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QSS should have more buildable pathways other than ONLY AD.

V01D33L··13 votes·3,316 views

The counter to Malzahar Warwick has always been to rush a QSS item 3140 but this item is AD-Exclusive. It builds ONLY into item 3139 Merc. This basically means if you're an AP champion you're forced to buy this QSS which'll put you behind by a solid 1300g while Warwick and Malz continue their normal build otherwise.

If we made an AP-Version of QSS then I know people would build both the AP QSS and the current QSS which would be broken. This can be made Unique Passive which if both items are purchase only 1 Active is proc'd and both will consequently go on CD.

This is why I'm asking why doesn't QSS build into AP or even Tank/Defensive item? Kinda like how item 3102 item 3512 item 3026 are all neutral defensive stats. They don't build into AP or AD, they're usable by BOTH mages and AD.

Also does summoner 1 not stop Suppression? Its whole purpose is to negate cheesy CC's like Suppression.

Also why does QSS not work on certain champion's ulties like Zed or Fizz?

Even Doublelift agreed a while back that nerfing what QSS can only work on greatly impacted the overall skill-ceiling of the game.

Aside from Cleanse being useless against Suppression cheese, I would just like for QSS to have more buildable pathways aside from just being AD-Exclusive into Mercurial Sword. Really not asking for much. Mages are forced to go 1300g behind early game because of this item being AD-Exclusive and lategame we're forced to either sell the QSS for 6th item or have QSS and lack 1 solid mage item.

97 Comments

LankPants14 votes

I disagree, QSS should have no buildpaths and be a stand alone item. There should be a real tradeoff for wanting to ignore a CC.

Lauchmelder1 votes

That I could agree with.

V01D33L1 votes

I would be fine with it being a stand alone item tbh.

AlienPrimate3 votes

A thought I had is to give boots various actives. Instead of the old enchantments for boots, introduce actives to boots like the qss and remove mercurial scymitar. Other options could be things like a short movement speed buff, a small shield like locket for only the user, and a short lasting buff/debuff for minions.

V01D33L1 votes

I would be happy with QSS boots. That would be amazing against Malz/Warwick suppressions.

AlienPrimate1 votes

It could be problematic for champions like malz, ww, rammus, and Galio though because having an upgrade on boots that doesn't cost an item slot to completely shut down their kit might not be fair to those champions. It does suck to get suppressed or taunted but there is a price they pay to have those abilities. Rammus's whole kit relies on his taunt, ww and malz can be cc'd out of it and they are single target so they have an ult that could be useless against a coordinated team, and Galio has a steep cooldown and can be cc'd out of his ult. After some thought from the other side of this discussion, maybe qss on boots would be a bad idea.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

I agree, like it was back in S2.

Although it should be a bit more expensive with a bit more stats, then.

LankPants1 votes

I'm cool with it being a big MR item. Something like 50 seems fair, with a cost of around 1.8K.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/QSS

In late S2, it had 48 MR for 1640 gold, plus the active. The active was also more powerful at that time.

LankPants1 votes

Stats are worth more gold now than they were in season 2. Season 2 GA also gave 68 armour and 38 MR for 2.4K for example.

Meep Man1 votes

This is another option. Perhaps making it build out of Aegis (item 3105), slightly increasing the cost, and having it only provide 30 of each resistance would be a neat idea.

Arya Riven5 votes

Also in that case can Riven get an AD Zonya's?

V01D33L2 votes

She already has 4 gapclosers. Why in gods name would she need an AD Zhonya?

umbraˉ6 votes

Because you're getting an AP QSS with this change?

V01D33L3 votes

Doesn't have to be AP tbh. I mentioned in my post above that it can be a neutral stat item similar to item 3026 item 3102 item 3512 where its neither AP or AD.

You clearly skipped over it.

Rip Rengo 20162 votes

So a tank item with QSS or Zhonyas is okay too xD Sounds fair.. hahaha

V01D33L2 votes

Neutral stat items can be bought by ALL champions. QSS functions as the ONLY countermeasure to Suppression. Why shouldnt it be buildable by all champions who need to negate Suppression?

