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My feelings about current midlane Zyra

An Undead brat··36 votes·1,682 views

Hi, I'm Sexy Bisex Plant (someone might know me) and I come to you with my little QQ.

So, a year ago when she was reworked as a part of the MYMU, Riot said they'll make Zyra mid viable again. I'm not going to lie - they succeeded, Even though many Zyra players didn't like the RNG passive spawning, I actually liked it. I felt like commanding a garden (which was a goal of the rework) and I actually considered playing around the places where seeds spawned a part of Zyra's mastery curve.

But guess what happened. People took her to support again and she has been nerfed for that.

a flashbacks plays

Right now it might be caused by the direct nerfs, indirect nerfs (Rylai's rework for example or current Lifesteal domination) or even just the current meta, but I feel right now like Zyra was bad mid. Like really bad, so bad I'd pick AP Rakan rather instead (which a played fairly often and it's not a bad pick, but it still testifies).

It's ok, that happens to most of the champions time to time,

BUT the problem is that in support role Zyra is still completely ok. What does that mean? It means the rework failed in this goal and also that she probably won't get buffed in the near future.

I don't know what happened to the plant changes from 7.11 that got scrapped, which I honestly think that would help to improve her midlane and make her less frustrating to lane against without affecting support, but I just want to tell you I liked them. Please, consider applying them again or SOMETHING other, because it tears my heart apart - I have NEVER since the end of season 4 when I started playing and immediately maining her enjoyed her less.

Riot, please...

EDIT: If someone is interested in my Zyra rework concept

53 Comments

ZapMyHeart4 votes

Her RNG plants are the reason why she's popular in bot lane. Great zoning potential and hard CC without much need for AP to do huge damage. Perfect for support role.

As for her mid lane potential, she still does great. This is coming from someone who played her a lot prior to MYMU. Current Zyra is easy mode in mid lane compared to pre-MYMU Zyra and even more so in bot lane (I took her down there long before people caught on the mid mage support train).

If you want her mid again, take away her dumb passive and give back her old one. Because at the moment, there's no reason to take her back mid when she wrecks bot lane hard.

An Undead brat12 votes

there's no reason to take her back mid when she wrecks bot lane hard.

Other than my honor that prevents me from that.

Thefrostyviking4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bQkVRoJE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-15T18:08:13.739+0000)

Other than my honor that prevents me from that.

You, i like you.

+1

I was doing the same with malz before his recent changes. I had a 9 outa 10 games winstreak in ranked on him.

Altho that was only in gold, but it still felt great.

Ark Sorcerer4 votes

I really like Zyra the mage. I like her plants, her concept and design. She is an immobile, zone controlling mage. I liked playing her mid and it was fun. Won some, lost some but it was nice seeing people struggle with the plants and taking a lot of damage.

As someone who values actual supports, I dislike Zyra support because she only offers her E as a form of utility (and her ult, but I am talking about basic abilities) while other supports have all three offer utility: between healing/shielding, and some cc. Zyra has an addition of zoning, which is great but not necessary but great.

I personally feel like the supporting class needs a rework that actual makes people see the value of having a Janna, Nami, Sona, Thresh, Braum or Lulu over a Brand, Annie or Zyra any and every game. And if actual supports become meta and champs like Zyra leave bot lane, Riot can design Zyra like a proper mid laner. Even if the design of Zyra is good for mid, if support role has it where having a secondary mage is sufficient, there is no easy way to help her without a huge rework.

That is where I think most of the issues lie. Why go Janna support with a shield and a ult heal to keep your team alive with impactful cc (Q, R and ... E?) when you can go Zyra who has a little less damage than the mid lane mage with impactful cc (E and R).

I think if we can change the support role to where those with heals and shields are valued over damage, it can help Zyra go to mid where she was intended.

Just my opinion. Thoughts on this?

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Zyra support can also block multiple skillshots. That's one of the most important reasons to play her in certain matchups.

Ark Sorcerer2 votes

Getting a plant, Q or E, in get it to block said skill shot is hard on any champion that is not Thesh. But I have done it before.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

It's actually not that difficult if you know how to play her.

Ark Sorcerer2 votes

It is more of an issue of reaction, timing and prediction. I think blocking those Karma Qs may be difficult, especially if they are not amplified by her ult.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Karma Q is not worth blocking. Just dodge that.

Ark Sorcerer2 votes

It is just an example but context is needed: is the marksmen or yourself in kill range of a Q? Key spells would be a Blitz Q but unless you are Ekko and actually reversed time or become Raven from That's So Raven, blocking that spell must be hard in terms of timing it without Blitz making it obvious to see it.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Blitz is also incredibly easy to predict. He's a one trick pony. The best Zyra matchups are all the hookers. They are incredibly predictable and have nothing after they blow it.

