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Assassin Junglers?

Variks the Loyal··29 votes·9,551 views

Ever since the new season started, Assassin junglers have been a bit on the weak side. Tank junglers are great with Cinderhulk, and Bruiser junglers (Rek'sai, Lee Sin) can be just as strong. But Assassin junglers have fallen by the wayside. The harder hitting camps means squishy Assassins don't have as much sustain. They just farm till 6 so they can gank with their ults. What can we do to bring them back into viability?

Well, I don't think we need another Cinderhulk situation. Any Warrior buffs that help Assassins will just help Bruisers even more. And since there's only three real Assassin junglers anyway (Rengar, Kha'Zix, and Nocturne - Yi is more of a carry fighter like Fiora and Riven), it's only the champions that need buffing. My suggestions:

Increase Nocturne's base mana and mana regen, and maybe make his abilities cost less mana. Give him bonus Life Steal on Feared targets, for both more jungle sustain and more fight sustain. Maybe change his passive to be % based healing rather than flat.

Give Rengar and Kha'Zix new secondary effects to their passives.

Kha'Zix - Consume and Adapt - Slaying a large jungle monster heals Kha'Zix for a percentage of his missing health, and gives him the monster's Smite bonus, even if he didn't smite it. (This doesn't help any of Kha'Zix's other issues, but I'm just trying to help the Assassins with jungle clear and sustain, so they aren't at low hp the whole time).

Rengar - Scent of Prey - While in a bush, Rengar has heat vision of all jungle monsters within leap range. If he leaps at a jungle monster, the monster is feared for 2 seconds and Rengar gains Ambush, increasing his damage dealt and reducing damage taken from monsters by 20%.

Any other ideas? Anyone feel the Assassin junglers are kinda weak in terms of clear ad sustain?

62 Comments

ZeeDrakon14 votes

erm... op much? Lol. That would singlehandedly make those two the best junglers in the game.

Oh and noc is rather a bruiser than an assasin usually

Variks the Loyal4 votes

Riot tags Noc as an Assassin.

ladention8 votes

riot is wronk

TenSlashTen3 votes

60% lifesteal noc http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/miscellaneous/7V8iZhjl-i-just-played-60-lifesteal-nocturne-to-counter-rumble-top-lolol

Jabberwöcky1 votes

{quoted}

erm... op much? Lol. That would singlehandedly make those two the best junglers in the game.

Oh and noc is rather a bruiser than an assasin usually

I agree with this on both points.

Noc is "now" a bruiser, get 1-2 damage items, MAYBE 3 if your super fed and the game will be short, but you always get a SV/Banshees +Mercs+Rands. My typical Noc build is Red smite + Devourer, Bork, Rands, Banshees, Mercs, GA.

But with that said, his fear + Lifesteal idea, isnt that bad, give it an additional 2% lifesteal on target, each rank, would be pretty neat.

Endogenic10 votes

why does this have so many upvotes? It's a terrible idea! Original poster is unranked and has 500 normal games..............

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/EMFsa0ot-lmao-gameplay-balance

DrathTurtle3145 votes

What should we do with Evelynn then? Are we calling Nidalee a mage here I assume? Does Elise fit in the same category as nidalee? Shaco was missed as well.

Other than that, I agree with what was said be FlyingGünther, giving kha'zix free vision denial is ridiculous(smite buff from raptors) or vision from the wolf camp or giving him a free thornmail(gromp buff) without even charging him his smite cooldown.

Regar doesn't need a fear. 2 seconds is a huge amount of time for any cc effect.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

I did forget Eve and Shaco, I'm sorry.

And yeah, I was calling Nidalee a mage.

I was thinking of unique, thematic ways to improve their clears. The jungle is Rengar's natural domain, so he would be able to leap about it gracefully. Kha'Zix consumes those he slays and adapts based on their skills. I don't think it would make Kha'Zix too powerful, especially in his current state. If anything, it would free him up to use Chilling/Challenging Smite over Blasting Smite.

And the fear is only for jungle monsters. Rengar is really squishy in his early clears.

Father Cthulhu1 votes

why not move the fear to his enhanced W? It fits the theme better, and it's easier to balance than jumping from a bush. If you let him fear from bush, he can just bait blue/red into a bush and clear with 0 damage taken.

largefish3 votes

I've been playing loads of nocturne lately and i think he's actually in a pretty good spot right now, he has much better clear times/sustain than the other assassin junglers and can gank more easily without losing too much farm.

grLKQ9ma0o3 votes

Nocturne is more of a bruiser jungler.

The only real assassin junglers left are Khazix Rengar

most of the others can be built bruiser. Shaco is an assassin, but he definitely doesn't need a buff for his sustain.

Ace Access 1 votes

so MasterYi is no longer an assassin ?

The Bíg Ticket2 votes

He is a carry.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

Nope. His kit is entirely a sustained damage kit. Does he do a lot of damage in a short amount of time? Sure, but he's honestly just a melee ADC. Not much assassin-like about his abilities.

djjomon2 votes

From what I hear, Rengar is sleeper freelo. Not sure if it's true though. But if they need any buffs, it's only jungle specific buffs. You have the right idea, but you're going WAYYYY too far.

