious, consisted of lvl2 all-in with lightspeed gapcloser and pray to god your stats are better than theirs.

When she falls behind she is absolute garbage.

Overall her original concept was novel, but she was rushed and her abilities weren't fully fleshed out.

Not necessarily agreeing with the direction of her rework, but she did need one.

64539310_DEL1 votes

Personally I like Fiora better than Yi, but Yi is better at coming back if he does fall behind.

Baby Ghoul1 votes

I'm so glad they fixed her. Climbing and including her in team comps will be so much more comfortable now.

As it stands, you are completely reliant on getting damage items before anyone else because you are only a high DPS mobile champion. You need to get a kill early, grab items, snowball other lanes. That is the formula for all games. She has no CC, no escapes, and she's relatively squishy. She is AA reliant on top of that. You do not have a lot to fall back on if you fail because of how Riot originally designed her.

If you do not kill, then you fall off hard and your team has to carry you. Many Fioras start to feed at this point too. Teamwork doesn't really come into play until very late game, and almost all Fioras act like assassins instead of bruisers. She just doesn't bring a lot to the table there. The one major reason she's liked so much for climbing is because at our ELO people do not work as a team more often than not, and that's a slightly fed assassin's dream.

She's always had so much potential in her fast reaction times, and I'm glad they kept that and expanded it. However you can pretty much face roll as Fiora in bronze, and more than half the time in silver/gold from my experience. The real skill in playing her comes in when you are matched with someone who knows how Fiora operates, or can counter her. Since she's so one dimensional, it can be devastating or very hard to outplay.

So many things counter Fiora's ult, and some can cancel it. I'm not going to use it for the majority of the team fight because the moment I land I know I'm going to get locked down, and blasted off the map. She is not a bruiser, so she can't be on the front lines. It's more effective in smaller skirmishes, or sticking to someone who is getting away. I also see Fioras use it as a lazy way to turret dive, but I don't think you really need it for that. Her lunge and parry are the abilities that make Fiora a killing machine, but that are rarely recognized.

They need to rework all feast or famine champions, and with how well they pulled off Fiora's kit, I'm hopeful for the future. This rework gave her so much more power and reliability, while taking away some of the things that made it painful playing against and with a Fiora.

64539310_DEL2 votes

Thanks a lot for your opinion! I agree that her ult is 100% overrated and most of the time it doesn't deal that much damage in team fights. I sometimes don't even realize I have my ult until everything is dead.

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