This just made me think (part 2)..can we blame China or Tencent (or both) for how League has become?

King Lego·Nov 30, 2018·36 votes·14,513 views

While the video explains why China loves League, and while League is owned by Tencent, which gave a quick thought from the video. They can pretty much change anything they want, therefore we end up with how League is these days, faster games, damage overload, 1 shot fiestas.

All these are a big cater to the Asian servers. Hell, they even have the privilege to afk matches without any punishments. So fair.

At this point, I wonder. Can we blame China or Tencent (or both) for how League has become? Since it's unknown what Riot's direction of this game is, I think it's safe to say that League of Legends and Riot games are no longer "western".

73 Comments

Zero ShingetsuNov 30, 201826 votes

No. Because in Japan we have plenty of competitive PVP games, and none of them are as horribly balanced towards offense as League is. Asia appreciates a good tank even more than NA does. Riot's just inept.

King LegoNov 30, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-30T12:34:34.134+0000)

No. Because in Japan we have plenty of competitive PVP games, and none of them are as horribly balanced towards offense as League is. Asia appreciates a good tank even more than NA does. Riot's just inept.

For what I see from my point of view, the Asian infamous internet cafes where they have limited time since they are paying money to play and want to play as much matches as possible and so league becomes a fast paced game with stronger snowballing and absurd damage and if the match takes too long they afk without punishment.

What games are you talking about in Japan? Japan is a beast in making games while China is mostly rip off games due to their weird foreign laws.

Zero ShingetsuNov 30, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T13:34:12.332+0000)

For what I see from my point of view, the Asian infamous internet cafes where they have limited time since they are paying money to play and want to play as much matches as possible and so league becomes a fast paced game with stronger snowballing and absurd damage and if the match takes too long they afk without punishment.

What games are you talking about in Japan? Japan is a beast in making games while China is mostly rip off games due to their weird foreign laws.

Final Fantasy XIV has some excellent tank mechanics, for example. I also notice I get a lot of praise when I stream <a certain other MOBA Riot probably won't let me mention> because it allows its tanks to actually tank and is thus fun to watch. There are others, but the last time I typed in Japanese on this forum, I got a warning.

King LegoNov 30, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-11-30T13:44:23.491+0000)

Final Fantasy XIV has some excellent tank mechanics, for example. I also notice I get a lot of praise when I stream <a certain other MOBA Riot probably won't let me mention> because it allows its tanks to actually tank and is thus fun to watch. There are others, but the last time I typed in Japanese on this forum, I got a warning.

Wtf....naming a game from Japan is boards offense now?!? [zombie-brand-mindblown] [zombie-brand-facepalm]

This company man...

IcyPepperDec 1, 20181 votes

I'm pretty sure that was a joke. I've never seen the moderators censor Heroes of the Storm or any other game outside adult stuff.

King LegoDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure that was a joke. I've never seen the moderators censor Heroes of the Storm or any other game outside adult stuff.

HoTS is like the same genre as League though so i think it's allowed to be mentioned.

I don't even know. I lost the will to find out what game from Japan is anyway.

Stars ShaperNov 30, 20185 votes

Does it have to do with storm and a company who expects us to have phones?

chipndip1Nov 30, 20181 votes

Just say the English translation of the name...it isn't hard. I think the forums have a rule about typing in English on here.

Zero ShingetsuNov 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Just say the English translation of the name...it isn't hard. I think the forums have a rule about typing in English on here.

Battlefield of Crisis, Cross Frontier, Warring States Tactics, and Dynasty are all good examples. But those names probably won't mean anything to you because again, Japanese games. :P

Tychusfindlay918Dec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T13:34:12.332+0000)

For what I see from my point of view, the Asian infamous internet cafes where they have limited time since they are paying money to play and want to play as much matches as possible and so league becomes a fast paced game with stronger snowballing and absurd damage and if the match takes too long they afk without punishment.

What games are you talking about in Japan? Japan is a beast in making games while China is mostly rip off games due to their weird foreign laws.

I feel like japan doesnt internet cafe.

King LegoDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I feel like japan doesnt internet cafe.

I'm pretty sure that's more common in China rather than Japan though.

Nausicäa Dec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-30T12:34:34.134+0000)

No. Because in Japan we have plenty of competitive PVP games, and none of them are as horribly balanced towards offense as League is. Asia appreciates a good tank even more than NA does. Riot's just inept.

And the Japanese market and attitudes towards gaming is incredibly different from that of China.