I'll give it a shot.

Nocturne: Neutral monsters on Nocturne's Q trail take X more damage from basic attacks. Or the first auto on a large monster, sitting on Q's trail take X (X%?) more damage. Something like that.

Kha'Zix: Increased healing against neutral monsters from W.

Rengar: Fine as is, just not meta. Buffing him anywhere would be problematic.

Only Play Darius1 votes

He is sleeper freelo if played top.

N3mO061 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=beFEAtFH,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-04-23T21:24:01.959+0000)

He is sleeper freelo if played top.

yes, freelo gankable, with no escape , zero hard cc and with an ult lv 6 with 3 sec of delay if he is hit. Do you want to compare Rengar with jax, riven, irelia, Fiora, renekton, he is just a kitty against this champs

Only Play Darius1 votes

That's why his Plat+ winrate is 5% higher when played top instead of jungle (48% vs 53%).

http://champion.gg/champion/Rengar/Top

Not saying it's a good thing, he belongs in the jungle and I personally hate fighting him top. Everything about his theme screams jungler, so seeing him in lane is off-putting.

GanksLikeGast0n2 votes

They are a bit weak, with the exceptions of Diana and Shaco .

Also, I am disappointed that MonkeyKing did not make your assassin jungler list.

Variks the Loyal4 votes

I did completely forget about Shaco! I'm sorry.

And Wukong is a Fighter, I thought.

GanksLikeGast0n2 votes

Kind of? He has the passive of a tank and the kit of an assassin. His scaling is so good, and his kit is so burst based that he functions amazingly as an full damage assassin, and he doesn't have the utility to be a particularly good bruiser or tank. Basically Stealth => Nimbus strike => AA+Q reset => ult. If you have a hydra work the active in there.

Here is an amazing guide that helped out my Wukong play ALOT.

http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/119570-wukong-build-guide-apc-fighter-by-allorim

MrStealYourDuo2 votes

Wukong is definitely a fighter, an auto attack buff and aoe cc ultimate are very fighter related skills, and his passive is very tank-like.

IcyPepper2 votes

Wouldn't that make him a bruiser then?

Narasimha2 votes

he doesn't have the utility to be a particularly good bruiser

Utility does not a bruiser make. A bruiser is between a tank and a dps unit. He has more damage than a tank, but less utility. Less damage than a carry, but is tankier. Hence why Shyvanna is a considered a bruiser, despite her overall lack of utility.

Penta Penguin2 votes

Okay, the vision of jungle camps is cool, but Rengar already has pretty good Jungle defense and heal on his W

Variks the Loyal2 votes

Not really. If you use Emp W for sustain, your clear suffers because you can't use Emp Q. And he's squishy if you don't build him tanky. Three camps and you need to recall.

N3mO062 votes

{quoted}

Okay, the vision of jungle camps is cool, but Rengar already has pretty good Jungle defense and heal on his W

Try to use the heal with rengar and You will die at the second campXD

Shield Villain2 votes

Rengar already has 4 passives, given he gains stacks and can choose from 1 of 3 unique passives. Definitely a no, he's also got a lot of sustain and no mana. How about we just leave him alone since he's in a good spot?

Kha'Zix has needed some love for a long time now, some buffs or changes in general would do him some good.

Nocturne is fine too. His passive heals him and has a built in Hydra every 10 seconds.

If you really, absolutely, want to get more than 2-3 camps, then learn to clear them effectively or go Utility. Utility Udyr can easily remain in his jungle only upgrading Phoenix and Tiger to clear his camps. The only sustain he gains is the tiny fraction from getting Turtle. He doesn't really sacrifice any strength either, since the utility helps him farm and sustain better.

The problem with Cinderhulk still lies in "You need to build it first before you can really get anything." Really tank junglers only become really good once they get their item. Which is essentially the same for these Assassin junglers.

Evelynn is easily an assassin jungler. Great clear speeds, no HP sustain. Yet she does better at staying in her jungle than even some bruisers and tanks.

Personally, I've never had any trouble clearing camps with Rengar once I get my first item. He's not in such a bad spot that I just can't even get there. He's fine where he is. So I honestly don't know where this "Let's buff Assassin Junglers" is coming from. I'm down for a Kha'zix buff, but Rengar and Nocturne, no thanks.

WolfChases1 votes

WoW I like you dude. :O

When I am jungling as Rengar, Kha and Nocturne believe me, I am afraid that I'm gonna get counter jungled by Sejuani :D :D

Rengar - Kill Gromp > Blue > Red > Back > upgrade item 1039 and get 1 item 2003 Nocturne - SAME Kha'Zix - SAME

As Sejuani, I can do 4 camps before 1st back and I will be able to afford myself upgraded item 1039 few item 2003 and maybe a item 2044

The difference is hudge!

