Change Zyra's passive

Gorzke··5 votes·472 views

As her kit is already well rounded, and her passive is the most underwhelming part of her kit, what about changing her passive for something more reliable? Something like:

  • Queen of Thorns: "Zyra autoattacks deal X(+Y per level)(+K%AP) bonus magic damage over Z seconds. This damage is increased by 5% for each Seed or Plant currently on the field"

This would accomplish her mage role of "High Range DPS Mage with Burst Potential" , and as the damage is dealt over time, she doesn't need to invest in AS to deal damage. Also it gives her a theme, a Poisonus Plant (She Hurts, don't touch her) and does fit with her skins (Fire, Undead).

Ideas?

8 Comments

Zielmann3 votes

She really doesn't need to do more easy damage. If they did something like this, they would have to take away some of her burst damage from somewhere else, which would likely make her less satisfying to play.

Sometimes I wish the passive didn't have quite as much of a delay on it before you could actually fire the shot, but I also understand the reason that it's there. Perhaps speed up the projectile just a smidge, if anything at all. But I really think she's fine where she is.

Gorzke1 votes

Yes, that is true. What I want to acomplish with this change is to move her away from supp lane, or at least, move some power from her supp. buget to her mage budget.

Giving some numbers*:

P: CHANGED: Autoattacks deal 30 (+5/level) (+25% AP) bonus magic damage over 3 sec. Q: Down to 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 / 190 (+ 55% AP) from 70 / 105 / 140 / 175 / 210 (+ 65% AP) W: Plants damage down to 22 (+6/level) (+20% AP) from 23 (+6.5/level) (+20% AP) [At level 18 130 from 140] E: Down to 60 / 85 / 110 / 135 / 160 (+ 40% AP) from 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+ 50% AP)

Her damage would increase at early levels, and not much at late. But she would be forced to AA, something she does at mid lane and shouldn't do at bot because she can't affor being low at bot lane.

*Numbers just made up.

Zielmann2 votes

I actually think this would push her more into support than mid lane, since her burst drops with this. And I actually think your numbers on the nerfs to compensate are backwards. She would need her early damage values all dropped to compensate, while at later ranks, it could probably scale up to what we have now. If you add early game damage, you have to take it away from somewhere else. And the AA damage would really be most noticeable in the early game (see: Teemo).

And if Zyra is playing support right, she'll be getting autos in down there, too. Her auto range is on par with most Marksmen.

Gorzke2 votes

Well, I main Zyra, and I can tell you that is NOT a good idea to harras with autoattacks (Different from Trade). If you AA an enemy champion, the minion wave will hurt Zyra as she has very low Health/Armor. Also, her burst wouldn't change at all (she is always in AA range on TF, 575 is over the top), she just would have a finisher ability.

Zielmann1 votes

I main support, and as with any ranged support, harassing with autos is not uncommon. And you can quickly drop the minion aggro if you duck in and out of the brush. The extra damage on auto-attack is really not necessary for this (she already can be very oppressive as a support).

You have to ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish with the change you propose. And not only that, but what is the problem? Her current passive is fine. And you shouldn't really be relying on it for anything. It just means that after she dies, she still has one last shot to deal some damage. This is very situational and doesn't really apply to trading or harassing she does in lane. So her power during laning is actually completely independent on whether she has this passive or not.

With that in mind, your suggested change does nothing but give Zyra more early game power. You just gave her bonus damage on auto-attack, from the start of the game, and tried to compensate by making her late game weaker. That makes no sense. If you add early game damage to one place, you need to take away early damage from somewhere else.

Zyra is in a fine place as it is. She doesn't need more early-game damage than she has right now. I feel like you're trying to fix something that isn't broken, and making that fix in all the wrong ways. If he passive feels useless, that tells me you aren't relying on that passive damage for anything. But she also doesn't lack damage outside the passive. So rather than replacing situational damage with strong, guaranteed, steady damage, I'd go more along the lines of suggesting some manner of utility passive instead. Just to throw something random out there, maybe she could have reduced death timers, and they could call the passive Springtime Thaw or something like that.

Gorzke1 votes

Well, I have to say that if enemies don't ward brush they are doing it wrong.

Also, I didn't make her late game worse. I made it better. Single-Target damage is the same, and she can share her new passive damage among targets to deal more damage.

Andway, Zyra IS in a fine place, im happy playing her and is really satysfying to master her too. But

Rise of the Thorns Damage reduced to 100-440 from 124-549. Missile speed reduced to 1900 from 2200. Missile width reduced to 70 from 90.

That made her passive one of the most unreliable damage abilities. And I just dont feel that its a passive worth keeping. Its a "One last shot" with stupid damage and even more stupid unrealibility.

Zielmann1 votes

Zyra is a burst mage. Your proposal significantly lowers not only the base damage Q and E later in the game, but also the AP scaling. In this rendition, she would probably feel pretty awful to play when comparing her to how she plays now, especially later in the game. This goes even further to push her into the direction of support rather than mid lane mage.

The usefulness of the bonus DoT on auto-attack will decline significantly later in the game, and even if it does respectable amounts of damage, it won't feel as satisfying to use (again, I cite AP Teemo as the prime example of this). Changing the passive as you suggest would require further changes to her that would make her less satisfying to play, even if the amount of damage she deals in the end is the same.

That's why I say leave the damage in her kit alone, and give her a new utility-related passive, if you so choose to change the passive. But I'll also say that sniping a kill with her passive is reasonably rewarding, even if you don't pull it off all that much.

Gorzke1 votes

She loses 10% AP on Q and E and Gains 25% AP on Passive. She loses 20, 10 and 40 damage on Q , W and E and gains 120 on Passive

I know its not satisfying, neither it is her current passive.

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