Rip Rengo 20162 votes

Technically item 3140 item 3139 can be bought by all champions.

V01D33L2 votes

A mage will not benefit from building QSS into item 3139 though.

Let me make it a bit more clear for you:

item 3102 : FULLY BUILT Neutral Item.

Stats: MR (Beneficial to ALL champions) Health (Beneficial to ALL champions)

item 3026 :FULLY BUILT Neutral Item Stats: MR ( Beneficial to ALL champions) Armor ( Beneficial to ALL champions)

item 3139 : FULLY BUILT AD Item Stats: Magic Resist (Beneficial to ALL champions) Attack Damage( Beneficial to ONLY AD Champions)

Do you see where I'm getting at?

I can build item 3140 but by endgame I'm either forced to keep this item and not be able to build it into a fully upgraded item like item 3139 for mages, OR I can sell it and buy a 6th mage item but be completely vulnerable to suppressions and potentially die and throw the entire game from a 70 second respawn timer.

I mean seriously what good will it do for a mage to have +75 AD?

Rip Rengo 20162 votes

I think you are missing the bigger picture... Riot intentionally has it set up for an AD item.. As someone has mentioned before, if we were to make items equal for both classes, you'd see AD champions with zhonyas.

V01D33L1 votes

Why should an anti-suppression be exclusive to only AD champions?

We also get suppressed, not just AD champions exclusively.

Rip Rengo 20163 votes

Why do ap champions get invulnerability?

V01D33L1 votes

Invulnerability AND stasis. It's like almost detrimental to pop zhonyas because its flashy and the whole enemy team notices and waits for it to expire so they can CC-lock you.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

{quoted}

Invulnerability AND stasis. It's like almost detrimental to pop zhonyas because its flashy and the whole enemy team notices and waits for it to expire so they can CC-lock you.

Here is a tip. Stop using Zhonya's in terrible scenarios.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

You act like players don't have the ability to change a good scenario into a terrible one with proper team-zoning tactics.

Stopped reading.

You are basically trying to downplay the power of zhonyas via peoples potential to be able to outplay you. Please stop. it's honestly insulting towards everyone's intelligent at this point.

By the same token, I can say, "you can't act like people can't play around Your QSS since they can just CC you right away after you use it."

It's stupid.

If you're planning on being a bigot do it elsewhere please. You're wasting everyone time.

Oh the irony.

MissingKayo2 votes

If you used Zhonya's and died afterwards, you used it at a bad time. It is one of the best items in the game. That is an irrefutable fact.

Rip Rengo 20162 votes

You think Zhonyas is a bad item for THAT reason? Then i guess GA is shit too then huh.

Rip Rengo 20161 votes

I'm not playing dumb, you just have a dumb argument.

umbraˉ2 votes

[deleted]

Lauchmelder5 votes

Wait. You're saying that a component is comparable to a finished item?

It shouldn't be, and ADs have 2 of those components. Hexdrinker is the insane offender. QSS I can life with. Hexdrinker having the Lifeline passive has to change. It's too strong for a 1300 gold item.

V01D33L3 votes

No one said item 3139 would be deleted. I was suggesting that item 3140 have more buildable pathways so that ALL champions can use it. Mages fall behind by 1300g when they buy item 3140 JUST to survive a Warwick Malzahar flash R Suppression. We're forced to start 1300g behind from our usual build while they continue on with their normal builds. By 6th item we're forced to either sell this item for a solid mage item or suffer by keeping it and being 1 solid mage item behind.

It doesn't have to be AP QSS. I mentioned in my post it can build into neutral stats similar to item 3102 item 3026 item 3512 which aren't affiliated with either AD or AP and can be benefited by ALL champions to the fullest extent upon building it.

OctoberIV1 votes

I think the point he is trying to get across is that if QSS is gonna be available to AP champions without having to go AD then Zhonya's active needs to be available to AD champions without having to go AP.

