What if Quinn's ultimate was a compromise

IcyPepper·Sep 16, 2015·2 votes·561 views

Between being a "tradional" ultimate and a stance change?

Give it a decent cooldown, maybe 30 seconds at every rank (hello Blitzcrank), and a smaller effect of what's in live. You switch to Valor, you get a speed boost comparable to Ahri's Q or something. You switch to Quinn, you get a hailstorm of arrows comparable to MF's E (damage, not slow. Unless you wanted a slow? Could contrast with the MS boost of the other). Nothing huge anymore, but could allow some shifts in her power budget.

Remove the added AS on Valor, instead give him slightly higher stats than Quinn (since he's melee, not ranged). Maybe slightly more attack speed as well. Have Quinn mark targets for him.

Boom. ADC/jungler.

Eat your heart out, Kindred (who I am also waiting for!)

13 Comments

J EpsteinSep 16, 20153 votes

good luck man. quinn will be ignored for years. They won't even attempt to fix her buggy as fuck AA's. They have spent years reworking champs like yorick and urgot. We have minimum of 2 years before they even consider either a fix on quinn, much less a rework. They would rather take her passive and give it true dmg for fiora before fixing her.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 16, 20151 votes

There is apparently a Rioter working on her right now

J EpsteinSep 16, 20151 votes

Apparently, but until then, i can be flamed for playing quinn in any lane. Quinn isn't a good adc. quinn sucks top. ok. :(

ModWulf HelhammerSep 16, 20151 votes

No, Quinn doesn't suck at ADC. You just have to be able to play her right. An important thing however is that Quinn is extremely feast or famine. If you don't get fed, it's going to be very hard for you to do well. Granted, it is possible to pull out of it, but it is very hard to do and rare (here is one example where I was able to do that: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1940544745/205363278?tab=overview&participant=6 )

J EpsteinSep 16, 20151 votes

What i meant was that when I play quinn top/mid, people flame and say quinn "sucks top/mid, go ADC". But then when I pick quinn adc people say "Quinn is garbage adc, go top". And by god you better carry the entire team either way, because when you lose it's always quinn's fault. I main quinn, so i know she's strong, no need convincing me.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 16, 20151 votes

No, that ruins Quinn

IcyPepperSep 16, 20151 votes

Nothing huge anymore, but could allow some shifts in her power budget.

Other parts of her kit could be more powerful :V

Any reason why, beyond a blanket opinionated statement?

ModWulf HelhammerSep 16, 20151 votes

First, you do not have a single Quinn game within a month, so I'm not sure you can very accurately determine Quinn's state.

Second: You have the same mentality that everyone else on the entire boards does about Quinn, which is that she is incredibly weak and needs a complete overhaul.

No, she doesn't. Quinn is completely fine.

Sure, I wouldn't mind QoL/bug fixes for her (and a little thing I would love to see would be a passive for Valor), but in general, she is in an OK spot. People always use her ult as am indicator for how she is messed up. The only thing messed up with her ult is when people think it's useless. Her ult is insanely powerful, and the only thing I would ever want to see changed on it would be to fix the execute ratio to be something more akin to Riven's (currently Skystrike deals the most damage when the target is already dead).

EagleheartSep 16, 20151 votes

You shouldn't be commenting on someone's play history when you're posting on a smurf. Unless this is your main and to that I say any champ would seem decent when you're unranked and have a normals MMR of less than 1200.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 16, 20151 votes

No, this is not a smurf, and what does my ranking have anything to do with a particular champion? Even if I was top ranked in solo queue, I would be far from qualified to talk about a champion that I have absolutely zero experience with.

Which is exactly what this guy is doing. I main Quinn as my ADC, first champ I got level 5 on, and I can pretty confidently go into just about any matchup and expect to at least go even (unless an unforeseen comes along, such as a 5 man gank bot or my support is horrible or DCs)

EagleheartSep 16, 20151 votes

Likewise, you shouldn't be qualified to make sweeping statements about a champion when you have no experience of her viability in higher elos.

