It's time we looked at CC-dash priority

Renascent··18 votes·2,174 views

So some of you may already know this, but of all variety of CC-dashes like Shyvana R and Galio E, they have different "priorities", like how Gragas E beats out almost all other CC-dashes it collides with.

I'm not sure about other CC-dashes, but Galio E against Galio E prioritizes based on who fired first. What do you think about equalizing all CC-dashes in this manner? There may or may not be some very good reason for having CC-dash "priority" that I am not aware of, so please enlighten me if there is.

19 Comments

Shuyin1786 votes

The 2 champions that irritate me the most with this issue is Tristana and Ezreal. You can root, pull, suppress, any and all forms of CC, but they can still get their movement spells off regardless.

I was in a match recently vs a Tristana (I think I was Nautilus, I don't remember). I had her pulled, and during drag to me she should have been stuck in she was still able to hop away. WHILE BEING DRAGGED. It's ridiculous that such things don't get negated by CC that is designed to negate them. It isn't even a form of out-play. Tristana and Ezreal are the 2 biggest culprits of this happening. It's 1 thing to be immune during the travel like Gragas and Shyvana, it's another to be saved by retarded coding mistake that should never have been in the game to begin with. They press the get-away button to late and still get out because of this stupidity.

StealWolverine5 votes

They already pressed the button though. Long animation makes it seems like they were late however.

Shuyin1782 votes

Their animations should be canceled if they get stunned, snared, rooted, or suppressed. You cannot move during those kinds of CC, thus they should get canceled because of them. There's a difference between "long animation" and "get out of death free".

FrostyPacy2 votes

I agree with OP. As a former Riven main, Adrian Riven decided to remove the cc cancel where you could E-Q out of a grab such as Naut hook or Blitz grab. If they removed it for Riven why not for Ezreal and Tristana?

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

They already pressed the button though. Long animation makes it seems like they were late however.

Make the animation an interruptible channel. And if they need to have a faster animation because of that then so be it.

StealWolverine1 votes

If the animation was faster you wouldnt even hit them and do dmg.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

If the animation was faster you wouldnt even hit them and do dmg.

Says who? On the flip side, if he had half the animation time but what was there was interruptible, there would be quite a few times where the ezreal would be punished for being a tortoise.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

The 2 champions that irritate me the most with this issue is Tristana and Ezreal. You can root, pull, suppress, any and all forms of CC, but they can still get their movement spells off regardless.

I was in a match recently vs a Tristana (I think I was Nautilus, I don't remember). I had her pulled, and during drag to me she should have been stuck in she was still able to hop away. WHILE BEING DRAGGED. It's ridiculous that such things don't get negated by CC that is designed to negate them. It isn't even a form of out-play. Tristana and Ezreal are the 2 biggest culprits of this happening. It's 1 thing to be immune during the travel like Gragas and Shyvana, it's another to be saved by retarded coding mistake that should never have been in the game to begin with. They press the get-away button to late and still get out because of this stupidity.

i 100% agree with you... but the issue is they are coded as a "cast time" instead of a "channel time" casts cannot be interrupted unless the champion in question dies. channels times can.

FrostyPacy1 votes

Riven used to be able to do the thing like Tris and Ez. But they removed it.

????

Too OP for Riven but not for Ez And Tris

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

That's precisely how its intended to work, though. Dashes override other forced movement, and other forced movement overrides dashes.

TheSnacken3 votes

I think this is a deceptively complex conversation. Dashes cover a lot of minutia, both as abilities themselves, in reaction to other abilities, and additional effects like Crowd Control.

Some examples of variance in dashes include: -Lucian's E- Relentless Pursuit, which has no effects beyond the dash itself -Vayne's Q- Tumble, which travels a set distance -Leona's E- Zenith Blade, which changes targets, and only has a dash as a secondary effect -Warwick's R- Infinite Duress, during which he is immune to crowd control -LeBlanc's W- Distortion, which deals damage in an Area of Effect where the dash ends -The way each of these abilities reacts to their user being stunned -Dash-response abilities such as Taliyah's W- Unravelled Earth, Poppy's W- Steadfast Presence, and Azir's R- Emperor's Divide (both as an enemy and Ally effect)

I don't even really have anything to contribute beyodn that. There's so much variance I might need a few hours to come to anything resembling a conclusion. Maybe this can serve as a kick-off point for someone with more knowledge or experience.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

-Warwick's R- Infinite Duress, during which he is immune to crowd control

... supposedly... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peCarUtL--g

except its coded like crap so Singed and Volibear can still flip him off

Alex h87211 votes

{quoted}

... supposedly... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peCarUtL--g

except its coded like crap so Singed and Volibear can still flip him off

Whats even worse is that Soraka's silence prematurely ends ww ult as well, didn't even know about the voli interaction :( feels bad man, ultimate rendered useless by basic abilities.