Danjeng2 votes

With that reasoning, you can argue that an AP QSS isn't needed.

"He already does so much burst damage. Why in gods name would he need an AP QSS?"

Think this one through.

V01D33L1 votes

Riven can build item 3140 into item 3139 though. She's AD.

Also no I didn't say burst damage, I said 4 gap closers if you read carefully. The idea isn't damage, it's mobility/evasiveness related.

Danjeng2 votes

I think you do not understand. I am not sure if you are trolling. I am giving an example using your reasoning on a hypothetical mage and AP QSS.

Zhonya's does its job just fine, I really do not mind that I don't build QSS.

OctoberIV5 votes

{quoted}

Also does summoner 1 not stop Suppression? Its whole purpose is to negate cheesy CC's like Suppression.

So champions that rely on suppressing don't literally become them most useless champs in the game.

Also why does QSS not work on certain champion's ulties like Zed or Fizz?

Because the balance of a champion completely revolving around a 1300 g item is extremely unhealthy.

Even Doublelift agreed a while back that nerfing what QSS can only work on greatly impacted the overall skill-ceiling of the game.

He's a shitter.

ChaddyFantome4 votes

Call me when they make an AD version of item 3157 . AD and AP have their pros and cons. This is just one of them.

V01D33L2 votes

item 3157 doesn't stop suppression. Also it's a double-edge item similar to item 3026 where if your team abandons you or the team forces them away from you while your active comes off, it's detrimental instead of life saving.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

{quoted}

item 3157 doesn't stop suppression.

It prevents you from being suppressed tho. Int he case of Warwick, it basically makes him wiff the entire spell.

That said, you are missing my point. ADs have convenient access to an item that removes CC. APs have easier access to a literal invincibility button.

These are pros and cons of beign AP and AD. The two need not be homogenized.

Also it's a double-edge item similar to item 3026 where if your team abandons you or the team forces them away from you while your active comes off, it's detrimental instead of life saving.

  • in this post, poor use of an active results in horrible situations and outcomes.

yes, im aware.

Touch My Box5 votes

{quoted}

Call me when they make an AD version of item 3157 . AD and AP have their pros and cons. This is just one of them.

item 3156

Call me when they make an AP version of item 3814 or spellvamp.

ChaddyFantome4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=auOWEFFZ,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-01-28T02:13:34.239+0000)

item 3156

  • My face when people still genuinely and ironically think Maw is a goddamn Zhonyas.

I mean christ! In what universe is a magic damage shield the same as a goddamn invincibility button?

Call me when they make an AP version of item 3814.

Edge of Night isn't even that great an item. And item 3102 exists if you want a Spellshield and MR to counter APs.

Lauchmelder3 votes

I'm fine if they give ADs Maw.

But remove the goddamn passive from Hexdrinker or add the Zhonyas passive to Seekers Armguards.

When APs buy Seekers: "Oh look, I need 1 more autoattack and he still needs to stack it."

When ADs buy Hexdrinker: "Well guys, I can't kill him any more, and he doesn't even need to do anything for it."

ChaddyFantome3 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=auOWEFFZ,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T02:22:16.532+0000)

I'm fine if they give ADs Maw.

But remove the goddamn passive from Hexdrinker or add the Zhonyas passive to Seekers Armguards.

When APs buy Seekers: "Oh look, I need 1 more autoattack and he still needs to stack it."

When ADs buy Hexdrinker: "Well guys, I can't kill him any more, and he doesn't even need to do anything for it."

Stacking seekers stats is not this thing you will never do and Lifeline will only stop you from getting a kill if you all in at an HP threshold you would expect then to die as opposed to taking the Lifeline into account, which is really no different than the stats Seekers provides in the same type of regard.

The sheer total stats item 3191 provides is actually much more efficient than the stats item 3155 provides. As an AP midlaner, you don't even need to kill the enemy AD anyway. u just need to farm and become powerful for midgame.

Hexdrinker is more of a crutch item you get in a losing lane or matchup, as I find it puts your build back a lot more than seekers into Zhonyas does.