I like Quinn. She was the first champion that I bought and I've mained her ever since. But I don't delude myself into thinking that she is "completely fine".

As to why she isn't, I reckon MCrossS here summarised it quite nicely (its a link btw): https://www.reddit.com/r/QuinnMains/comments/3ktnrf/if_were_going_to_survive_any_quinn_changes_we/cv0hsq1

ModWulf HelhammerSep 16, 20151 votes

Ok, I'm going to assume from your build and summoner spells that you play Quinn mid. I will be the first to admit I have absolutely no clue how well she does there or even top lane. I play her as an ADC, which has a very different build than what I see yours is (outside of like, AS boots and LW, which are a staple on most ranged ADs so that doesn't really count). I see you typically rush Ghostblade first, and only get and IE much later in the game (the recent ones I see you don't build it until 3rd or 4th item)

For Quinn ADC, you rush IE, then go into SS, grabbing boots when possible. With just those two main items, you can instaburst pretty much everyone in the game except a fed tank. (even faster if you use your ult).

Also seeing from your recent matches is that you have a pretty good win rate/percentage with Quinn, even in ranked. So what is it about her to you that you find lacking? And if so, maybe first try changing your play style a bit before thinking it's the character.

I could keep trying to play AP Zed all day, and when it doesn't work blame Zed's design for the fact that he has no AP ratios, when it was just my fault the whole time.

EagleheartSep 16, 20151 votes

I play Quinn any lane, albeit focus on top.

BORK > boots > GB > LW > IE > Situational has been the staple Quinn build since season 3 for all lanes, even as ADC, and is used all the way up to challenger. Only difference between solo and bot lanes is that solo lanes have the freedom to switch out or delay boots and GB/IE to suit their matchup. E.g. getting TF, BC, BT, MS, MoM, DMP, etc, instead of IE.

The build that you listed is just the standard, cookie-cutter ADC build path. It has proven synergy between each other but not necessarily to the champion's kit. As such, for most cases it'll work out well, but it's not necessarily optimal. Starting IE SS on Quinn is just as good as starting IE SS on Vayne (i.e. not optimal). That build is best for ADCs with high AD scalings and/or just want to output as much DPS as possible. However, Quinn doesn't have good AD scalings. At all. Graves' ultimate has a higher AD scaling than Quinn's harrier+Q+E combined. Lucian's Q has a higher AD scaling than Quinn's Skystrike at max damage. That's how low her AD scalings are. Consequentially, Quinn doesn't really benefit as much from stacking AD like other champions that build is meant for.

So why does Quinn start BORK+GB? Because Quinn is an early-mid game carry that needs to establish an early lead because she falls off late game by design. Therefore, she thrives from accessible, cost-effective items that give her an incremental, smooth power curve so she can consistently apply pressure. BORK gives AD, AS and lifesteal. GB gives AD, Apen, Crit, MS, and AS. IE only gives AD and crit. Slot-efficient items like IE are meant to prepare you for late game, and has more expensive and harder to acquire components as a tradeoff. For example, while you're sitting on a pickaxe and waiting for your BF sword, I could be pummelling you with bilgewater cutlass and a long sword or two. Quinn just can't afford to get behind early. Furthermore, BORK and GB's actives give her the survivability she needs to complement her unorthodox moveset. Vault is a situational escape, and if an enemy manages to get behind you, you're screwed. That's when you use BORK's active to reposition yourself to vault to safety, which otherwise would have had you vaulting backwards into the enemy team. GB's active on the otherhand gives you the escape which Quinn lacks post-skystrike. This enables you to be more liberal in your usage of Tag Team, which aids your need to snowball. BORK+GB also has better burst than IE+SS and is better at duelling in general, since it's less reliant on proccing crits. And for a champion with an all-in ult with no escape, reliability is key.

As for what I find lacking on Quinn, I've already wrote too much so just read the post I linked before as I share many of the same sentiments as the person that wrote it.

And yes I've had over 1500 games on Quinn to change my play style, and yes I've tried almost every possible build, and no your AP Zed analogy is nowhere near relevant to this discussion.