About Leona?

Astral Duck·Aug 11, 2014·3 votes·1,054 views

So, let me just say - I think Leona is fine, but it would be awesome if Leona could solo lane (Mid/top, or even Jungle.), make it so she can proc her own passive? And if it's too stronk, nerf the damage on it maybe?

20 Comments

Earl EulrichAug 11, 20143 votes

She already is able to jungle, and even Sololane in some cases (better have a premade jungler). Just don´t be shy and try it out.

Knight SoIaire Aug 11, 20141 votes

dem tunks and their base damags

exiledFromBadmenAug 12, 20141 votes

I did top lane Leona . She's not bad against Jax . But I still built item 3401 first because it gives so much HP and has fairly low cost.

Hullabaloo907Dec 5, 20141 votes

If your in a solo lane, you can rush a warmogs and have more health regen and more health.

Earl EulrichDec 9, 20141 votes

you should always rush Sunfire for the extra-dps/waveclear on Leona as a Sololaner/jungler.

Hullabaloo907Dec 9, 20141 votes

I meant more in comparison item 3401 . There isnt a reason you should get this in a solo lane because you cant use the passive at all

Earl EulrichDec 9, 20141 votes

mh, you could go for some silly tactic with bringing the jungler in every minute for a gank to use the passive...but yea, it´s not really worth it on a solo-lane.

AnomanderDec 8, 20141 votes

Ganking for a Leona top is a dream...... She can lock them down so hard and so long.

EapenatorAug 11, 20143 votes

playing supports in other lanes = either it works and becomes FOTM, or you get called a troll. JK

Seriously,

I think riot does not want supports in other lanes due to previous examples ( Lulu and Soraka) being really toxic and unfun to play against, due to the way they are designed. In addition to hurting the support side as well as the identity of the champions in the process, balancing these champions in both lanes are a nightmare.

I would rather Leona stay the super cc all in goddess that she is, who is useless when all onher own. But has the potential to pull off amazing plays with her team.

shppyDec 5, 20142 votes

There's a difference between playing Leona elsewhere and playing most 'supports' (except Blitz, maybe Braum and Thresh) elsewhere.

Most supports are intentionally anti-interaction; heals, shields, poke, disengage... their kits are basically built around ending 2-way interaction and limiting the influence enemies are capable of having while that interaction is taking place. When allowed to be reasonable solos they pretty much can remove any 2-way interaction in a lane, making it so that either nothing reaches them or what does actually reach them doesn't stick. It's stagnant, it's boring, and frankly it's rather unfair (since they themselves are still able to attack and have their attacks be meaningful)... honestly, the only reason they even are allowed to exist in the game at all is because in a 2v2 lane their mechanics aren't nearly as oppressive or effective at creating 1-way lanes (having 2 opponents and another ally creates situations where they can't oppress/protect everyone present, which is not the case in a 1v1 where the 'support' can use all their defenses on themselves and all their offense/disengage on the opponent all the time).

Leona's patterns are not like that. She doesn't have heals, or shields, or poke, or disengage (besides stun'n'run, anyway). She encourages a high degree of healthy 2-way interaction. It's not even remotely like taking a Lulu or Soraka or any 'supportive' support to a solo lane, it's like taking a bruiser there (as you would expect, Leona IS a tank/bruiser).

Don't lump all 'supports' into one group. Leona's a 'support' because bot's where people take her, not because that's her role/build.

Anyway, to the OP, she handles everywhere else reasonably well. I've jungled her to Diamond multiple times, I've taken her top and mid plenty. Top and especially mid are situational but fine, you just need to know how to build/play her properly for it. Her jungle in the past has been great, but right now it's not particularly pleasant (because the jungle in general is horrible, especially for tanks that aren't Amumu). I'd wait on learning her jungle until Riot gets its sh*t straight... if last season's jungle changes are any indication, it'll probably be a few months.

EapenatorDec 8, 20141 votes

I understand where you are coming from, however, your 'definition of supports only encompasses the non-tank supports. Leona is a support, was intended to be a support, and she will always perform best in the support role.

'Supportive' supports are in no means more traditional supports than champions like Alistar, Thresh, Leona, Taric, and Braum. Both archetypes of the support role has existed ever since the support role was formed (initially, there was no duo lane bottom),

In league of legends, supports can be two different archetypes. It can be argued that there are two very distinct classes of supports. Obviously, there is the first one you mentioned, the squishier support, who are able to deliver a variety of benefits to their laning partner, such as healing, utility, cc, and poke. These supports are very obviously bred into the role, usually with limitations set in their kit.

Then we have the much more ambiguous class, encompassing tank supports. essentially, they supports control the lane not by poke, but by kill pressure. Being able to create a zone where if you are tagged by them, you will be punished, these supports are usually the ones dictating major action in the lane, outside of the jungler's influence.

The problem with this definition is that almost every tank can fit this role, and this is the reason why we sometimes see Darius, Xin zhao, or Jarvan bottom lane, since they bring immense kill pressure. It now becomes a question of which tank in the game provides the most benefit, based on the following qualities.