Ark Sorcerer2 votes

I don't think predicting a Blitzcrank Q is hard, unless the marksmen is behind nothing and Blitz just Qs. I am saying it is more of an issue of placing the plant, Qing, and letting it rise/grow as the hook is going to said player.

The best Zyra matchups are all the hookers.

You could have worded that better. I know you are talking about Blitz, Thresh and Naut; though I would argue she is better against Thresh than the other two due to the delay he has with his Q. However, when I first read that, I thought of an actual hooker.

Side Note: AHHH your Icon.

P0IS0N IVY2 votes

You should never Q to block a hook. That ability is too slow. E is much faster.

The word hooker is intentional. It's a well-known pun for Blitz, Thresh, and Naut.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

How is Zyra's Q slower? Zyra's E is slow for a line skill shot. Are you talking about when a plant is close to you versus a distance or something? Or do you mean the plant forming is quicker for her E over her Q?

Somewhat how one W Q E, the plant is from her E and not her Q? Otherwise, I fail to see how.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Zyra's Q has a short delay for plant spawning. We're talking about blocking skills shots so yeah I'm talking about how fast each skill makes a plant.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

And Zyra's E spawns plant faster than her Q? I understand.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

Yes because her E has no cast delay.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

But it does have a travel delay. So does that translate for the plants to summon more quickly than with her Q?

Thanks. You have been of great help with this specific topic.

JaxMoonStealer3 votes

Actually, traditional supports are the current meta. Zyra and Malz stopped being top picks a while ago.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

Sure but Riot isn't going to say we can buff Zyra to mid lane potential because she is not meta. It would have to be in a state where Riot acknowledges that "traditional" supports ( I use primary but that excludes champs like Naut or Blitz) are meta and Zyra will rarely be seen support and have low win rates if it does.

That is what I am hoping for.

SchmidttyGames2 votes

Zyra has a very specific function when I use her in Support these days. Namely, we're going to get our shit pushed in (See Xayah/Rakan or Kalista/Thresh for examples) and I need a way to defend a tower siege. No one defends a tower seige like a nesting Zyra. Better or worse, she is my go-to against heavy siege comps and the "molesterers" that grab upon you like Blitz.

She is feast or famine. Both safe and vulnerable, depending on what you're doing. As a Mastery 7 Zyra Support Main, I like where she is at right now. It takes skill to get plant damage in a minion wave. So if you're facing a Zyra that makes you feel like it's 3 months ago, they're good at it.

Ark Sorcerer1 votes

I mean, I understand what you are saying. I personally would prefer Zyra in the mid lane and allow actual suppoprts to take the role.

But again, I understand what you are saying.

MysterQ3 votes

I was behind this until you said AP Rakan.

An Undead brat7 votes

I don't know how that contradicts this post, but I accept your opinion. :)

Poske1 votes

Hey dude atleast its not as bad as Mid morg

I normaly try to force peole to dodge game when they pick morg mid. Would never do that to zyra mid

An Undead brat4 votes

Morg is ok in mid tho, she's got no counter in the whole game, she's just safe af and scales like mad

Morgan le Fey2 votes

Seriously. If I wasn't so attached to Sightstone, I'd prolly be a mid Morg main (and tbh honestly should work on it, if only to have a way to hard-carry). Once mid Morg hits level 5, no one controls wave quite like her. No one expects the burst, either. <3

Edit: actually, the more I think about it, the more I wonder why I haven't been doing this more. I do well when I play her mid. If I can get over my vision obsession, I think it'd be super-fun. At minimum, it'd get me more S-ranks without screwing over my team. >.>

Cosnirak1 votes

Mid Morg is only good at lower ELOs now. She can still play safe higher up as an attempt to stop the enemy mid from getting fed without roaming, but she has no lane control, no pressure, no kill potential against skilled opponents who understand the matchup. Skilled players dodge your Qs, move the wave out of your W, avoid getting caught by your R, and beat you with either shoving the wave hard and roaming or abusing your low aa range and poking you harder than your mana can handle.

I mained Morg mid for a long time, currently have over half a million mastery on her, and used her to climb from B4 to P5. For now I've swapped to playing support because mid has just a few too many horribly op champs, though I usually don't pick Morg as support either because support itemization is not good for her atm.

