You can't leave a class , items , or certain champions so strong for so long . The world patch has always been a bad excuse to not change things that were unhealthy for the sake of " the best players of the worlds can't adapt to a patch with actual changes "
Kloqdq33 votesNow this is kind of flawed logic. These problems existed prior to the worlds patch for several months. They weren't just for the worlds patch but existed prior to them. The worlds patches need to exist because players need time to adapt and come up with game plans. Major changes like what came in 7.19 would have been a massive monkey wrench and completely screwed over players.
Azir for example would suddenly be a must pick, Xin could have likely been a viable pick, Janna was suddenly more OP. Even if you stretched the changes out, the meta would suddenly shift and turn so much that worlds would be as boring as any of the season split games. We wouldn't see the surprise picks or the variety of other game plans that teams could now try and think about because the series of changes were WAY to great.
The problems like Ardent, tanks, supports, etc. existed prior for far to long and that just felt even worse during the Worlds patches where the changes need to, for the most part, linger and rotten. The problem isn't that we should have changed shit majorly during the world patches. The problem is we should have fixed it before it ever became an issue in the first place. The changes should have been aggressive numerous patches ago.
TwitchInMyPants1 votesNow this is kind of flawed logic. These problems existed prior to the worlds patch for several months. They weren't just for the worlds patch but existed prior to them. The worlds patches need to exist because players need time to adapt and come up with game plans. Major changes like what came in 7.19 would have been a massive monkey wrench and completely screwed over players.
Azir for example would suddenly be a must pick, Xin could have likely been a viable pick, Janna was suddenly more OP. Even if you stretched the changes out, the meta would suddenly shift and turn so much that worlds would be as boring as any of the season split games. We wouldn't see the surprise picks or the variety of other game plans that teams could now try and think about because the series of changes were WAY to great.
The problems like Ardent, tanks, supports, etc. existed prior for far to long and that just felt even worse during the Worlds patches where the changes need to, for the most part, linger and rotten. The problem isn't that we should have changed shit majorly during the world patches. The problem is we should have fixed it before it ever became an issue in the first place. The changes should have been aggressive numerous patches ago.
Pretty true, though the fact Ardent was hanging around for so long is pretty inexcusable. Its been meta for almost 9 months straight even after it finally got some decent nerfs. They drug their feet on this item for months hoping adjusting starting items would somehow kill it, and even after patch after patch of it still being strong they eventually just used worlds as an excuse not to change it.
Plenty of things have swung in and out of meta but Ardent pretty much ruined most of the variety you'd see botlane since it meant lategame champs would beat most midgame champs since the 1 item powerspike is actually a 2 item powerspike. And even with the on-hit heal gone the offensive value is still really strong. This should've been addressed ages ago.
Kloqdq3 votesCompletely agree. Ardent was undervalued by Riot far too much and now seeing worlds they realized how badly they fucked up and admitted, they needed to be aggressive in changing it a lot sooner. Meddler in his last couple of gameplay thoughts where he mentioned it said that. Ardent was too powerful and they just sat on it.
Hopefully Riot understands this for next time something is OP and they act more aggressively in it's balance. You can see this with the Janna changes where they acted very quickly.
SweedishGunner15 votesHonestly it'd be awesome to see patch's implemented during worlds. It'd shift up the meta, show us which teams can adapt the best and bring an air of freshness to it.
Like Azir would totally be seeing play if they moved into 7.19 or above.
Faceroll Tactics11 votesInteresting idea, but it'd be more "who has more practice on the buffed champions beforehand" rather than "who can adapt better"
hi im alphonse6 votesthat happened in season 5 worlds when morde and gp were straight busted
It wasnt very popular
Thefrostyviking2 votesExcept that would be bad since Azir is clearly OP looking at everything, and pro players being too good at him was a large part of the reason he was nerfed, kinda.
Zero Skill Tank9 votesIt's not "they can't adapt", it's that big changes are very likely to introduce shitty metas and bugs.
Now, I now that NA boards consider ADC meta "the worst", but community outside of here seems to hate tank or assassin metas much, much more, and nerfs to marksmen (or support items that make them strong) are very likely to make tanks busted, especially considering how tanks were already dominating jungle lately.
Corvid13 votesPersonally, I like this meta. .3.
LiteUpSketchers17 votesYou know, I was gonna call you out on being a filthy ADC main or an ardent abuser, but then I saw your op.gg and now I know you're a Taliyah/Ryze main.
You are a man of culture, good luck in your games.