Kill pressure
CC/Peel
Tankiness
Utility
Skill Order
ability to scale with items

If you were to take each champion, and assess them for these qualities in the support role, some champions rise way above the others. Comparing Amumu and thresh, Amumu is able to provide a long range catch, has decent damage mitigation with his tantrum, and his ultimate would make him an amazing support. However, his ultimate is his level 6, and therefore, he cannot do much that point, resulting in him falling behind. Thresh on the other hand, has his most important tools available early to start asserting dominance level 1.

Now as to why Leona is, first and foremost, a support before any other role is that Riot designed her to excel at specific qualities that I laid out, in order for her to hit a niche in the support tank role. What she lacks in kill pressure, she makes up in a huge amount of CC, that is very accessible to use. She is also very tanky early on with her W, making her extremely tanky for engages. Leona scales extremely well with cheap support items, and with the way her skill set is designed, her combos bottom lane or available early on. The final aspect of leona that will always push her to the support role is the fact that her passive, which does a lot of damage, can only be procc'ed by allies. This means that all of her abilities lose out on damage in order to compensate for this passive, with the idea in mind that if an ally is able to proc the passive, you get the benefit of having damage and alot of CC.

Her passive is the reason why she will never excel in a solo lane against another champion who is able to use every aspect of their kit (In a same skill match up). This is not to say that leona cannot jungle, or go mid or top. All I am saying is that she will never be 'best pick' in those roles, unless those roles require a solo laner with minimal damage that can weakly trade. However, there were times where leona was a top pick in the bottom lane, when tanky supports were popular, and she can still punish extremely potent supports such as soraka and sona.

The only real champion that you can argue is a tanky bruiser that is mislabled as a support is blitzcrank. However, Blitz suffers for a poorly designed kit, from an archaic time. His lack of real identity and lore make him a very jumbled champion that seems like he was just tossed into the game, and he eventually migrated to the support role. Leona, on the other hand, was crafted with much more intricacy, from her lore, to her identity, to her skill set, she was executed with intent, with a purpose for the bottom lane, a champion that will defend her allies, Incapacitate her enemies, but never strike the killing blow.

Due to leona's lore, skill set, and niche that she provides for the bottom lane, you have to go out of your way to play her in another role. And like with Alistar, the moment she steps out of line and becomes a dominant force somewhere else, whether a super ganking machine or an unkillable top lane, she will be nerfed back into the support role, albeit, worse than before

EmbertineDec 5, 20142 votes

DUDE!! LEONA CAN SOLO LANE! I've seen it done multiple times! she can top lane pretty darn well and I've actually seen a jungle Leona woop my team's collective butts. Mid lane Leona is still kinda hard to pull off though, but I have actually seen very good top lane Leonas

Linna ExcelAug 11, 20141 votes

She can jungle, but not well. She can top, but she's a little worse at that.

If you play her outside of support, remember to get 1 or 2 damage items.

Hullabaloo907Dec 5, 20141 votes

i think the problem with this is that you would have to nerf the damage, because leona can do decent damage without the passive anyways. If you nerfed the passive to make it so you can self proc, your nerfing a role she fits really well with in order to put her in another role for no real reason.

SukishooDec 5, 20141 votes

She can already solo pretty well, you just have be very careful and know how to go in at the right times. I've played her mid before and she does well, only against other melee champs though, can be tough when they are ranged.

shppyDec 5, 20141 votes

When they're ranged you grab some early AD and ignite, wait for level 2/3, and cheese them with an E->auto-Q-auto. Two of those is generally enough for a kill, and the threat of E'ing in for it allows you to zone them out effectively, especially if you can take an early kill advantage and rush something like a Tiamat.

SukishooDec 5, 20141 votes

Yeah that could work!

Oh I love the Tiamat/Hydra on her.

shppyDec 5, 20141 votes

It's particularly fun against line-shot ccer's like Xerath or Lux (though Lux's shield makes things frustrating). Give them an open shot, as soon as they take it use E onto them; the cc will hit you but tick away while you are already casting/traveling, and you'll wind up behind them ready to combo them while their cc is burnt (and their other damage will often miss as well, as they'll generally throw their nukes at where you were cc'd, missing you if it wasn't further line-shots or directly-targeted stuff).

Also very fun against Kat. Play it right and she'll never be able to touch a cs with anything besides her Q without getting killed or beat to hell. If she shunpo's to a cs, she's wide open without an escape. If she tries to auto or W cs, just walk up to her and auto-q-auto her, and if she uses shunpo to escape before you do just follow her with an E then combo her. And if she tries to ult you, just pick a stun to use, or just stand there with eclipse active laughing at her.

SukishooDec 5, 20141 votes

Good to know :D

Oh I've fought against Kat, that's just hilarious. She couldn't do anything at all.

QuephaDec 8, 20141 votes

no, that would not be awesome. the whole point of her kit is to set up kills for an ally. solo laning would not feel like leona and a leona in the jungle with reasonable clear times sounds as gamebreaking as an alistar with the same thing. this is one of those things that riot would have to nerf into the ground like solo lane janna and lulu (with how much of her power budget is in her passive, riot has pretty much already cemented her as a support)