Daily Reminder that the Boards dont resemble the majority of the Playerbase

Ronin Tamos·Jul 11, 2016·53 votes·1,671 views

I dare to say that most of the people playing league feel indifferent about DQ and therefore nothing will change.

73 Comments

DaenJul 11, 201615 votes

most of the people playing league feel indifferent about DQ

I absolutely agree with this. The key to consider, however, is that if most people playing League feel indifferent about DQ, did they also feel indifferent about SQ (provided New Champion Select is removed as a variable)? If so, then the majority of the playerbase actually doesn't matter when it comes to the decision of whether or not Dynamic Queue is a good/ideal approach.

I know that sounds callous, but if the majority of the playerbase doesn't care one way or the other then the decision should be tailored for one (or both) of the following:

New players, to increase player acquisition
Core/dedicated players, to increase player retention

The Boards and reddit are, in theory, disproportionately higher in core/dedicated players than a statistically random survey. These platforms are also (again, in theory) disproportionately more likely to have dialogue that offers critique and criticism than the reverse, since that's usually more worth talking about.

That being said, I wouldn't necessarily say that just because the Boards/reddit is not the majority we shouldn't be offering critique.

I don't have a direct source on this (if anyone does, please help me out), but apparently a Rioter posted recently saying over ten percent of the playerbase is heavily against Dynamic Queue. This might not sound like a lot, but ten percent is an astronomical number when considering just how many people that actually is in a community of this size. Is it the majority? No. Is it a statistically significant percentage? Absolutely.

Another important question to ask, about that ten percent: What is the investment distribution of that 10%? Is it primarily comprised of dedicated players, including content creators, professionals, etc.? If so, do these people have a disproportionately high influence over others due to their positions in the community?

Serpents EmbraceJul 11, 20164 votes

then the majority of the playerbase actually doesn't matter

That's definitely not how that works.

If the majority of the player base was indifferent both before and after the change, it only suggests that the difference between SQ and DQ is irrelevant. You're basically saying "they didn't agree with me before or after so their opinions don't matter".

AMYS GRAVEJul 11, 20164 votes

The difference is irrelevant to those players, but to the rest of the player base it makes all the difference. I've linked the 11% quote in another comment but imagine if (Some made up numbers that could be wrong) 85% of the playerbase didn't care, 11% were pissed, and 4% liked it. If you don't have an opinion on the matter then you aren't informing a decision on whether it is a good change or not.

Of course those made up numbers could also be 75% don't care, 11% pissed, and 14% liked it but again the indifferent majority doesn't help inform the decision, only those with opinions do.

Pika FoxJul 11, 20163 votes

Except its far more likely 4% are pissed and 11+% like it than the other way around.

LazyW0lfJul 12, 20163 votes

Actually, you never can know for sure what side would take the higher percentage since there are so many variables that go into it. Sure, you could be right, but people may also want Solo Queue back because they don't like change, like to play without large premades, etc. (you can see these on the boards and reddit everywhere). People may also support Dynamic Queue because they can play ranked with friends, have fun playing ranked, climb the ranked ladder with friends, etc.

The point is, you can never be sure what side any change favors unless Riot shows hard stats. Since they haven't, there's no proof of anything. It could be 50/25/25 or 50/40/10 or any combination of numbers you can think of.

Pika FoxJul 12, 20161 votes

Boards and reddit are not good indicators, at all. Especially due to negativity bias.

LazyW0lfJul 12, 20161 votes

I wasn't using them as good indicators, I was referencing them for other places you could find other reasons why people want Solo Queue rather than Dynamic Queue. You can also find reasons why people like Dynamic Queue and don't want Solo Queue back, but those are in fewer numbers when compared to posts about wanting Solo Queue.

Pika FoxJul 15, 20161 votes

Of course they are fewer in number; negativity bias bloats the posts calling for solo queue's return.

Serpents EmbraceJul 12, 20161 votes

You can have an informed opinion and be neutral on the subject. You're so biased you're trying to twist the majority of the player base's apathy to the SQ/DQ argument that you're willing to just write off the fact that in the big picture of things this change isn't important. If the majority of the player base sees no difference, finds that the change made them no worse off, then the company should just continue focusing on other projects. There is no large benefit in allocating resources in to fixing the perceived problem of some egotistical, vocal minority.

AMYS GRAVEJul 12, 20162 votes

If you are neutral on the subject then that does not inform the decision to keep DQ or not, you by definition have no opinion on the matter so keeping it or not has no bearing on your enjoyment of the game.