LoL isnt even very popular in Japan so im not sure how you're going suggest that gaming trends in Japan are the same as those in China/Korea ect.

Zero ShingetsuDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nausicäa ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:03:48.630+0000)

And the Japanese market and attitudes towards gaming is incredibly different from that of China.

LoL isnt even very popular in Japan so im not sure how you're going suggest that gaming trends in Japan are the same as those in China/Korea ect.

He didn't say "China/Korea etc." He said Asia. and we have plenty of Chinese players in most of our games, and several Koreans as well. In Japan, the Big Three Asian markets tend to intermingle. I'm practically fluent in Chinese just from playing Warring States Tactics...

AhrisDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-30T12:34:34.134+0000)

No. Because in Japan we have plenty of competitive PVP games, and none of them are as horribly balanced towards offense as League is. Asia appreciates a good tank even more than NA does. Riot's just inept.

That is only Japan and honestly Japan is quite different from the rest of Asia.

Zero ShingetsuDec 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That is only Japan and honestly Japan is quite different from the rest of Asia.

Fair enough, but there are plenty of Chinese and Korean players in Japanese games. Enough that most all of our big name titles have at least a Chinese-speaking server, if not also a Korean-speaking server.

saltranNov 30, 20189 votes

Riot Games has been 93% owned by Tencent since fucking 2011 btw

King LegoNov 30, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Riot Games has been 93% owned by Tencent since fucking 2011 btw

I believe it's 100% now. Though I think they decided to wait before the manipulation of the game started.

Nausicäa Nov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Riot Games has been 93% owned by Tencent since fucking 2011 btw

And how exactly does this prove that Riot isnt catering to the Asian market because of Tencent? This is bad reasoning. Simply because something wasnt the case 7 years ago, doesnt mean it hasnt changed and isnt the case now.

You realize that things in business and life evolve and change and dont remain constant right? China has become increasingly important in terms of player numbers and viewer numbers for Riot and League of Legends. Other games have come out in the West like Overwatch, Fortnite and PUBG that have taken players away from LoL and the MOBA genre is no longer top dog. Meanwhile the game continues to be massive in the Asian market.

Its safe to say that Asia is the MOST important market for LoL at this time. Do you honestly think that if market research determined that Asians like faster paced, higher damage and shorter games that Riot wouldnt modify the game to maximize their profits in the region with their largest player base? Clearly they would not outright acknowledge this, because while the West is less important and they are willing to sacrifice some numbers there they want to alienate as few as possible. Its for this reason they continue to make the game faster paced while remaining silent to the complaints, they are walking a fine line changing the game for the Asian market and at the same time trying to avoid upsetting Western players.

If you honestly think that Riot is more concerned with Western players than making money then you're incredibly naive about business and the ways of the world.

RagnoriusAug 20, 20191 votes

Necro: tldr at the bot

That is my main problem...Riot used to have some sparks of interest in sacrificing some profits for a better experience. Rito (modern Riot) cares little about actually making the game "fun",sure there are some individual workers that love the game...but what is their manager going to say?

"Pashionate" Worker:Hey boss,a few of us thought of making Yasuo a bit less annoying to fight in mid-game Manager:bahahahahahahahhahaha . . . Wait you serious? Son,listen,Yasuo brings in the skin money,we cant afford to cut off that source of revenue. Now get back to work "Somewhat disappointed" Worker:As usual boss.

Tencent just wants money,and that is my problem with most "Chinese" style companies...they have little "pashion" about actually making fun games,they just make skinner box reliant games and watch the money pour in.

They rely on the average Chinese person needing a way to feel different of somewhat powerful in a society where individuals are not that important as the collective.

TL;DR I have a problem with "Chinese" style companies turning League into a money cow from which to pull skin money. They rely on average Chinese people needing a way to feel different or powerful in a society where the individual is less important than the collective.

This is what I see Tencent as.Just a cheap company that is """"corrupting"""" League from a game about quality matches to quick matches where people feel power and want to buy skins. (YAAAAA Yasuo AAAAASSSS Yasuo SSSSSSSUUUUU Yasuo UUUUO)

notMineskiexoNov 30, 20186 votes

Game isn’t balanced too my liking

Let’s blame 60% of the league community because they’re having fun with the game while I’m not.

That’s a big yikes from me

King LegoNov 30, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Game isn’t balanced too my liking

Let’s blame 60% of the league community because they’re having fun with the game while I’m not.

