I had a game where Vi and Malphite were duo'ing and they admitted in the chat they were going to camp me. I tried my best but all they did all game was both Flash + R me. This is not how the game was intended to be played. Honestly, this shouldn't be a thing. It promotes toxicity and they knew well what they were trying to achieve by doing that.
Too Ton8 votesSTRATEGY... comps are picked for a reason. Ex: Orianna, malphite, vi, braum = ultimate lockdown and it's called wombo combo comp. Switch ori for yasuo if you want.
V01D33L2 votesBut in silver? I mean I had no chance of surviving even with flash + zhonya... Vi ulti homes in on you even when you flash.
Aptest3 votesAnd then they have nothing to kill Twitch and eve with so he mows them down.... ...or at least that would have been the case, if you did not choose to build like a wet tissue.
V01D33L1 votesI mean I was going to build defensive but not enough time. Game ended too quickly because of that cheese combo.
Aptest6 votesthat deathcap sure does have awesome defensive stats on it. void staff is also uber powerful for surviving gang-bangs.
V01D33L1 votesI mean I could've rushed Zhonya that's true. Even then though, I can't just build 100% defensive mid. I have to also contribute damage.
Aptest4 votesYou can build 100% defensive mid with a rod of ages. You have to adapt to the circumstances of the game and free yourself from the mindset of "Im gonna be the damage dealer for the team".
you burning all both initiation spells of two players on the other team and clustering them up nicely on your location while your team has 2 big AOE damage dealers and enough AOE CC to keep them two mooks pinned will Pantheon drops on them like a Russian ICBM? all win.
Build like a T72 next time and make putin proud.
V01D33L1 votesI'll try it lol
Aptest5 votesoh, you thought enemy team would let you stack 50 minutes in peace and come get you AFTER you can 1-shot everybody on their team? Is that how the game is intended to be played? point and click instakill?
Veigar is like Yasuo and Vayne. You camp the shit out of them until they RQ. or else you pay the price. that's not even complicated strategy everybody knows that.
V01D33L1 votesI mean I expected camping but, I was ALSO expecting a countermeasure. I played extremely safe and warded. I couldn't survive the Flash Vi ulti + Malph flash ulti combo. Her ulti homes in on you even after you flash out.
Aptest3 votesThe countermeasures are building a warmog, then a banshees veil, then a randuin's omen. and then being under your tower and trolololing them around your tower after they burn their ults and finishing with caging them inside tower range.
Also your team getting objectives elsewhere.
EDIT: i forgot rod of ages first item.
V01D33L2 votesI cant buy all those as a midlane Veigar though :\
TequilaZombie2 votesIf you only had a way to get AP without building it and some really good base damage with missing health damage!
OHH WAIT!
V01D33L1 votesThat implies you can actually farm it up without being blown up by a flash vi ulti +flash malph ult combo the moment you walk into any lane because they specifically follow you.
TequilaZombie2 votesIf only you could buy tanky to avoid dying so easily!
OHH WAIT!
V01D33L1 votesYour arguement doesn't make sense. It's like telling an ADC to build Banshees and Guardian Angel 1rst items. Sure they'll survive but they'll be completely useless because now they're 1 Damage item behind the enemy for all phases of the game until 40mins+ when everyone is fullbuild. At some point in the game you have to decide on having both defensive AND offensive. What good would it be to build a purely defensive veigar midlane? What purpose or role would it even serve to the teamcomp?
TequilaZombie3 votesMages have a crapload of options when it comes to defense.
Rushing a 
would help.
Going for 
or 
would also be nice.
When it comes to building defensively, mages have far more options than ADCs.
A tanky Veigar can still dish out some pretty significant damage, even if you start the game with a purely defensive item such as a 
and stay one damage item behind. Not to mention that living champions deal more damage than dead champions (unless you're 
)
Not to mention that if both Vi and Malph were ulting you the whole time and you managed to survive it, you'd be making 2 of their champions completely useless, as they are basicly ult bots.
V01D33L1 votesI've played this game for 7 years now and I have yet to see one person build Warmog in the midlane. I was actually planning on buying Zhonyas after my VoidStaff but the game ended too soon. If I went RoA first I have no Armor, Magic Resist or CDR. If I went Rylais, the slow got insanely nerfed recently it's better for supports now because of it being cheaper and it's not going to stop Merc Treads tenacity, also has no Mana Regen, CDR, Armor, or Magic Resist. Zhonya's would've probably been the ideal pick but I didn't get it immediately because Malphite was building glasscannon midlane and he's purely Magic Damage source.