Corvid2 votesThanks. I used them to get through silver and half of gold. Im now a filthy skarner main. Sooo yea. A special snowflake.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesMany people do. Twitch can be really annoying, but well, there is at most one Twitch per game. Meanwhile in assassin/tank/bruiser meta we get 3-4 assassins/tanks/bruiser per game.
Bob the Toastr2 votesWhy do we see Vayne in top lane and Ezreal in the jungle and Lucian and Jhin in the midlane then?
ShaolinToilet4 votesAll of those are horrible except ezreal jungle.
Servant Ruler1 votesYep lucian mid is so bad it see's pro play :/
Bots Whilst High1 votesWierd how pro players plan their comp around Lucian mid while in solo queue you'll have an all AD and your only CC will be a yasuo tornado
Jerry Temporary4 votesMan, downvoted for having an opinion. What a sad world we live in.
Starcraft243ver1 votesSame.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesTanks are already busted for everyone else. How about we do not excuse the bullshittery that are marksmen epecially hypercarries right now with the possibility of tanks getting "too op". Well the other parts of the "community" are low elo adc mains, ofc they hate tanks and assassins. Heck just look at reddit comments where even now peeps be like: well adcs are OKAYISH right now not too good and not too bad when adcs are completely fuckin busted actually. People can say a lot of shit about boards but here are a lot of different opinions. From bruiser players, tanks, mages and even adcs. You would see even more variety if we removed this stupid vote system easily manipulated by bots or smurf accounts.
Draden6 votesThe balance needs to actually do their job. The meta is dominated currently by specific types of champions who can use specific items/mastery to the best effect. This has been going on all season, they simply don't care. Balance is a horrible joke in this game and is the reason 'esports' will always be held back from being an actual sport. FPS gaming are accepted a lot quicker simply because they are stable experiences, they don't drastically change every week/year.
Matchmaking will prevent is from being an accessible game to most, and further prevent players/viewers and also from transitioning from a 'pro game' to an accepted sport.
AirKingNeo3 votesIs our shitty balance lowering viewership?
No, it's the format that is wrong.
General Esdeath 4 votesRiot: "Pro players can't adapt to something that fast!"
Also Riot: "Pro players can easily overcome being one shot from 1150 units by Twitch"
AirKingNeo3 votesA Rioter has stated that they purposefully overpowered supports which is why, as I've repeated, I tihnk the balance team should be fired/not allowed to make the changes in the game. Hire someone who knows the game for that.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesBuffing supports to make them feel impactful is fine. The problem is not completely destroying marksmen to compensate.
AirKingNeo1 votesmeanwhile support protects a mage preventing them from dying and other classes abuse support items.
Yep, totally fair! /s
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesI mean you can clearly read he doesn't understand the game he is supposed to balance. "supports have low gold income so their items are overpowered". Ehhh no. Supports should have strong kits to compensate for their lack of gold income but rito never managed to make them not op in solo lanes with their kits. So they give them op items, op gold income respectively and give them only items and kits to jerk off their adc. GENIUS. Supports aren't even the problem. Locket, redemption are all good and useful items for the entire team and make teamfights actually interesting so i don't understand the complaints of supports being too strong or the reason for this meta. The only offenders in this regard are janna who presses E for 4k gold in stats and lulu who is cancerous as ever. Nerf adcs and the op tanks and we are actually gucci. Now the new runes come and adcs get to keep their fucking warlords 1-1 so that hypercarries can keep free farming without being able to get punished meanwhile bruisers don't get their fervor. ADC items won't get a nerf next season either.
AirKingNeo1 votesSupports are a problem. Knight's Vow and Locket make the ADC unkillable by assassins and bruisers.
Don't be that stupid.
AirKingNeo1 votesWarlords is getting uber nerfed. 1-50% AD to 1-50 + 10% bonus AD.
deadlychuck3 votesThe best players in the world are apparently the worst at adapting to changes made to the game.
PrinceOfStorms3 votesHopefully Season 8 will have another Marksman update that makes them not cancerous. Maybe by making ranged AAs dodgeable, like Lurker attacks in Starcraft.
Abibyama1 votesRito is considering a new patching system where big changes happen every month followed by smaller changes every two weeks
Fear the Kayn3 votesMy opinion has always been that once you get to Challenger rank, you unlock a different server that has different balancing than our games. You can't balance pro play and pleb play at the same time. So why not split them up?
Snake Prince1 votesthat should be the case , even tho i think they should take masters too , 200 players is really low
MonkeyMadness2 votesMaybe that'll make Worlds more entertaining: just be like "fuck it, random buffs" the week before the tournament and see what happens. I'd def be more interested in pro players being forced to vary their playstyles in response to major changes on the fly. It would showcase their ability adapt to a changing environment instead of just picking the same 5 champs every game.