That’s a big yikes from me

1- That's not exactly my point. 2- Yeah so much damage, with no skill is surely what we want right? 3- You do realize League is getting worse right?

UnboundHadesNov 30, 20181 votes

there is no better or worse its your own personal look on things, someone could despise this preseason and quit right away while it might be the best one to another player. if you think that the game doesnt take skill because of "high damage" then just start walking into people as an assassin and see how well that works out for you

King LegoNov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

there is no better or worse its your own personal look on things, someone could despise this preseason and quit right away while it might be the best one to another player. if you think that the game doesnt take skill because of "high damage" then just start walking into people as an assassin and see how well that works out for you

While it's true that one can hate the state of the game and "too much damage", someone would love it because of 1 shot fiestas or some free undeserving LP.

Ah i'm not sure what your point is. With the "too much damage" problem, Assassins can dish out as much as they can receive damage and die.

UnboundHadesNov 30, 20181 votes

you are saying that the game doesnt take any skill anymore because of damage, if that was the case then why cant i just right click someone and have them die without having to put in any other input?

King LegoDec 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

you are saying that the game doesnt take any skill anymore because of damage, if that was the case then why cant i just right click someone and have them die without having to put in any other input?

You can put the blame on new runes.

With the "too much damage" problem going by, how is it skill reliant to even deal?

ModCaptainMårvelousNov 30, 20181 votes

While it's true that one can hate the state of the game and "too much damage", someone would love it because of 1 shot fiestas or some free undeserving LP.

That's really disingenuous. I hate tank metas because I think they're low skill but if you like them, that's your prerogative. That doesn't mean neither of us are necessarily more right than the other one. Still, if we're going to use that argument, then people only like tank metas because they're low interactive and require very little skill to play well in, as you can circumvent a ton of mistakes by just being innately tanky.

People like metas they like. Unless you specifically see people making these sorts of arguments, then by all means share'em. At least for me, I've seen the prevailing discourse around tank metas being that the game is extremely slowly paced and VERY easy to come back into, which to me comes off as mistakes don't matter and early advantage means next-to-nothing. (Something Dunkey made a huge point about in his "I'm done with league" video back in 2015)

King LegoDec 1, 20186 votes

{quoted}

That's really disingenuous. I hate tank metas because I think they're low skill but if you like them, that's your prerogative. That doesn't mean neither of us are necessarily more right than the other one. Still, if we're going to use that argument, then people only like tank metas because they're low interactive and require very little skill to play well in, as you can circumvent a ton of mistakes by just being innately tanky.

People like metas they like. Unless you specifically see people making these sorts of arguments, then by all means share'em. At least for me, I've seen the prevailing discourse around tank metas being that the game is extremely slowly paced and VERY easy to come back into, which to me comes off as mistakes don't matter and early advantage means next-to-nothing. (Something Dunkey made a huge point about in his "I'm done with league" video back in 2015)

It's all a cycle of arguments. 1st guy: This meta is nice! 2nd guy: No this meta is unhealthy!

Which begs the question: Which one is the right and wrong?

This is the loop that i hate about this game. Some toxic plays can be seen healthy by others like Tank Ekko for example.

rtbf36083462Dec 1, 20181 votes

[deleted]

King LegoDec 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

[DELETED CONTENT REMOVED - ULANOPO]

Nobody is serving the other. How about you [REMOVED BY MODERATION - ULANOPO] get off my post, or will stop replying to you and report you?

The choice is yours. We're having a discussion not having serve wars.

JorenciceNov 30, 20182 votes

Western gamers are simply going to have to learn to enjoy the eastern way.

They outnumber us like 15 to 1 so why wouldnt a company listen to them over us.

King LegoNov 30, 201810 votes

{quoted}

Western gamers are simply going to have to learn to enjoy the eastern way.

They outnumber us like 15 to 1 so why wouldnt a company listen to them over us.

What eastern way? This is literally the Asian way, which is damage the other to oblivion and 1 shot in less than 1 second, damage overload and very short games with very strong snowballing (even stronger than before).

Hell, I'm from the Middle East and I'm not enjoying this damage non-sense. I feel like I'm cheating or something.

This is more or less a big cater to the internet cafe in the Asian regions for the sake of faster games which equals to more game in a place with limited time.

rtbf36083462Nov 30, 20182 votes

So you’re mad Riot finally decided to fix one of the biggest and most consistent criticisms of league?

