One of the silly issues with DQ is how Riot balanced 4s/5s

Rins Thigh Socks··9 votes·813 views

If you go as/against a solo team and looked them up, you'd know what I mean when I say the skill requirement is so damn unreal to compensate for the communication element.

For those who don't regularly ranked or deal with that, my friend was playing in ~D5 MMR and he got matched up against a team of 5s as a solo player. Since ranked is a measure of skill you better believe these guys were equally skill- just kidding. Three plat 5-3s, two Gold players.

And after dealing with all the fun that comes with a premade, I get a good laugh when he goes up to me and says, "Fuck this, I got 11 LP."

And I'm just wondering how this is balanced at all. Riot said that 5s win ~50% of games, but if you consider that match and how low ranked they were in comparison, you know he'd have eaten a 25-30 LP loss for losing to two Gold players. That entire match sounds like a waste designed to trap players and hit them extra hard simply because they don't have premade 5s communication as a solo team (unless they vastly outskill the 5s team).

Note; this isn't the biggest issue. This is just another small issue that makes players feel like their rank isn't meaningful.

13 Comments

Locke Daemonfire1 votes

AFAIK LP gains and losses are not directly affected by who you match up with. MMR is the underlying factor that affects who you are matched with and your LP gains. Your friend likely just has very low MMR for his rank (relatively common for Division V players because it's hard to get demoted from there) and has low LP gains because of that.

venomous frost1 votes

MMR is one of the deciding factors in a game, if you face opponents with lower MMR, you lose more points

But this is probably adjusted for premades

Serevas1 votes

The reason MMR affects your LP gains is because is affects who you're playing against. If you win against people lower than you substantially you gain very little for it, and if you lose against people much lower than you, you lose much more.

5 man teams get artificially inflated MMR getting them matched against higher skilled players despite not being at that skill level, yet despite the team MMR being considered higher there's no benefits nor protection against it for the people they're getting matched against, they get crap for LP gains, and lose a tremendous amount.

Prozzak1 votes

I really doubt that they artificially inflate MMR to compensate for them being a 5 man team without also compensating what people win/lose for IP gains. It would be a pretty large oversight.

It is much more likely that they had a slightly lower MMR total than your buddy and he also has a lower MMR rating than he should for being Diamond 5. Combine the two and he gets a low amount of LP for the win.

Serevas1 votes

Well he's not my buddy, but the reason I say it isn't compensated for is because before they dropped the high elo maximum to 3 players, I watched people lose 35 points for losses as a challenger/masters player matched with low diamond players in Dynamic Queue.

Prozzak1 votes

They should lose that much if they lose to low diamond. The disparity between challenger/master and low diamond (4 and 5) is ridiculous. It is probably similar to low plats vs high silvers. They are just that much better.

The bigger problem is them being matches against low diamond players in the first place.

*Realise you may be stating that the team of 3 is matched with 2 low diamond players on their team. If this is the case then this might be a tad much in compensation for a challenger/master trio to counter the communication but being as my highest rank has been diamond 2 I really cannot say. Feeling it probably isn't though due to the increased potential for plays that comes with playing with the same group of people.

Rins Thigh Socks3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Locke Daemonfire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aJgIopBv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-21T13:25:41.956+0000)

AFAIK LP gains and losses are not directly affected by who you match up with. MMR is the underlying factor that affects who you are matched with and your LP gains. Your friend likely just has very low MMR for his rank (relatively common for Division V players because it's hard to get demoted from there) and has low LP gains because of that.

No he HAD Diamond V MMR. He was like Plat 2 and was winning like 21-22 a game and for that game he got half his normal LP.

Locke Daemonfire1 votes

I think if he is getting 21-22 a game as a Plat 2 then he has roughly Plat 2 MMR. When you're in the right place, I think it's around +20 for a win? It's interesting that it was so different for this specific match, which does indicate that it gets adjusted for who you end up playing against.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Locke Daemonfire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aJgIopBv,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2016-08-21T15:10:15.736+0000)

I think if he is getting 21-22 a game as a Plat 2 then he has roughly Plat 2 MMR. When you're in the right place, I think it's around +20 for a win? It's interesting that it was so different for this specific match, which does indicate that it gets adjusted for who you end up playing against.

Actually getting 21-22 means you're a little higher, so in his case that means Plat 1 Diamond 5ish. It's still around that level and I'm D2 (on my main that got 7 day banned here) and from experience I can tell you that Gold players really don't belong in Diamond, unless their 5 mans have multiple P1-P2 players and I know that didn't happen because he said not a single player on the enemy team was even at his rank.

PhDs Nuts3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Locke Daemonfire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aJgIopBv,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2016-08-21T15:10:15.736+0000)

I think if he is getting 21-22 a game as a Plat 2 then he has roughly Plat 2 MMR. When you're in the right place, I think it's around +20 for a win? It's interesting that it was so different for this specific match, which does indicate that it gets adjusted for who you end up playing against.

My MMR is above my division. I gain ~22 per win and lose 13-14 per loss.

Locke Daemonfire1 votes

OK, thanks~

rollya1 votes

but to be fair you most likely had a 4 man premade and also a much higher combined mmr. which is why you were more favorable to win and also why you only earned 11lp. and don't tell me a diamond player doesn't know how to abuse a gold player.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}

but to be fair you most likely had a 4 man premade and also a much higher combined mmr. which is why you were more favorable to win and also why you only earned 11lp. and don't tell me a diamond player doesn't know how to abuse a gold player.

5s vs solos. That's why the rank has to get cranked up so drastically to compensate.

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