Why has Riot allowed this?

Mistress Nyx·Jan 27, 2018·2 votes·426 views

Why have you allowed a meta where you can build straight tank, yet deal more than a adc? Perfect example.

Ornn.

He builds no damage. Nothing. Yet deals so much damage he can three shot a lesser tank. Like Thresh.

I miss the meta that made sense.

Tanks = Holy shit I can't kill this bastard, but at least he doesn't do damage. Marksmen = Holy shit you deal a ton, but at least you aren't tanky. Assassins = Get in, mess 'em up, get out; cc screws me harder than Riot Games to my wallet when they release a new Ultimate Skin. Mages = Holy shit you deal a ton, but at least you aren't too tanky. Supports = Healer? Build a ! Tank? Welp no damage from him! Mage? Gotta love that !

Now it's useless. Ornn, CC out the ass. Tanky as hell and deals more in a game than my fed Marksmen. Building full tank shred doesn't even help anymore. It's awful dealing with something that you can't build or play against. There lacks a balance anymore. It feels like unless you are a one shot mage, AD Burst, or tank you aren't of value anymore.

I feel like the nerf to the healing supports really broke it too.

Soraka, Janna, Sona. They are so easily countered now that they lack any value anymore. The enemy builds one item and we become useless.

The items we were given gave us a chance to still have some use beyond warding and clearing after that item was built. Sure not as strong, but still it was bearable.

I truly would like an answer. From a legitimate Riot member. Why? What is the purpose of making champs this way?

15 Comments

XavanicJan 27, 20181 votes

Tanks needed damage, otherwise theres no reason for the adc to kite, ornn however is a poor example, as hes in a tier all of his own, hes a case of riot overbuffing a champion, he was already incredibly strong on release, then they buffed his damage and made his ult easier to hit, now hes fucking op, like, even the word tank means damage, what do military tanks do, they hit with an incredible amount of power and are heavily armoured, the thing is, their slow moving, which most tanks in league are, but point is, dont ask for tanks to do reduced dmg, mao and co are fine, ornn is overtuned though due to his lack of a real passive, so dont compare him to other tanks

Master NoctJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tanks needed damage, otherwise theres no reason for the adc to kite, ornn however is a poor example, as hes in a tier all of his own, hes a case of riot overbuffing a champion, he was already incredibly strong on release, then they buffed his damage and made his ult easier to hit, now hes fucking op, like, even the word tank means damage, what do military tanks do, they hit with an incredible amount of power and are heavily armoured, the thing is, their slow moving, which most tanks in league are, but point is, dont ask for tanks to do reduced dmg, mao and co are fine, ornn is overtuned though due to his lack of a real passive, so dont compare him to other tanks

Thing is tanks didn't need damage, they're supposed to keep the adc's from focusing backlines, that's what assassins are for. Tanks should be intended to have crowd control to handle the adc's, not have so much damage they might as well be marksman on their own, just a lot harder to kill. at that point you might as well go with a full tank comp that handles both AD and AP, like Nasus/Darius top, Mao/Leo supp, Sion bot, Shen/Malph mid, and Sej/Shyv jg. If you saw a pattern, you can build any of these tank and you'd still demolish in lane, since you can put out so much damage and take so little, plus wait, they all have some form of cc!

XavanicJan 27, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Noct,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0PJbm8m,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-27T08:43:44.695+0000)

Thing is tanks didn't need damage, they're supposed to keep the adc's from focusing backlines, that's what assassins are for. Tanks should be intended to have crowd control to handle the adc's, not have so much damage they might as well be marksman on their own, just a lot harder to kill. at that point you might as well go with a full tank comp that handles both AD and AP, like Nasus/Darius top, Mao/Leo supp, Sion bot, Shen/Malph mid, and Sej/Shyv jg. If you saw a pattern, you can build any of these tank and you'd still demolish in lane, since you can put out so much damage and take so little, plus wait, they all have some form of cc!

Tanks are slow and clunky, meaning if your good you can kite them, back in the day, an adc would build a BT and then just facetank the tank because they didnt do enough damage, no matter what happens with the meta, tanks should NEVER be stripped of damage, hell in alot of other games tanks have been given lots of damage esp as of late

Mistress NyxJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tanks are slow and clunky, meaning if your good you can kite them, back in the day, an adc would build a BT and then just facetank the tank because they didnt do enough damage, no matter what happens with the meta, tanks should NEVER be stripped of damage, hell in alot of other games tanks have been given lots of damage esp as of late

Not stripped, but managed better. Tanks should not be 1v1ing the Marksmen anyway. They are for team fights. They can have some damage, that is a given, but not so much that a Galio can build full tank and both cc and demolish the enemy marksmen. As someone who can kite like a boss, tanks now are not slow... they MOVE and have low CD on gap closing abilities and cc.

