Nid is a perfect example of why you dont always have to nerf a champ

Totalis·Apr 13, 2015·11 votes·1,206 views

Basically what the title says. People were complaining how strong she was, but now the only real complaint is the invis spears (which I agree needs to get fixed). Small nerfs to the champion were obviously not good for her cause they were nerfs, but her overall strength wasnt really diminished. THEN the meta shifted to tanks everywhere, and now every position she's in her win rate is under 50% with a not great pick rate in mid and top.

just shows you dont always need to nerf the champ, just make changes that make other things stronger, and I really think this should be done more. nid players are happy their champ is still in a good place and people aren't really afraid of her anymore.

11 Comments

SavagePenetratorApr 13, 20157 votes

she got nerfed 3 times, even in the last patch. your argument sucks.

SerevasApr 13, 20157 votes

Actually they nerfed the tank shredding traps by removing the % hp damage. So I would argue that the nerfs blended with the meta shift is what tossed her out of favor.

If the % hp damage still remained she'd likely still be in a relatively favorable position.

djjomonApr 13, 20156 votes

This begs a new question though: should the meta balance champions? Being that Nidalee hasn't received nerfs, but just isn't preferable in the tank meta, her problems from the last meta are still there. Maybe that's not a big deal, and can be addressed when she's a stronger pick again (not to say she's a weak pick right now anyway). Or, maybe Riot should address it now, to prevent it in a few patches.

Food for thought, nothing more

Drunk RummateApr 13, 20153 votes

{quoted}

This begs a new question though: should the meta balance champions? Being that Nidalee hasn't received nerfs, but just isn't preferable in the tank meta, her problems from the last meta are still there. Maybe that's not a big deal, and can be addressed when she's a stronger pick again (not to say she's a weak pick right now anyway). Or, maybe Riot should address it now, to prevent it in a few patches.

Food for thought, nothing more

It's hard to say, because the LCS meta doesn't necessarily apply to solo queue. I feel like solo queue balance is it's own entirely seperate metric from LCS balance because a lot of solo queue winrate comes from snowball potential and champions that can carry teamfights when ahead (ex: wukong, amumu, katarina).

Those champions aren't oppressive in LCS meta because they aren't going 3-0 in the lane phase, but in solo queue that happens on a regular basis so they need tweaks here or there to either make going 3-0 more difficult, or reduce their strength when they do.

AbyssphereApr 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This begs a new question though: should the meta balance champions? Being that Nidalee hasn't received nerfs, but just isn't preferable in the tank meta, her problems from the last meta are still there. Maybe that's not a big deal, and can be addressed when she's a stronger pick again (not to say she's a weak pick right now anyway). Or, maybe Riot should address it now, to prevent it in a few patches.

Food for thought, nothing more

You can't balance a champion based on a potential future meta. If you nerf Nidalee based on the idea that in an assassin meta she'll be too good then you end up rendering her unusable until the point where the meta shifts in her favour. Champions shouldn't have to be in a meta that favours them to be usable.

On another note she has been nerfed twice anyway.

WheatloafApr 13, 20151 votes

It's more that Nidalee is bad against tanks, but tanks were considered almost unusable for a while. Now tanks are definitely viable, and Nid's natural predators have been reintroduced into the game environment. Even if the "meta" shifts away from tanks again, so long as they don't fall to where they're considered unviable again, they'll be available as a way to deal with our (least) favorite spear-throwing champion.

CosnirakApr 13, 20156 votes

As others have said... you're wrong. She was too strong, got nerfed. Personally I feel she's still really strong more importantly not fun to play against or even with her on your team.

Skia AsteriApr 13, 20151 votes

It would be an example if she had not been nerfed, she was so it is not really a good example.

As a note of interest, the win rate of Nidalee vs Evelynn as jungle picks swung from about 55% vs 45% in 5.6 to 45% vs 55% in 5.7.

http://champion.gg/matchup/Evelynn/Nidalee/Jungle

Evelynn performs better in the match up by every metric except jungle CS, where there is less than one creep difference for both team and enemy jungles on average.

Though I think the average number of ranked games played by Nidalee jungle players sampled is down good bit (I think it was like 70 games last patch, now it is 52), while for Evelynn the average is down by only about 4 games from the 128 it was last patch. Might be related.

Poptart EvelynnApr 13, 20151 votes

Only problem with this balance style is that if it's just a couple things that are broken and you buff one category to even it out. You now have another category that is completely outclassed. Aka very few non cinder junglers are viable atm.