I mean you have to understand that these items are great for survivability but Veigar is very Mana Hungry early game. I usually have to buy Morellos because it has heal reduction, 20% cdr, AP, and insane mana regen. I took Deathcap because let's be real, it's literally meant for Veigar's Passive.
TequilaZombie1 votes
Your mana issues are mostly solved and you can now survive the endless dives.
Buying Warmogs was an extreme example, but RoA would have been a possibly better purchase than Morello's. Specially because Malph has no healing to be denied (so you didn't had to rush it) and Lost Chapter would have been more than enough to make you able to farm in lane.
If you are up against two hard engage champions with some pretty decent burst damage you shouldn't expect to buy your cookie cutter damage build and do well, you gotta adapt.
Zen Ineth2 votesWell, it's not that he shouldn't be picked, it's that those players should be reprimanded somehow.
Playing with the intent to ruin someone's enjoyment of the game/match is quite toxic, but it's damned difficult to ascertain after the fact that that was their intention.
V01D33L1 votesThat's the thing like, they were actually being toxic in game because of being successful at towerdiving with both Flash + R vi and malph combo. I legitimately couldn't farm or play. I tried warding and moving to other lanes, they followed me. It's also Silver, I wasn't expecting my team to punish them for having ultimates on cooldown.
Chaos6896 votesWhile I do feel bad for you, just getting camped and killed is no reason to punish anyone.
Zen Ineth3 votesI am of the opinion that it should be. In the Summoner's Code, it states that you should have fun, but never at the expense of another player. If you are clearly intending to tilt someone by camping them all the time, then you are thus breaking the Summoner's Code and should be subject to penalties.
Chaos6895 votesIn that case every shaco player would be permabanned, Rengar would be worthy of a two-week, and even picking Riven would automatically land you an indefinite ban...
Zen Ineth2 votesonce again, you're missing the point. You don't pick Shaco or Rengar to be an asshole; You pick either of them because you need a way of quickly shutting down the back line.
If you're picking either of those to be an asshole, then congratulations. That's what you are.
Chaos6893 votesYeah, my point exactly. They picked VI and Malphite and camped him to shut down a mage with stupid snowball and lategame power!
(Find me one shaco player who doesn't secretly enjoy the pain they cause)
V01D33L2 votesI mean shutting down is fine but, they admitted in chat they were going to do it purely to grief 1 person in particular, which they successfully got away with.
Aptest4 votesSit on the weak laner is an acceptable strategy. Especially VS late game hyperscaling cheese champions
Zen Ineth1 votesHello, an actually kind Shaco player here.
Chaos6891 votesHI there! I would like to establish that your boxes are mean. As a Yasuo Jungle main, I don't appreciate having no buffs and being invaded 24/7 :(
Zen Ineth1 votesI don't do that. You may think less of me and my skills, but if I counter your jungle, then you can be sure I'd do that with any champion, since I only do it when I know I can get away with it.
I also don't invade, because my time can be better spent helping my laners get an advantage.
Chaos6891 votes<3
Still though, shaco is annoying. In lane there's the constant threat that he'll pop out of nowhere behind you and ignite-smite-QE you before you run into his W...
TequilaZombie1 votesYou think regular Shaco is annoying? I've been trying tanky on-hit Shaco for a while and it's absolutely cancer. It's like Tank Ekko, but there's 2 of them.
(Find me one shaco player who doesn't secretly enjoy the pain they cause)
You found one. I don't make it a secret.
Chaos6891 votesBURN IT! AAAAAAAHHHHH
Aptest5 votesif you don't pick shaco to be an asshole you're doing it wrong.
Shaco is fun for both sides. Because being an asshole is fun, and also because beating up an asshole is also fun.
Aptest4 votesIn that case everybody who plays a character that wants to kill their opponent should be banned.
We should ban anybody who plays Hecarim, zed, fizz, leblanc, olaf.... ...all these guys wanna do is jump on the ADC player and ruin their enjoyment of the game.
Zen Ineth2 votesNo, because that's counterpicking. If a Fizz was camping bot lane every two minutes with two other buddies with the intent to frustrate them, then that's another story, but someone picking a champion for strategic advantage is fine.
It's not that going 2v1 to kill someone is bad, it's that they did only that and expressly with the intent to enrage someone else.