Leona Amumu DrMundo Galio Garen Gragas Malphite Maokai Nautilus Nunu Ornn Poppy Rammus Shen Singed Sion TahmKench Taric Volibear Warwick Udyr Zac

All of these champs can build full tank, deal tons and have low CD. High cc and gap closing abilities that make kiting in this meta, impossible and with all of them now taking item 3800 They quite literally show up with 700 MS and then demolish you before you can do anything.

Taking Qss doesn't really have that great of an effect on champs that can just cc you right after you use it. They need damage reduced. Not removed, and higher CD on cc so they can't perma lock down someone with no counter-play against it. I LOVE tanks. I was a main for years. They are amazing, but even I can see they need a nerf.

Master NoctJan 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Tanks are slow and clunky, meaning if your good you can kite them, back in the day, an adc would build a BT and then just facetank the tank because they didnt do enough damage, no matter what happens with the meta, tanks should NEVER be stripped of damage, hell in alot of other games tanks have been given lots of damage esp as of late

I don't know about that, since I've had ADC's build both lethality and armor pen, and have issues dealing with tanks, considering some tanks just build lethality and crit and they kill you harder than you think they can (case in point, Garen, lol). And ADC's shouldn't be fully focusing the tank in any case, if they have a front liner, so you know.

PurgëJan 27, 20181 votes

i like how u mentioend every class in the game but forget about bruisers it says alot lel

Master NoctJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i like how u mentioend every class in the game but forget about bruisers it says alot lel

Don't bruisers fall in tank category but are a sub-category of their own? Like Wardens and Vanguards are? Tanks are just a generalization of the class.

PurgëJan 27, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Master Noct,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=b0PJbm8m,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-01-27T08:39:20.916+0000)

Don't bruisers fall in tank category but are a sub-category of their own? Like Wardens and Vanguards are? Tanks are just a generalization of the class.

lol hell no boy dont u ever place bruiser with those braindead meat tanks , bruisers fall into the category of fighters , tanks have Vanguards and stuff

Master NoctJan 28, 20181 votes

{quoted}

lol hell no boy dont u ever place bruiser with those braindead meat tanks , bruisers fall into the category of fighters , tanks have Vanguards and stuff

Bruiser itself is not a subclass. Under tanks there's Wardens and Vanguards. Under Fighters there's Juggernauts and Divers.

Mistress NyxJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

i like how u mentioend every class in the game but forget about bruisers it says alot lel

Bruisers feel balanced to me. Slightly tanky. Slightly DMG. They have a Yin/Yang based on your build with them.

buPPDrmXEOJan 27, 20181 votes

Ornn is an useless non-champion. He has 46% win rate on top lane a lane that has 0 influence on the outcome of the game. So having such a shitty win rate in a non-factor lane means he's trash.

XavanicJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ornn is an useless non-champion. He has 46% win rate on top lane a lane that has 0 influence on the outcome of the game. So having such a shitty win rate in a non-factor lane means he's trash.

I understand top lane isnt in the best spot, but i have single handedly carried the game while playing this lane multiple times lately, it def needs to see some more influence but still, and ornn can also be played as a jungler/support, and his ult can be gamechanging, just because a champ doesnt have a high win-rate doesn't mean their weak, it just means they aren't meta (unless their like azir and kalista were. then they need buffs) once the meta shifts to one ornn can thrive in, he will hit 54% winrate easily

ZephyrDrakeJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I understand top lane isnt in the best spot, but i have single handedly carried the game while playing this lane multiple times lately, it def needs to see some more influence but still, and ornn can also be played as a jungler/support, and his ult can be gamechanging, just because a champ doesnt have a high win-rate doesn't mean their weak, it just means they aren't meta (unless their like azir and kalista were. then they need buffs) once the meta shifts to one ornn can thrive in, he will hit 54% winrate easily

yeah it's not like Orn got that winrate due to nerf after nerf after nerf because he was too strong in the top lane... it's also why he is constantly picked in pro play... because he is not a meta champion...

SEKAIJan 27, 20181 votes

Were you here for Season2's "meta golem" meta?

Boy, that was the REAL tank meta there (though by that I mean both tanks and bruisers, given they both abused the "meta golem" builds quite hard). The current stuff ain't holding a candle up to that.

It is true that tanks are overbuffed compared to bruisers. But overbuffed in the grand scheme of things? Nah. I don't agree tbh.

Mistress NyxJan 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Were you here for Season2's "meta golem" meta?

Boy, that was the REAL tank meta there (though by that I mean both tanks and bruisers, given they both abused the "meta golem" builds quite hard). The current stuff ain't holding a candle up to that.

It is true that tanks are overbuffed compared to bruisers. But overbuffed in the grand scheme of things? Nah. I don't agree tbh.

I have been here since the BETA. I went through the Garen ADC and Annie top meta. The tank Karthus meta. The tank meta was... we don't talk about the tank meta back then... it was disgusting. And I say that as one of the tank mains.