Morgan le Fey2 votes

Well, I'm at lower elos. :P

I'm actually much more confident in my ability to support at higher elos anyways. I pretty consistently out-support gold/plat supports on the rare occasions that playing with higher-elo friends. Before you ask, yes, I do actually out-support them. I'm not just being carried. Sadly, I don't have enough aggression and, frankly, willingness to play damage-carry supports to take over games consistently in Bronze. That said, I am slowly rising anyways now that I'm actually playing Ranked more than once month. We'll see how things play out.

And yeah, support itemization is the worst for her right now. New items are very slightly better, but they're still no replacement for the stuff she actually needs as a champion. Definitely more of a Sona/Janna meta atm.

Poske1 votes

oh you sweet child...

she is considered a troll pick in eye of any non retarded high elo midlaner

An Undead brat2 votes

Well I can't see why she'd be bad

Autrah Fang3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sexy Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bQkVRoJE,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-06-15T17:26:57.833+0000)

I feel right now like Zyra was bad mid. Like really bad, so bad I'd pick AP Rakan rather instead (which a played fairly often and it's not a bad pick, but it still testifies).

staaaahhhhp. stahp it! stop complimenting AP Rakan mid! he's gonna end up getting nerfed because of it just like all the other supports that dared enter another lane! i have a hard enough time trying to main him as it is T_T (that might be my own fault though)

An Undead brat4 votes

Considering his trash winrate I wouldn't be scared at all in your place :)

kile1472 votes

Zyra still has the issue that her support role scales from the same stats that mid does, so nerfs to her numbers bring them both down. Has Riot ever tried making her seeds targetable by autos? Right now it's especially risky to preemptively disarm seeds bot lane because Zyra doesn't have to use spells for waveclear and she can punish anyone who tries to weed her garden. Make it so that they can be auto attacked and now instead of a zoning tool her passive becomes a minigame between the supports about keeping her plants subdued. The solo laner mid lane would have to split their attention between seeds and wave management though, giving Zyra more opportunities to either push or catch them. This could be combined with other buffs if it makes her too weak, but it seems like a decent way of nerfing support harder than mid lane.

P0IS0N IVY1 votes

The plant changes made her worse overall. They die with hardly any effort. You wouldn't want that. The MYMU introduced the concept of RNG, which in my opinion is not fun to play with and against at all. I prefer pre-rework Zyra at this point.

She's not horrible mid. More like a niche pick. The common assassin picks do very well against her, so that's why she isn't popular.

She will need to be completely redone with new abilities and everything if she is only to be played in mid and not support. But then it'd be like releasing a new champion.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

She's fine mid. Definitely better than Rakan, don't be hyperbolic.

An Undead brat3 votes

Just as I posted this discussion, I picked Zyra mid and actually got matched against AP Rakan. If I didn't play him and didn't respect him as anyone other wouldn't, he'd kick my ass - and his build was very uneffective!

Tobias Brackner1 votes

So you played against a skilled player? I fail to see how going against a player who is good with Rakan mid somehow proves that Zyra is bad mid.

What you really want to do is look at her kit/damage and compare it to other midlaners.

An Undead brat2 votes

Maybe if this was my only point and actually what I said, then your comment would make sence :) But no, I only said I'd pick him rather if I planned to win and that it's a solid pick.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Um, homie, your statement about Rakan mid is the only content you have to prove your point. You don't show any data or hard numbers to back up any of your other claims so they might as well be opinions.

An Undead brat2 votes

That's why this post is called "My feelings" and why I said "I'd rather". No facts, but points of my opinion.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Ah, so you just want to QQ about some bad Zyra games you had.

A Bepi1 votes

They technically already consider zyra a support so future changes to her will probably be balanced around support rather than mid. Unfortunately all we can expect is to see champions like karma, zyra, Morgana, brand to be balanced around support, which worries me because I love taking Morgana mid.

AccountaBilabudy1 votes

I have 94 games played on Zyra this season, and about 90% of those were mid lane. I think I have about a 70% winning rate mid with her. I really don't see where you're saying she's so bad. She has bad match ups sure. But she does just fine.

TBH she was stronger until the recent Abysal Scepter and Banshee's Veil changes. I used to rush Abysal and it was amazing. Rushing Banshee's is better defensively maybe but not nearly as good offensively.

Still though, a Banshee's -> Liandries -> Rylai's is really strong. Around mid game when she has those 3 items she can burst any squishy from 100-0 in one combo.

Super weak vs range ganks like Zac and Vi. Weak against Akali and Fizz. Weak against Anivia.

STRONG vs Annie, Lux, Ziggs, Yasuo, Kassadin, Le Blanc

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