The fact is if 1 in 9 players are pissed over the change then it is important. 11% in the business world is huge.

Serpents EmbraceJul 12, 20161 votes

I'll leave you to your delusions, then.

AMYS GRAVEJul 12, 20161 votes

If one decison pissed off 1 in 9 customers you would be fired. It's not delusional, its just how the world works.

Thanks for your insightful comment though. /s

seraph1mJul 12, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serpents Embrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=amk8wNxc,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-12T04:25:42.296+0000)

You can have an informed opinion and be neutral on the subject. You're so biased you're trying to twist the majority of the player base's apathy to the SQ/DQ argument that you're willing to just write off the fact that in the big picture of things this change isn't important. If the majority of the player base sees no difference, finds that the change made them no worse off, then the company should just continue focusing on other projects. There is no large benefit in allocating resources in to fixing the perceived problem of some egotistical, vocal minority.

how do you know its a minority ?

AMYS GRAVEJul 11, 20162 votes

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4qattq/champion_update_ryze_the_rune_mage/d4rwznm

It's a segment of about 11% of the global player base that's really pissed at us because of the switch.

about 1 in 9 so when you load up into a game, odds are that one of them is really pissed about the change. every game you load in to someone is probably already salty coming in just because of the SQ/DQ change, not to mention the average saltiness of your average league player anyway.

EDIT: not sure why the image of the link came up as ryze.... it goes to reddit.

GaleWinUnleashedJul 11, 20167 votes

There's still something to be said about the incredibly consistent negative feedback we've got on the Boards. A not-completely-insignificant portion of the playerbase is extremely unhappy with a critical part of the game. Based on what I've read, a disproportionately high number of those against DQ are highly experienced, even professional, players. Ignoring some of the most dedicated and influential players does not seem like a good idea for the health of the game.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

The Yetii RiderJul 11, 20165 votes

Nah, there's really not a lot to be said about the incredibly consistent negative feedback we've got on the Boards. More players are playing ranked this season than previously. That's the only number that matters when you talk about whether Dynamic Queue is a success or a failure.

Dextix LTJul 11, 20165 votes

No it isnt because you dont know what exactly caused it. The removal of dominion would have influence on play rates, the new champ select system would also have influence on play rates.

Not to mention since it is easier to rise in the current system if you are grouped , many people would abuse the system to rise above than they ever could reach before due to their lack of skill.

The Yetii RiderJul 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=amk8wNxc,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-07-11T17:00:14.054+0000)

No it isnt because you dont know what exactly caused it. The removal of dominion would have influence on play rates, the new champ select system would also have influence on play rates.

Not to mention since it is easier to rise in the current system if you are grouped , many people would abuse the system to rise above than they ever could reach before due to their lack of skill.

Dominion? Sure. New champ select is tied to DQ. You can argue that they're different but Riot says they're not and their opinion is more important than yours.

As to your second point, that's irrelevant, it doesn't matter WHY DQ has caused an increase in ranked play, the increase is a measurement of success. "Players feel more comfortable going into ranked with better friends"

Riot: "Yeah, that's the intention of the system..."

seraph1mJul 11, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=amk8wNxc,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-11T17:04:48.037+0000)

Dominion? Sure. New champ select is tied to DQ. You can argue that they're different but Riot says they're not and their opinion is more important than yours.

As to your second point, that's irrelevant, it doesn't matter WHY DQ has caused an increase in ranked play, the increase is a measurement of success. "Players feel more comfortable going into ranked with better friends"

Riot: "Yeah, that's the intention of the system..."

riot also said that solo q was coming out i dont believe them

Dextix LTJul 11, 20161 votes

Yews, they are different, because both could operate without each other. Riot says a lot of things, doesnt mean they are true.

And yes, it matters why DQ increases ranked play rates, because quantity does not = quality.

By having more quantity in the que that is able to abuse the system given to them by getting higher rankings than they deserve you reduce the quality of the rankings which is never a good thing.

The Yetii RiderJul 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=amk8wNxc,comment-id=00090000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-11T17:49:12.248+0000)

Yews, they are different, because both could operate without each other. Riot says a lot of things, doesnt mean they are true.

And yes, it matters why DQ increases ranked play rates, because quantity does not = quality.

By having more quantity in the que that is able to abuse the system given to them by getting higher rankings than they deserve you reduce the quality of the rankings which is never a good thing.

It's an online game. Riot wants as many people to play it as possible. Quantity means EVERYTHING over quality.

Dextix LTJul 12, 20161 votes

For them to get money? Yes.

