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Accuracy of auto attacks should decrease with distance, giving melees an inherent advantage up close

i cant move wtf··3 votes·463 views

BUT only against champions. Accuracy should be 100% when attacking minions/monsters from any range to maintain consistency for csing and jg clears.

Why do I think this would be a good addition? Because as of now there's no inherent difference between a melee kit and a ranged kit other than that one is ranged. Range is an inherent advantage with no inherent downsides. It's an intuitive truth that shooting something further away is more prone to error than hitting something directly in front of you.

Adding an inherent balancing factor like this would allow Riot's balance team to focus more on the interesting features of a melee or ranged kit instead of having to endlessly fiddle around with numbers so a melee isn't oppressed when matched against any ranged champion.

There's many melee champions in this game that have little to no counterplay when up close because they have to be. If they weren't given that much power at close range then they would be completely unplayable. Adding accuracy would soften these binary win conditions for many melee champs and allow more diverse melee kits to exist.

Another benefit to adding this mechanic would be a decrease in what has been termed "mobility creep." Melee champions have to have windows of great mobility (or great CC) in order to be playable. This goes back to the last point that when a melee is in range they likely will just win, but if they have no way to get in range then they automatically lose. It's very black and white with not much room in between.

From all this you might be able to see that it gives an inherent advantage to assassins vs ADCs. If an assassin gets in range with their 100% accuracy auto attacks and above average base damage, then they're inherently more reliable in a 1v1 scenario up close. The same is true of tanks vs ADCs. If a tank manages to get in range, then they're above average health/defense also gives them an edge.

Lastly, crit can be reworked to no longer be an item category that ADCs are balanced around. Instead, crit can be a stat that any class can utilize and could be designed to be a rare and niche mechanic that is made impossible to get over 50% chance with. There's no need to devote crit to ADCs if they're range is fundamentally balanced by diminishing accuracy, making them a fair matchup against melees at all stages of the game, not just early and mid.

I hope I've demonstrated why I think this would be a good addition to the game. I don't pretend that transitioning to a system like this would be simple and not require blanket changes on many champions. I think if something like this were added then it would be better saved for a preseason (and not this upcoming one since the new runes will be more than enough to work on).

I'm interested to hear what you think. Share your thoughts below.

17 Comments

Marshbouy4 votes

LMAO no. The RNG from crit is bad enough as is.

i cant move wtf1 votes

At the end of this post I gave an idea for how crit's role could be repurposed from what it is now which is to delay ADC power spiking until late game. The difference between the RNG of crit and the RNG of scaling accuracy is that you have full control over how accurate you want to be by where you position yourself relative to the target.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Have you ever shot something, like, ever?

Accuracy gets better up close, not worse. The relative size of the target is much larger.

i cant move wtf1 votes

That's exactly what I'm arguing, that accuracy gets better up close (and worse further away).

Beas7ie1 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever shot something, like, ever?

Accuracy gets better up close, not worse. The relative size of the target is much larger.

On a still target yes, but technically if there's someone with a sword or knife running at you, especially if they try dodges or zigzags then they get harder to shoot. Even more so in that "HOLY SHIT THERES A GUY WITH A SWORD RUSHING TOWARDS ME!" can really fuck up someone's aim.

Of course don't get me wrong. Picking up a sword or knife and rushing someone with a gun is a HORRIBLE idea and you still shouldn't bring a gun to a knife fight.

jwebb01131 votes

[deleted]

i cant move wtf1 votes

No, I'm saying when ranged champions attack a champion, their accuracy decreases the further away they are from the champion, and increases to 100% when in melee range.

Shadòw1 votes

So you want that ADCs/Ranged auto attacks are better when up close and worse when you attack from far away, when I understood correctly?

well, but Ranged champs should be rewarded for attacking at max range, not the other way around. Making ranged attacks from melee Range deal more damage would just cause a big balance mess.

when their damage is higher up close, that means they would basically get rewarded for facetanking. also, they would have to be balanced around that.

facetanking hypercarries are already enough of a problem with all this heal/shield BS atm, no need to actually resolve an ADCs playstyle about that.

from a balance perspective the exact opposite would probably even be better (ADCs doing more damage from far away than up close), cause that would actually force and reward them to position right and not be able to facetank the whole enemy frontline while melting through them when you are ahead in a hypercarry comp and play it right.

i cant move wtf1 votes

You're correct that a ranged champion's accuracy would be 100% at melee range (therefore doing more damage). However, this wouldn't make sense if the classes were rebalanced so that assassins have above average base damage and tanks/juggernauts have above average base health/defense. Then, all other things being equal, an assassin or a tank/juggernaut wins a 1v1 in melee range vs any marksman.