SwiftKitten881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Alex h8721,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z9VzEesW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-28T15:13:09.059+0000)

Whats even worse is that Soraka's silence prematurely ends ww ult as well, didn't even know about the voli interaction :( feels bad man, ultimate rendered useless by basic abilities.

any form of CC can affect him while he is suppressing them, its just the time before the suppress begins that he is immune to cc.

the thing is your not supposed to be able to CAST the CC that stop the suppress BECAUSE you are suppressed, and if u cast it BEFORE you are suppressed he is SUPPOSED to be immune. so there should be no way to escape the suppress by yourself outside of item 3140 .

iPooUnicorns1 votes

His leap can't be interrupted, the suppress can be though. He had his Q activated, but it doesn't make sense how it interrupted your suppress though.

SwiftKitten882 votes

this is one reason why i never got too into super smash bros. could never figure out the damn move priority

ValyrianBlade1 votes

I wouldn't even mind the whole dash priority if Riot could just give us a list like "these are S tier CC dashes, these are A tier, B tier, etc..." and "higher tier CC dashes will always get priority over lower tier ones, while CC dashes in the same tier will give priority to whichever is used first.

Alas, they can't even do this. These are spaghetti coded and the result is random, more often than not. Or counter-intuitive.

If I use J4's E-Q, it actually works the way I want it to if my Q connects to my E AFTER any other CC has hit me. If my Q connects first, any displacement on me will deny my dash AND deny the knockup. I can use E-Q to go through a Lee-Sin, and he can buffer-input his R on me, and he will literally kick me out of my E-Q and I won't knock him up, even though I not only casted first but was mid-dash through him before he used his ability. Meanwhile if lee kicks me, and I drop E-Q during the animation with the Q reaching the E after I start getting knocked back, I'll pull myself through him afterwards.

Now, I can say let's ignore J4 since his E-Q is a "special case". Maybe he's just the problem because the dash comes after the abilities are cast, it isn't the actual ability.

So a Hecarim is charging at a Poppy. He's clicked on to her so his E should knock her back, and then she presses E to charge him. Who knocks back who? Well, I guarantee you it's possible that Poppy knocks back Hecarim because that's happened to me, and right after it happened there was a forum post asking why everything got priority over poppy's dash cc and I said Hecarim's E didn't and the OP said it was Hecarim's E that got priority over his Poppy charge. Err... opposite experiences? It's purely random. You can't possibly say a Hecarim that's mid-e and targeted on Poppy without losing vision "didn't press it fast enough". Nor can you say that a Poppy who has started her animation doesn't have the knockback. It comes down to whether the game chooses to let Hecarim start his knock-back animation early enough to knock-back Poppy first, or too late that he gets knocked back first. Which probably comes down to how far away Poppy was when she managed to press her knockback (so it's not actually random, but it appears that way).

I think the only fair solution is also quite simple: Any CC from an enemy champion gets priority over the champion's own forced CC unless otherwise stated.

So in the J4 case, it states he moves to his flag despite CC and is an exception. In the case of like Malphite, the ultimate is unstoppable so CC obviously doesn't interrupt. In the Poppy v Hecarim case, BOTH champions get knocked back and CC'd (with neither champion appearing to have been hit by anything after the initial collision). The impact knocks them both back, as if both lost priority. It's the only fair way, unless Riot wants to make an explicit priority list.

YoungSirJ0ey1 votes

The priority of dashes is simple, though. Dashes and displacements are coded the same way, both utilizing code called a 'move block'. Move blocks basically just force your character to move a specific distance in a specific direction, ignoring terrain. The way they are coded means that any given move block will override any previous move blocks. This is how Alistar's QW combo works. Thus, if you are Jarvan, and you land a Q on a flag after you have been hit with Lee Sin's kick, the move block from your dash will override the one from his kick, but if the Q lands before and you've yet to hit Lee, which would CC him and probably cancel his kick, his move block overrides yours.

In the Poppy v. Hecarim case, its weird as fuck because Hecarim's dash is weird as fuck.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

Yeah, it sucks to play Ali and try to knock gragas away, but he also dashes and knocks you up without getting knocked back.

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