King LegoNov 30, 20187 votes

{quoted}

So you’re mad Riot finally decided to fix one of the biggest and most consistent criticisms of league?

Fix what biggest criticism? We said their is too much damage, they add more damage. We said turrets are paper and snowballing is strong, they make turrets money bags and make snowballing even stronger. They are like thing 1 and 2 from Cat in a Hat. Are these what you mean?

If that's not the "criticism" you're talking about then I'm sorry, I don't know what you're talking about.

rtbf36083462Nov 30, 20183 votes

...

One of the biggest things people criticize about this game is that games take too long and they don’t want to sit through it all.

They’ve been harping about games in League being too long and unleavable for almost a decade now.

King LegoNov 30, 20185 votes

{quoted}

...

One of the biggest things people criticize about this game is that games take too long and they don’t want to sit through it all.

They’ve been harping about games in League being too long and unleavable for almost a decade now.

Late game should be possible, but NOT impossible. League is supposed to be with patience, strategy, team work, and skill. But all we got is a fast pacing game that discourages patience, having Dark Harvest as broken as hell making strategy nothing but troll build, while team work is near impossible anyway, it's already hard to solo carry, and this game is officially little to no skills because of how much damage there is.

If you don't want the match to reach late game, it's your job to not make it reach late game. Not cry to riot and demand faster matches. This even makes many late game champions unviable.

rtbf36083462Nov 30, 20181 votes

There is many of the above:

Strategy: Learning not to get cheesed for no reason in the first 10 minutes of the game because there’s nothing you can do to bail yourself out if you play stupid. Honestly? There’s MORE teamwork now because of how people are more likely to get cheesed early and you have time to react to your teammate getting wrecked early, instead of having a teammate get sniped late game and you immediately lose baron/the game.

Skill: Braindead facerollers have been getting phased out over the past 5 years

Teamwork: working with your team to bust the guy your ADC fed so you don’t auto lose the game

Patience (your definition): playing like complete morons for the first 20 minutes and then stalling for 20 more minutes until some moron gets caught with their pants down and you instalose.

Also, isn’t it super obvious that dark harvest is the one super broken thing (feral flare, cleaver) that Riot quickly erases from the game?

What’s so hard about teamwork now? You keep saying that but with virtually zero evidence.

late game champions unviable forums cry about nerfing Jax for weeks

...you mean you haven’t heard the thousands of outside gamers always saying they don’t play league because the game takes too long? That alone is the single biggest reason why people say they DO. NOT. PLAY. THIS. GAME.

Honestly? It’s better for games to be shorter so there’s no more annoying ass turtle strategies that do nothing but pad out games with useless, stale time and increase the chance of someone going AFK and ruining the game. I really don’t miss the days when teams did nothing but camp out at inhib turrets and spend half the game split pushing.

King LegoDec 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

There is many of the above:

Strategy: Learning not to get cheesed for no reason in the first 10 minutes of the game because there’s nothing you can do to bail yourself out if you play stupid. Honestly? There’s MORE teamwork now because of how people are more likely to get cheesed early and you have time to react to your teammate getting wrecked early, instead of having a teammate get sniped late game and you immediately lose baron/the game.

Skill: Braindead facerollers have been getting phased out over the past 5 years

Teamwork: working with your team to bust the guy your ADC fed so you don’t auto lose the game

Patience (your definition): playing like complete morons for the first 20 minutes and then stalling for 20 more minutes until some moron gets caught with their pants down and you instalose.

Also, isn’t it super obvious that dark harvest is the one super broken thing (feral flare, cleaver) that Riot quickly erases from the game?

What’s so hard about teamwork now? You keep saying that but with virtually zero evidence.

...you mean you haven’t heard the thousands of outside gamers always saying they don’t play league because the game takes too long? That alone is the single biggest reason why people say they DO. NOT. PLAY. THIS. GAME.

Honestly? It’s better for games to be shorter so there’s no more annoying ass turtle strategies that do nothing but pad out games with useless, stale time and increase the chance of someone going AFK and ruining the game. I really don’t miss the days when teams did nothing but camp out at inhib turrets and spend half the game split pushing.

"you mean you haven’t heard the thousands of outside gamers always saying they don’t play league because the game takes too long? That alone is the single biggest reason why people say they DO. NOT. PLAY. THIS. GAME.