Shadòw2 votes

well as it is now any Melee damage champ already easily wins an 1v1 vs ADCs in melee Range.

but I don't know why you would balance Ranged champs around making more Damage from melee Range, and less from far away. they should be rewarded for being able to stay away from their targets, and not being punished for that. it wouldn't work balancing the game around that.

I just mean, when an ADC is balanced around losing just from base stats in an duel from melee Range already, and their damage gets even worse from far away, then their damage has to be basically nonexistant. What would be an ADCs strength when you balance them like this?

so what you want is basically that ADCs would get punished hard for staying away from their targets, like they are supposed to do, but still lose any duel from melee Range.

but what exactly would ADCs be supposed to do then? they would get punished for both, staying away, and getting close.

that would end up that there wouldn't be any reason to pick Ranged champs at all if they are balanced around heavily losing DPS for doing the things they should do.

i cant move wtf1 votes

First off, I just want to applaud you for actually reading the post and putting together a well formed argument. You're a fucking hero and I'm voting for you in the next election.

they should be rewarded for being able to stay away from their targets, and not being punished for that.

Here's where I differ philosophically on this point. It's not that ranged champs are punished for attacking from a distance, it's that ranged champions get to attack from a distance.

Take Ashe for example. If I were to tweak her for a new version of League where ranged champions have decreased accuracy from afar, I might rework her Q so that along with the attack speed and range buff it gives, it also makes her accuracy a fixed 100% for the duration of the ability.

This is just one example off the top of my head, and I'm sure there's many other creative ways to play around with this idea.

so what you want is basically that ADCs would get punished hard for staying away from their targets, like they are supposed to do, but still lose any duel from melee Range.

No, I don't want them to lose any duel from melee range, just be at an inherent disadvantage. I think ranged champions should be expected to poke down a melee before they get in range to be able to win. And actually, that's pretty much how it's already balanced. The game is balanced so that melees do in fact have higher base damage. One of the biggest benefits to adding accuracy is that it factors out the inherent advantage ranged champions have over melees, so the balance team and people designing kits don't have to endlessly tweak numbers to keep this ranged vs melee dynamic in check.

The other big advantage I see from it is that melee champions could be made that don't have insane mobility and still be viable. This just isn't possible with the current system. That mobility spell in a melee's kit could have been something completely unique and different, but instead every melee is required to have either strong mobility or hard CC just to be playable.

but what exactly would ADCs be supposed to do then? they would get punished for both, staying away, and getting close.

This is another philosophical difference. It would mean that a marksman focused around their auto attacks isn't automatically a carry champion (though they could be). The fact that they're ranged would just become another aspect of the champion instead of automatically meaning they're an ADC. What they're capable of and what class/lane they fall into would depend on the synergy of the entirety of their kit and not just that they auto attack from range and have good AD scaling. I don't see it as weakening the class but instead allowing more diversity for both melee and ranged kits. Melee carries could just as easily exist and be balanceable if this mechanic was implemented, at least as I see it.

Shadòw1 votes

The other big advantage I see from it is that melee champions could be made that don't have insane mobility and still be viable. This just isn't possible with the current system. That mobility spell in a melee's kit could have been something completely unique and different, but instead every melee is required to have either strong mobility or hard CC just to be playable.

Melee champs don't need huge mobility to be viable.

Juggernauts lack mobility and hard CC usually. But that doesn't mean that they are useless.

Yes, they can be kited easily if they just go in first and try to kill the ADC.. However, this is a team game. To get a juggernauts full potential, you need to lock down and set up the enemies first. The juggernaut usually doesn't want to do the engage.

You don't necessarily need CC or mobility to do your job, sometimes you just have to rely on your team. Once the fight is setup and the juggernaut is in Range it is a slaughterfest.

I think ranged champions should be expected to poke down a melee before they get in range to be able to win. And actually, that's pretty much how it's already balanced.