Hello I am Bird2 votesMaybe for some tournament that isn't worlds, but as for worlds themselves, I would much rather see an expression of skill with meta champions than "Well, I just so happen to be better with the champion that's suddenly OP a week a go than you are. Therefore, I win"
TwitchInMyPants1 votesMaybe that'll make Worlds more entertaining: just be like "fuck it, random buffs" the week before the tournament and see what happens. I'd def be more interested in pro players being forced to vary their playstyles in response to major changes on the fly. It would showcase their ability adapt to a changing environment instead of just picking the same 5 champs every game.
TBH it'd likely fuck things up given every game is important and players are often afraid of change, pros aren't much different given they need time to prepare their strats so they'd be trying to play it like its last patch and banning anything that got buffed
Seeing picks like Zilean support in Ardent meta or Kayn/Rengar/Lee vs supertanks is pretty exciting because we have a grasp of whats going on but so do the pros and they're playing around the numbers they memorized, off-meta is less attractive unless you're sure you're going to win. However that's not an excuse for how lame the worlds patch is, the main thing fucking things up is Ardent making a 1-item powerspike be a 2-item powerspike putting so much priority on late game & dominating botlane. And its not like this started 2 months before worlds, this has been the meta for like 9 months. They've had a full year to fix this and they drug their feet acting like tweaking starting items would make things better somehow.
Poske2 votesI guess they are not the best players then
LCS is rigged do you honestly think Riot wasnt bribed not to nerf twitch You are delusional if thats the case
Balance team is horrendous.
Dengeden1 votesLol yeah, that's why Twitch is a priority pick in LCS. sarcastic coughing fit
Envoy of Melody2 votesI'd love a World's patch that makes the meta shit.
It would put to show how many teams can't win without cheesing it because they're not out for a humble victory but a pathetic meta stomp. Brings me all the way back to that LCS Cho'gath clip where he basically just OS'd an ADC with his ultimate thanks to Stoneplate.
OyddAWqJ5r1 votesHonestly the meta is entirely defined by the cheesiest top strategies in the game.
That's why Cho Gath Stoneplate became a thing in the first place. Someone tried it out and was like this shizz is op and then everyone hopped on it.
If you were to devastate the current state of the game into total imbalance for a patch I'm 100% sure teams would quickly find the most cheesy strats they could in those few weeks.
Hell look at the Mordekaiser rework. The moment it was tourney playable everyone abused it.
Yma S2 votesI'm sick of mobility creep
It's been 4+ years and nothing has been done
in Dota there are anti-mobility items, and non-mobile heroes can pick up items to increase their mobility, but it's balanced so that mobile heroes don't pick it up because of several mechanics
Dengeden2 votesYou need to reconsider your feigned rationality. There are ADC and support item nerfs left and right. They're not "Patch 7.21 The anti-marksman patch: "Any marksman can only do <50% of any given champion's health if they attack them for 10+ seconds" because thankfully, Riot doesn't take this circlejerk of a minority group that's even smaller than the LoL subreddit that seriously.
Snake Prince1 votesmust be a main bot lane to be so reductive about the bot lane impact these lasts months .
Dengeden1 votesAnd you possess an inability to look at patch notes. We all have problems.
Metleon1 votesI would love to see aggressive supports in competitive again. Opponent takes Kog'maw+Janna? Keep them from getting fed with Leona or Nautilus instead of just trying to scale better. Remember support MF last year?
Leonerdo1 votesI am almost 100% sure that Rioters are already thinking the same things.
I mean, they don't want to change things too much like they did in Season 5 with the whole Juggernaut class update two patches before worlds. But I think they realize that this year was equally bad in the opposite way.
Hopefully in the future they can find a middle ground, where they put meta-warping items/champions in their place, but they avoid reworking/buffing something else into dominance.
Tempist1 votesA good portion of the complaints regarding balance come not because Riot doesn't eventually correct the glaring issues, but because the company time and again takes comically long to do so. This season, we've had months of Ardent Censor specifically, and support itemization in general, dominating games. Enchanter supports rushing Ardent to win lane, junglers or tanks rushing Knight's Vow, etc.
Previous seasons we had Nidalee jungle dominating for who knows how long. Lethality abuse also lasted far too long. And the list goes on. Well, that's one of the complaints.
Personally, I'm of the opinion that the existence of a soloq meta is in itself a failure of balance. In competitive play, where slight advantages can win games, a meta is inevitable. But if for example in Bronze picking Janna is objectively better than Soraka/Sona/Lulu, the balance team has fucked up.