Fine then. Then the late game champions are nothing more but troll picks then. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Here's the glimpse of bias from me. I'm a Velkoz main, and my squid is strongest in the late game where i feel most useful, dangerous, and powerful. What about those players who main those late game champions eh? Screw them right? Should be perma banned for picking late game champions because some impatient kids want this game to end in under 20 minutes?

rtbf36083462Dec 1, 20181 votes

...Vel'Koz? You mean the champ that has >50% WR on many different sources? On both of his roles?

Oh, and according to op.gg:

Kassadin has both >53% wr and 11% pr.

Why on earth do you think late champs are "nothing but troll picks" when all the evidence is slapping your shit?

Too stupid to understand your champ has decent winrates all around?

Blame China

[slayer-jinx-wink]

King LegoDec 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

...Vel'Koz? You mean the champ that has >50% WR on many different sources? On both of his roles?

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Velkoz/ (53% WTF)

http://na.op.gg/champion/velkoz/statistics/mid

https://champion.gg/champion/Velkoz/Middle

Oh, and according to op.gg:

Kassadin has both >53% wr and 11% pr.

Why on earth do you think late champs are "nothing but troll picks" when all the evidence is slapping your shit?

Too stupid to understand your champ has decent winrates all around?

Blame China

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Vel'Koz support.

I play that squid on mid lane because mages support is an abomination.

He's a decent champion and well balanced, but isn't exactly much popular except support.

I know my champion well enough on how he works. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

rtbf36083462Dec 1, 20181 votes

...both his supp and mid wr are fine.

What's your point? Are you just mad he's not broken?

King LegoDec 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

...both his supp and mid wr are fine.

What's your point? Are you just mad he's not broken?

If i'm not mistaken, the support Vel'Koz is more popular than mid.

No I don't want my champion to be broken. He's already well balanced enough that Riot will barely touch him. But seeing him popular on support part worries me a bit on nerfing and gutting him.

They already buffed his Q AP ratio from 0.6 to 0.8 which was a mistake.

rtbf36083462Dec 1, 20181 votes

[deleted]

King LegoDec 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

iT worRIeS mE A biT oN nerFInG hIM aNd GutTTInG hIM.

Are you an actual idiot? Did you just say that late game champs are bad/troll picks in a meta where games are shorter (like now)?

And THEN say that you're worried your late game "troll pick" champion is going to get nerfed and gutted?

You inbred clown, do you HEAR yourself? Did you think straight for more than 2 seconds?

To how i understand, if late game is hard to impossible to reach then what's the point of playing late game champions? The Bruisers bot lane is a good example of that of what happened. No, i'm saying that since my champion is already well balanced, i'm worried that they can make any buffs or nerfs that would either make him popular (or more at least) or probably unviable. That's my concern, not yours.

I'm pretty sure i thought properly of what i said. Maybe you can't comprehend on what my point is so you call me an "inbred clown" which to be honest, is quite tempting for me to report you.

DearPearDec 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T03:21:49.115+0000)

If i'm not mistaken, the support Vel'Koz is more popular than mid.

No I don't want my champion to be broken. He's already well balanced enough that Riot will barely touch him. But seeing him popular on support part worries me a bit on nerfing and gutting him.

They already buffed his Q AP ratio from 0.6 to 0.8 which was a mistake.

All vel'koz realistically bring is huge damages. Considering your OP and beliefs, why would you be afraid they'd nerf vel'koz?

DearPearDec 1, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAI1AZQE,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-01T19:21:27.750+0000)

2 things about the nerf.

1- Actual proper nerfs that would still keep Vel'Koz strong but not broken. 2- Overkill nerfs that would make him unviable.

I'm mostly worried about the 2nd point.

Totally missing my point.

You claim that Riot wants higher damages to catter to the chinese players. Vel'koz does damage. Why would they nerf them. Not "how" but "why". You're not making sense there.

3TWarriorDec 1, 20181 votes

that was back when every game could easily last 40 minutes to an hour and even more. Most people like myself only wanted the game to end in under an hour so that break times and etc didn't overlap with class times

rtbf36083462Dec 1, 20181 votes

Yeah. Problem solved, TYVM.

I don't get it, do you people LIKE mindless stalling time and cowardly turtling?

3TWarriorDec 2, 20181 votes

was this comment directed at me?

I said I preferred match times under an hour and truthfully I prefer the average of between 30 and 40

what I did not like, just like most other people at the time, was that the game times were ALL PUSHING AN HOUR OR MORE; even aram could take 45 minutes at the time... I don't know what changed at the time, but it did