Death by Kayn1 votes

As Kha the best route is: Gromp (smite) > Blue > Wolves Go B, get trailblazer. Ward red Krugs (smite) > Red > Chickens (smite) Order can be flipped if on blue side and getting a very hard leash from bot. Kha's first clear sucks, but after that he is an absolute BEAST. You just need to pick and choose carefully what you initiate on, which is what I feel an assassin SHOULD be like

Toothierosprey31 votes

I don't think Nocturne needs any buffs, even though bonus lifesteal on feared targets sounds pretty cool.

Dandymann1 votes

Diana Scary enough for me

THESuperStuntMan1 votes

Unfortunately, if assassin jungles are ever strong, they become permabans even if they're not OP, cuz everyone always bans out the junglers. :(

Dwaboutit1 votes

too true.

as an assassin main I face several problems

  1. mid is never a guaranteed spot for me either due to pick order, bull shit calls or trolls
  2. if I get mid, my mains get banned 80% of the time
  3. if I don't get banned its because the enemy mid laner is better than I am and picks a counter/while I don't get the necessary jg support due to being solo queue.

now I look to the jungle for greener pastures

TenSlashTen1 votes

well after riot dumpstered khazix I stopped caring about assassin junglers. I used to play lichbane eve back in s2 on post stun removal eve.

eve base stats too shitty. AP bruiser eve better now I'm glad assassins are dieing from jungle anyway. Fuck assassins, sick of them... 3 years of that shit...3 years man. Never again.

I try noc but I cant seem to win games as him lol. He's just too shit and easy to play against now a days. gap closers everywhere. easy to land CC everywhere. Just too hard.

Capman1 votes

I think kha should get the damage portion of his passive on jungle monsters without reseting. That is all he needs to clear more effectively. Other then that he's a late game oriented jungler who has to build warrior. A Bug's Life is rough man.

Rengar works fantastic as a cinder hulk jungler actually. Cinderhulk having a nice benefit of only working in combat so you can ultimate in without revealing yourself. Just go black cleaver Bork spirit Visage randuins/thornmail and boots of some kind. Been working for me. Should be even better with the BC change next patch too. +10% CDR, a total of 30% Armor shred, and being tankier at the cost of 10 AD and 10 flat armor pen? yes pls. Only down side is it will be slightly harder to kill squishy champions in a 1 second but that's not the point of the build anyway.

Angry Monster1 votes

So the problem is with assassins that they are not healthy in the jungle. Riot has stated that they do not want junglers completely deciding lanes. Well what else is an assassin going to do? With riot saying that they want junglers on par with the duo lane for experience, it hurts jungle assassins.

Pretty much assassins need to find a lane

Chespin20131 votes

isn't nocturne more of a bruiser grant it his design made him look like a assassin but really his overall stats just moved him over to a bruiser

stillserenity1 votes

how can you guys forget Evelynn !!!!!! you get a kill low on hp and bang she comes out of no where and gets ya....she doesnt need a ulti to kill you especially if she goes pure ap or pure ad (ad takes long to kill someone in my opinion) her ulti is just so she gets tanky in team fights...all those spikes......

ChromeFluxx1 votes

I disagree highly with Kha'zix passive having a secondary passive that gives smite buffs without the cost of using smite. The point of smite is to use it on camps for buffs. What's the point of carrying smite if you're kha'zix? What it should do instead is amplify the amount of gains you get from the buffs, or increase the duration and such. BUT ONLY WHEN YOU PHYSICALLY USE THE SMITE.

Death by Kayn1 votes

Bruh. Kha main here. Kha does just fine against tank junglers, oftentimes outperforming them. Kha needs a little early clear help, and he will be in a very good state.

biggad20011 votes

GNB full of retards.

NorthernDruid1 votes

Which assassins should be allowed to be recognized as a jungler?

Generalized help to assassins in the jungle (whether through items, masteries or jungle changes) would help all currently functioning assassin junglers and open up further for assassin's which could jungle with a bit of aid.

That said <3 Jungle Akali

The Red Warden1 votes

I feel as though assassin junglers are supposed to be weaker than their counter-parts in the jungle, they then make up for it by having stronger/ deadlier ganks. What you are suggesting would just make these two godlike and the other junglers sh-t in comparison.

Make their ganking ability stronger to enforce their role, don't just make them better versions of others. That restricts variety instead of encouraging it.

Jakojo1 votes

Is this guy high?!

Theorchero1 votes

That is broken as all hell.

I am so fucking glad Riot doesn't listen to people like you.

ChickenWrap1 votes

This is a poor idea. The only two junglers you would then see are Kha'Zix and Rengar because they would become insane clear machines that are nigh unkillable in their own jungle.

They're fine right now as they are, honestly. If anyone has to adapt -- it's you. Cinderhulk junglers don't run the game right now unless their name is Sejuani, which is an issue with her damage scaling up too high with her health, not Cinderhulk.

Raja Chachki1 votes

But...there are more assassin junglers/junglers that are OFTEN played assassin:Akali Elise Evelynn Diana Nidalee Shaco Talon (I'll admit Talon and Akali are rather weak junglers, shouldn't be played)

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Having invisible champions with the freedom of map movement so they can come out of nowhere and instakill you, no thanks. It's an unhealthy game mechanic.

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