But for the quality of the game? No.

Pika FoxJul 11, 20162 votes

Lets be real for one damn second.

The majority of dominion players werent real people, most were bots.
You cant "abuse" a team system for rank in a team game. Your input matters, and always will matter. Youve always been an irrelevant snowflake in all your games, your skill doesnt matter all that much. All that truly matters in a team game is how well your team does, and how skilled your team is, as a whole. DQ merely allows you to pick your team roster, like literally every other competitive sport in existence.

If you are bad, your team will feel the impact. You cant be carried beyond what you should be at via your own contribution to a team no matter how hard someone else tries to do so.

Dextix LTJul 12, 20161 votes

I played dominion, there were a lot of people there, and i saw no bots in any of my games. And the que times were 1-2 minutes, which shows it was quite populated.
Jesus christ on a bike. TEAM GAME is a definition of saying that you have a TEAM. and TEAMWORK existed, exists and will exist without premades! It was a skill that was needed in higher elos. Your input matters ONLY if you are a premade.

It matters less if you are solo, because premades will overpower you (IF they are more than two). They will make the decisions the calls, despite your skill or leadership capabilities.

It also makes the solo player depend on the premades being good, because since he has premades the enemy will also be stronger due to that fact. Which means that if his premade isnt good enough then the "balancing" of the game will be detrimental to the solo player because it will be a lot harder for him to win.

Your skill ALWAYS matters the most. Have you watche any sports in existance? Even in team sports like basketball individual skill is what matters the most, only then, comes the team. THere is a reason why starts rise and are being bought by teams. Its not because of their teams, but INDIVIDUAL skill.

Rankings are the measurement of your individual skill. BUt with premade it doesnt measure it correctly anymore. And yea, DQ lets you pick your team roster, but then let me give you a real life example.

LEts have Full Real Madrid team from spain to play against a team of random players from all of Spanish A league. Which team will have an advantage and most likely win? Real Madrid. Because they have an advantage, thus removing any fair field. Sports have what is called Ranked 5 v 5 (Different numbers). They operate on that premise while also focusing on individual skill. This is LOL where you also had 5 v 5, and it was fair. However matching solo and premade players together is unfair.

And yes, you can get carried without meaningfull contribution, especially in low ranks, if that was not true we wouldnt have eloboosters.

Pika FoxJul 12, 20161 votes

No, your skill never matters the most. Yes, teams look for good players to pick up because theyre in a competitive environment, but it doesnt matter how good you are individually, they have no problems dropping your ass if you dont mesh well with the team. Someone less skill but with better team coordination will almost always be better suited to the job.

And it doesnt matter how good the elo booster is, you arent going to boost a bronze to plat. Its not going to happen. Unless the bronze contributes a good deal to the game, or the enemy team gets severely outclassed every single game such that the single person cant drag the team down, its not going to happen. And even in that case, those players that lost clearly didnt deserve their position.

Dextix LTJul 12, 20161 votes

Then why do players of high skill always move around? Teamwork comes naturally. Your personal skill matters the most, otherwise individual players would not be popular or bought for huge sums of money. They are hired because of their skill, personal skill! You cant decide a persons team coordination when her plays in a completely different team from yours with different players. Thus the only reliable stat is the players individual skill which determines how much he is worth.

And i was not saying that someone would go from bronze to plat. However, it is easy to boost someone at least 1 league above, especially in the lowest leagues of bronze/silver. While it might not seem that high, it still is an important part as it devaluates each rank.

GibberwattJul 11, 20161 votes

But this is the same principle as the Tea Party in American Politics. They made up a rather small part of the Republican party, but, since they made so much noise, they appeared to represent the majority of americans. In the same vein, the people who enjoy/don't care about DQ are playing lol and not posting. The few people who are totally pissed make a lot of noise on the boards, and make it seem like everyone hates DQ and league in general.

Think about the quiting posts - there is almost always 1-2 threads on gameplay's front page at a time. this makes it appear as if a lot of people are quiting leage, but in reality, these posts make up about 0.0000000001% of leaguers.

GaleWinUnleashedJul 11, 20161 votes

We need statistics on how many players greatly prefer DQ over solo. There's been a red post saying approximately 11% of players oppose DQ, but we have no clue how many of the remaining 89% are simply indifferent. If, for example, 60% of players just don't care one way or the other, that would leave 29% of players that prefer DQ. 11/29 is much more significant than 11/89. 27.5% of those that actually care is not a number that should be simply ignored.

