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The death of Top lane AP Sejuani

FF1224··3 votes·1,650 views

On live, AP Sej is a viable albeit undervalued pick in the top lane. She is able to be safe or engage with her Q. Her W enables her to apply Frost to a minion wave and her E allows her to kill the minion wave. I will agree that her E allows to kill minion waves too effectively on live, I only need to put 4 points into it and I'll be able to easily get 6 cs per minion wave.

On the PBE, Sejuani's E has been overnerfed though. I understand it has a lower cooldown which will tremendously help AP Sej in teamfights and skirmishes. However it does not change the fact that she will still struggle to waveclear. And this struggle to waveclear will knock AP Sej out of viability in the top lane.

Riot, you need to reconsider your changes, I understand that you want to make Tank Sejuani a viable jungler again, but I believe that is possible without knocking AP Sejuani out of viability in the top lane.

All you need to do is add a little more base damage back to Sejuani's E. Make it 60/100/140/180/220 which is still a nerf, but then maybe compensate the base damge buff by increasing the cooldown on her E by 1 or 2 seconds but keep the scaling down on level up.

AP Sejuani Top is one of the things that I find very fun in playstyle and I wouldn't want it to be knocked out of viability if it doesn't have to be.

Also, this isn't gameplay related but I think you should rename her passive to something other than Frost, because the passive on her E says it applies Frost to the enemy which is actually quite confusing. Just name her passive Ice Armor or something similar.

8 Comments

SmokingPuffin2 votes

I'm not at all convinced that trivial waveclear is necessary for Sejuani to lane effectively.

My read on the proposed changes is that it's a buff for AP Sejuani. You get to apply E's ratio almost twice as often and the new W scaling is like AP Varus good.

FF12241 votes

I'm not at all convinced that trivial waveclear is necessary for Sejuani to lane effectively.

My read on the proposed changes is that it's a buff for AP Sejuani. You get to apply E's ratio almost twice as often and the new W scaling is like AP Varus good.

Yes, it is overall a buff to AP Sejuani's damage output later in the game. But early in the game, where AP Sejuani is already fairly weak in lane, her E is necessary in order to farm up, get those items, and get into late game.

SmokingPuffin2 votes

Yes, it is overall a buff to AP Sejuani's damage output later in the game. But early in the game, where AP Sejuani is already fairly weak in lane, her E is necessary in order to farm up, get those items, and get into late game.

Eh, I think you're giving up on that late game advantage way too soon. You'll have to change your playstyle. You'll probably miss some CS you used to get. So what? Twice as many Es is a huge deal for AP Sejuani, and your tank shredding power is getting a serious buff with the new W AP ratio too.

MattAkhavan2 votes

Sejuani also has really bad mana problems and casting permafrost twice to do a little bit more damage isn't worth it until you get a ton of ap. You can't deny that sejuani late game is now stronger than she was before, but it became much harder to get out of the early and mid game.

waveclear is actually what makes people really strong in lane some examples: ziggs / xerath / sivir / malz all create pressure just by wave clearing.

Kingsgrave1 votes

I don't see how raising the E damage AND lowering the CD can be seen as a nerf. You get to apply it way more often than you could ever apply the old Permafrost. Especially with CDR, which is what Sejuani should be building anyway.

MattAkhavan2 votes

I don't see how raising the E damage AND lowering the CD can be seen as a nerf. You get to apply it way more often than you could ever apply the old Permafrost. Especially with CDR, which is what Sejuani should be building anyway.

You rarely apply permafrost more than 2 times even in an extended teamfight with 40% CDR. Sejuani has really bad mana problems and that's her biggest weakness in lane or in the jungle. The buffs to cdr is a great buff but the hit to the base damage is a little too much. 80 base damage is around a 30% nerf to base damage. This hits hard because sej players don't build a lot of flat ap they build magic pen because she has the high base damge. The damage nerfs to permafrost are nessisary, but they need to be toned down like the OP said.

I have played a lot of sej on pbe since the changes went in.

Duke Anax1 votes

Her E is a bit weaker but when initially but got cooldown, So you can use it twice and actually do more damage.

Also the health scaling change on W makes it scale way harder, so you even have more waveclear than before.

Sire Hippington1 votes

max W, go ap-bruiser, be happy. Seriously, her overall damage out put has been increased, just a bit more dps focused rather than burst(still could burst 3 people within the ult cc with 400 ap on pbe though) Also, W gives great waveclear, u just have a bit more risk, just like most other champs do as u need to stay close the minions for a few sec. overall, seju is buffed at nearly every stage off the game, as maxing W now grants all the damage she needs, reaching a relevant powerspike much earlier in the game.

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