The game is not balanced about that Ranged champs are expected to poke down any melee enemy first to be able to win. This might be true for 1v1 situations, but Ranged AD champs fighting 1v1 vs an Melee champ doesn't happen all too often in a game. (Apart from maybe a melee top having to lane vs a Ranged champ, but there is no need to completely change how basic attacks work just for this scenario) But usually ADCs have to position themselves right in a teamfight to survive. Usually ADCs don't even want any Melees in their face at all. In that situation, they should be punished, and not rewarded with higher DPS, even if they already lack base stats. The playstyle "poking until they are low enough and then go Melee/allow them to come close to finish them" isn't really what a Ranged AD should be balanced around.

And then there are Assassins. Here, the ADCs job isn't to poke them low. They simply have to deny the Assassins openings. If the Assassin manages to get an opening through your team, then he did his job. But huge mobility isn't necessarily unhealthy for the game on Assassins strengths. They all have counterplay too.

But the main problem I see with this change is that Ranged champions would end up like Graves. He used to be a classic ADC until he was reworked into this.

But now, they changed him to get higher damage the closer he is to his target. But this meant that he is no longer viable as ADC, because now his only real aa-damage comes from Melee Range. If he attacks from a distance, his Damage is not so good as when he just jumps into the face of his enemy.

But, to make this playstyle possible, Graves ended up getting huge stacking MR/Armor bonuses with his E and huge burst.

A Ranged champ that is supposed to poke and damage enemies from afar, but loses damage if he does so, won't work in practical play.

To make that work, all Ranged AD champs would need something in their kit to compensate. In Graves case, it was bonus resistances and huge Burst.

Also, the thing with the base stats won't always work, because you also get either ahead or behind during the game. If the enemy ADC is ahead, he will pull off huge damage from Range, but even huger Damage from near you. This would mean that the ADC wouldn't even have to bother too much about staying away from the enemies anymore, because he will probably outdamage them from Melee Range anyway.

Draven for example has such a kit. When ahead, it is not unlikely that you won't even be able to kill him from Melee Range anymore. Then you just need more work done to kill him and play more careful. It's fine for him to do that cause he is balanced around getting ahead heavily and has other weaknesses for that, but we shouldn't let everyone get away with that.

Then there is the case where the ADC is behind. That would end up with him doing weak damage from up close, but even less to nonexistant DPS from far away.

Well this would mean that this ADC would just attack from far away and deal no damage, or come close to deal some damage, but probably get melted instantly.

So in the end, having squishy ranged damage dealers with more DPS if they attack from close won't work and just cause a huge balance mess. ADCs should always be rewarded for being able to attack from maximum distance, and don't get bonuses for getting close imo.

i cant move wtf1 votes

Hold up, you're assuming the way things are currently balanced would stay the same. I agree it wouldn't be balanced with how the numbers currently are so there's no need to go into many examples, I'm with you on that.

It's a philosophical difference here... it's not that marksmen do more damage than melees up close (they wouldn't, remember I think that assassins should have higher base damage and tanks/jugs higher base health/armor), it's that marksmen GET to attack from range. I know this is a subtle difference but it's important.

Attacking from range isn't a huge advantage currently because melee kits are designed to have extremely high mobility or CC in order to close the distance consistently. I think League is very balanced in its current state, which is why I agree with your above post, BUT it comes at the cost of less champion kit diversity.

If there were 2 champions that were exactly the same but one was ranged, the ranged champion would be better. That's the simplicity of adding accuracy. It gives an inherent nerf to any ranged auto attacks so that all the abilities in a melee or ranged champion's kit have waaaaaaaay more options beyond needing to have strong mobility or high amounts of CC.

Do you see the angle I'm coming from?

Hikageya1 votes

This thing remind me of MXM , they done that. Every range class are low tier because they deal no damage once any champion with gape closer like yi are in the game.

i cant move wtf1 votes

At the end of this post I said that many champions would need changes to compensate. Right now the game is balanced around melees having lots of gap closers like you point out with Yi. I'm not arguing that you could simply add accuracy and the game would be balanced immediately without any other changes.

Vectros1 votes

What if ranged auto's were basically skill shots? Like, you click, and it shoots where you clicked? Like in Smite.

Not saying this is a good idea, just throwing it out there.

i cant move wtf1 votes

I think it would make csing too hard and target selection in general. I'm not saying it couldn't work though. I could imagine a champion that's basic autos all worked like twitch ult. I think Xayah kind of does something like this but it's on her Q. I could see a champion doing that though and it not being game breaking.

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