Of course most of that is just guessing; we have no idea how many players actually prefer DQ.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

AMYS GRAVEJul 11, 20162 votes

actually the post said "11% of the global player base that's really pissed at us because of the switch" which would be strongly disagree on that 5 point scale, we have no idea how many just plain disagree so there could be a lot more opposition to DQ than 11% would suggest.

GibberwattJul 11, 20161 votes

Even if it is true that it is 11/29, that still leaves a pretty good sized majority in favor of keeping DQ. True, it isn't 100% in favor of DQ, but that is almost impossible. Maybe rito should try to work on tweaking it a little bit, but this statistic says that only about a tenth of the entire global player base hates DQ. I'm pretty sure that about that many people got their panties in a twist over the fiora/taric/poppy reworks, and yet those reworks went through, and people have stopped complaining, at least

GaleWinUnleashedJul 11, 20161 votes

Could be anywhere from 0-89% of the playerbase that likes DQ over soloQ. Regardless, 11% is large enough that something should be done to address it, even if it's as little as a unique identifier for solo players. Funny enough, we already have that, but it seems most of the anti-DQ faction doesn't believe that to be to enough.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

DaemonFuryJul 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There's still something to be said about the incredibly consistent negative feedback we've got on the Boards. A not-completely-insignificant portion of the playerbase is extremely unhappy with a critical part of the game. Based on what I've read, a disproportionately high number of those against DQ are highly experienced, even professional, players. Ignoring some of the most dedicated and influential players does not seem like a good idea for the health of the game.

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

What a marvelously cogent post..... duly noted and ignored by the unwashed masses, I daresay.

MarshbouyJul 11, 20166 votes

DQ needs to be removed. espeically above gold elo.

Ronin TamosJul 11, 20167 votes

Thing is people will always blame other factors for their fails. Bad teammates, Duo players, non balanced champions.

I agree that DQ has the most appearent (right word?) flaws in the higher elos, but it wont change a thing.

MarshbouyJul 11, 20165 votes

i agree. Idiots will say that DQ is the reason why they aren't diamond

smart people will say "its ruining competitive integrity" and "ranked is less meaningful because anyone can be boosted"

OHminusJul 11, 20165 votes

The strange thing is, the people who hate DQ the most are diamond or above...

MarshbouyJul 11, 20162 votes

except for those people on the boards who say "these boosted animals are holding me back!!!!!" did you read the thing about it needing to be removed especially above gold? diamond is above gold.

those diamond players tend to be smart and say "its ruining competitive integrity.

FlitcheeJul 11, 20165 votes

I honestly think their biggest gripe, is the matchmaking. Some games, very seldom however, are actually even games, the other times they are very snowbally, for a multitude of reasons. That being said though, they mostly hate it because of Q times, and the matchmaking being broken.

The multitude of reasons are, games are either snowbally because of someones mistake, or they are snowbally because theres a smurf, or an outlier of a player in the game (either higher elo or lower elo) that skews the reults of the game. I've had games in high plat where theres just a random diamond 3 player for no good reason in my games, and not even because there being demoted or something. I've also seen some boosted animals on enemy teams and my own, which feelsbad for everyone involved, i hate beating them because its just silly and unrewarding, as well as you learn nothing, and losing because of them is even worse, because you try and help them, but they think they are just outright better than you for no reason, or they don't understand or comprehend what you are telling them to do.

disregardableJul 11, 20166 votes

More precisely, the people that care are quitting or switching to Overwatch.

MarshbouyJul 11, 20163 votes

sucks for them. OW has dynamic too. Everyone hates it over there also.

MymyamiaouJul 11, 20162 votes

One of the main gripes people have is how sudden death is played out, and that is being removed in season two. Other than that and a few other things I see the same things in OW that I did in League-- sometimes you get matched with shitty people, and sometimes you don't!

AMYS GRAVEJul 11, 20161 votes

and after that happens a majority of the playerbase will prefer DQ! success!

The Yetii RiderJul 11, 20166 votes

Yep, you're correct.

LatetotheRaceJul 11, 20165 votes

If they're indifferent then no one would care if we got rid of it right?

Hyrum GraffJul 11, 20164 votes

Fact Check

FioraWillCarryJul 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ronin Tamos,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=amk8wNxc,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-11T12:56:10.644+0000)

I dare to say that most of the people playing league feel indifferent about DQ and therefore nothing will change.

You damn right I feel indifferent. Premades, solo players, they all feed me in the end. Da fuck do I care.

seraph1mJul 12, 20161 votes