Aptest5 voteslook you gotta admit getting jumped isn't fun. getting jumped again and again is even less fun.
but that's a legitimate strategy. Get someone on the other team you don't like and sit on his face. so, if I want to win and therefore I go camp yasuo im "playing the game" but if i also derive pleasure from the suffering of a poor, defenseless yasuo player who only wanted to reach his late game and murder everybody, im a bad person?
Zen Ineth2 votesI'm not saying it makes you a bad person, but it makes me think less of you. Besides that...
"We want you to get excited, to have tension-filled moments, and to celebrate your success. This doesn't mean that we're okay with you ruining anybody else's day."
To quote the Summoner's Code. Sitting on someone to win is a strategy, yes. But if you do it just to ruin someone's day, as the two in the OP were clearly doing, then it's wrong.
V01D33L2 votesThat's how I feel to be honest. I'm fine being countered and camped but, they purely admitted doing it just to grief one person in particular.
Lauchmelder2 votesI had that just yesterday when I played Cassiopeia top. Their Jgl Twitch got me to a state of insane rage (I don't flame, but I'll highly curse at my monitor).
My premade friend saw what happened and we turned the 1v2 lane into a duolane matchup. It wasn't fun for either side at that point.
Generally my day yesterday was a day of bad luck. I got camped in every single game I played.
Aptest4 voteslook this is a competitive game and someone is going to lose and that someone will have a miserable day. The things you do to make that someone lose is what ruins his day.
So unless you say, league should just quit and become carebear share time arena, maybe you recognize this and understand your interpretation of the summoner's code is "somewhat" warped?
V01D33L1 votesI don't mind losing to be honest. I'm just disappointed people are trying to grief 1 person per game specifically for the purpose of griefing. Not to win or lose.
Zen Ineth2 votesYessir, it is indeed a competitive game. The intention is to win. People on the losing side generally feel bad about losing. On these points, we can agree.
However, your understanding that any action you take to further facilitate your success is "okay" is what I find warped. If you say there's no difference between beating your opponent in lane and having someone assist you in actively frustrating your opponent as your only goal, then I'd have to say your interpretation of social interactions are undoubtedly skewed.
Because there -is- a difference in someone being put out that they're losing and someone being frustrated that two people are actively intending to make sure that person doesn't have fun by constantly putting them at a disadvantage.
By your logic of "the ends justify the means", then I'm sure you'd think that drophacking and scripting should be fine, correct? They aren't just to let you know. Riot has voiced their stance on those activities in the past, and they consistently voice their stance on other activities in the Summoner's Code.
Aptest3 votesNo I do not think you should be able to do everything and anything to win. There are clear boundaries to what is ok and what is not ok and the boundary is when you do things that are not "playing the game". It is not ok to taunt and fluster an opponent in /all chat in order to degrade their gameplay or make their team flame them. Not ok to spam mastery emotes against a losing opponent to make them tilt. It is not ok to DDOS an opponent or to load up kiting/comboing/dodging scripts.
However making someone lose their cool by being constantly and consistently put at a disadvantage through GAMEPLAY - in this case getting ganked over and over again - is perfectly ok and is done in good sport.
"lets make sure this guy specifically has a bad game and consequently is not having any fun" is a perfectly legitimate gameplay strategy. Its not griefing. It's not personal. Its just sport, being played in good sport.
Zen Ineth1 votesNo, it is -not- a perfectly legitimate strategy, mostly because Riot states in their rules of conduct that they made for their game that it's -not- okay.
Argue this all you want, but you're dead wrong.
Aptest2 votesyou've heard it here first, boys: camping is not legitimate.
Zen Ineth1 votesAh, to be able to -not- apply critical understanding of arguments.
I wish I could do that.
Aptest2 votesI understand you. Griefing is wrong.
however "just to ruin someone's day" is a completely amorphous statement.
It can't really be separated from legitimate strategies because the "We intend to win by making sure player X does not develop his character because we send him to the fountain 24/7" and "We intend to win by making sure player X is raging all over the place because we send him to the fountain 24/7" are identical.
You coming from the outside can not identify one from the other. You have no tools and no ability to do so. If you go about and say "they intended to ruin his day" it is just as likely to be your imagination reacting to the other team's (toxic and unacceptable) banter. All chat is your only way of identifying one from the other and Its just as likely that whatever they are spewing on all chat is completely random off hand remarks regardless of what is said.
Intent is the most difficult thing to distinguish. So rules should in all possible cases be based on actions.