Zhonyas active is useful in all kinds of situations and is useful at all point sin the game. Maw is only really useful for laning against the AP when you are in an unfavorable matchup.

The trick to playing around lifeline is simply to remember it exists and count your damage accordingly. it only blocks magic damage, and is just basically health that is ignored by physical damage.

The ply around for Zhonyas doesn't exist outside of hoping your team can get them to burn the active for you so you can captilise.

I will never take the notion that Maw is even remotely comparable to Zhonyas seriously. Its just ridiculous.

You might as well claim that Kassadins Q + passive is as powerful as Zhonyas at that point.

Lauchmelder3 votes

What did I expect honestly? Boards is filled with an AD bias.

Hexdrinker is too cheap for making an AD laner WITH A BRAIN pretty much unkillable. Make it cheaper if you want and remove Lifeline, or give it a different passive. Lifeline has to go.

Also, Maw is not only built in unfavorable matchups. If you're winning you build it to become completely unkillable no matter what.

ChaddyFantome2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MadKnife IV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=auOWEFFZ,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-28T02:45:19.383+0000)

What did I expect honestly? Boards is filled with an AD bias.

Hexdrinker is too cheap for making an AD laner WITH A BRAIN pretty much unkillable. Make it cheaper if you want and remove Lifeline, or give it a different passive. Lifeline has to go.

Also, Maw is not only built in unfavorable matchups. If you're winning you build it to become completely unkillable no matter what.

Considering Im a midlane mage and AP enchanter support main, this only speaks of the irony of just how bias against AD and bias towards AP you actuallyare.

I don't know what i was thinking trying to have any reasonable discussion with a guy that thinks a stupid magic shield is comparable to a literal invincibility button, and has the audacity to claim that just because he is boosted enough to press it every time he is low AP and caught out , basically using it for no reason other than to waste everyone's time, it makes it a bad active. it's looney ad I quite frankly don't have the time for that.

Merely having Zhonyas in your inventory basically hard counters every AD assassin in the game. it is so potent that I have even build it on ADC just to screw Over Zeds.

_But no. The extra 250 HP that was blocked from Lifeline daring to deny you a kill is far more op. Yes makes sense. _ /sarcasm.

V01D33L3 votes

I know right? item 3191 doesn't even offer a 90-second cooldown Automatic shield-proc which ALSO scales gets multiplied by the MR on the item + the players MR from runes/masteries, compared to item 3155 . Also yes, you guys have item 3814 which stacks with item 3102 .

Also item 3191 has to be farmed up to 30 cs to be fully at effect, vs item 3155 already comes at optimal stats upon purchase.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

{quoted}

I know right? item 3191 doesn't even offer a 90-second cooldown Automatic shield-proc which ALSO scales gets multiplied by the MR on the item + the players MR from runes/masteries, compared to item 3155 . Also yes, you guys have item 3814 which stacks with item 3102 .

Also item 3191 has to be farmed up to 30 cs to be fully at effect, vs item 3155 already comes at optimal stats upon purchase.

and item 3156 doesn give you an invincibility button.

Pros and cons.

Personally, if they ever made a damn AD version of Zhonyas I promise you I would never build item 3156 again over it.

And I doubt you'd build an AD Maw over Zhonyas either.

umbraˉ3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Not Shacko,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=auOWEFFZ,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-01-28T02:13:34.239+0000)

Call me when they make an AP version of item 3814.

Lmfao not until we gut void staff and magic pen just like we did with AD's.

Rebonack2 votes

An AP QSS item would be rushed in quite a few AP vs AP matchups. Not only do you invalidate a large part of your foe's damage with the MR, but you can flat-out remove the threat of their CC as well. If this item were created then champs like Liss would basically never see play again.

It's the same reason why there's no AD/Armor item.

Meep Man2 votes

I would like a Tank one for Vanguards and Juggernauts personally. AP doesn't really need it to be honest. Having it AND Zhonya's would make killing an AP champion WAY too hard, especially if they have mobility.

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