Am i the only one who thinks the fizz rework was a total faliure?

normie sIayer··89 votes·5,227 views

i mean his problems before rework that everyone wanted fixed were

  • e is super annoying

  • abuses lichbane with q w really hard

  • getting hit by his fish basically meant you were totally fucked

and what did they do to help with these in the rework?

  • abuses lichbane with q w even harder, but its ok you have to wait like 1.5s

  • e is still super fucking annoying

  • getting hit by his fish still means youre totally fucked but now its longer, bigger, and has the shittiest hitbox since season 2 blitz hook

not to mention the "extended burst window" with his w doesnt even matter because the shark applies it and by the time he sharks you and gets to you its already able to be proc'd thx rito xd

75 Comments

Troy24262136 votes

Barring a couple exceptions, the entire assassin patch was a failure.

Velzard of Koz5 votes

Yeah especially since most of them can still burst you down or poke you down with point and click. And those who cannot just need a little lead. If I as Mage get fed my projectiles are still samely slow, my delays are the same, my counters are the same. When Katarina gets 11/8 she deletes at least half ADC hp with two clicks (QE) within second, without the Dagger. So yeah, she deserves the damage if she's fed, but that basically takes away most of her counter. And when she got CCed right after (the remaining counter), she still could E out because the Dagger felt nontheless even with ADC dead.

ModJango Mage3 votes

The whole assasin class is unhealthy. Frustrating to play with and agants. Does nothing for their team exept maybe killing someone. Wonder why the assasins and the skirmishers get the most h8 from the community...

Aptest1 votes

EDIT: i can't read.

zaire901 votes

{quoted}

Yeah especially since most of them can still burst you down or poke you down with point and click. And those who cannot just need a little lead. If I as Mage get fed my projectiles are still samely slow, my delays are the same, my counters are the same. When Katarina gets 11/8 she deletes at least half ADC hp with two clicks (QE) within second, without the Dagger. So yeah, she deserves the damage if she's fed, but that basically takes away most of her counter. And when she got CCed right after (the remaining counter), she still could E out because the Dagger felt nontheless even with ADC dead.

no katarina is killing an adc with qe without the dagger since thats where most of her damage comes from unless shes building lich bane

Xx420n0sc0p3sxX3 votes

I know you said barring a couple of exceptions, but I would like to say I believe Talon's rework was pretty good. He has an actual niche of being the roamer of midlane, ad his burst is not quite as stupid as it was before. Additionally, he doesnt auto lose to anyone that is relatively tanky.

venomous frost29 votes

I would judge the rework, but i haven't seen a fizz since

SweedishGunner28 votes

This is a good thing.

five oh tree 27 votes
  • They got rid of his q/r combo that removed the skillshot part of his ult.
  • They removed him just aa'ing you to death and killing you with 500 DOT from his w.
  • They made his burst telegraphed so you have time to shield/heal/whatever.

His rework was a success, you're just focusing on the individual parts you don't like. He can't abuse lichbane anymore at all. His dash to you won't have his w active on it, so it really won't hit that hard, so it gives you time to do something before his real burst comes.

His problems before the rework were that he could just sit there and auto you to death if he missed his fish. He cannot do that now. He's a much healthier assassin.

I don't understand how his rework was a "failure" when it succeeded in giving players time to react, which was the whole point of the assassin update.

FuzzyLumps9 votes

The hitbox in his ult all needs to be fixed

MissingKayo1 votes

It already got gutted in a patch without even making a mention of it in patch notes.

FuzzyLumps1 votes

I'm not saying it needs to be nerfed. I'm saying it needs to be better visualized. I've dodged that thing too many times just to have it randomly jump on me in the end because the visual boundaries of the hit box didn't represent it well

AninLegions7771 votes

LuL wrong. He does more dmg. His W active is pure cancer and as he has E to get to you while taking no damage, you are still fcked. He's nowhere near healthy and deals more dmg than before. I don't think you know what you are talking about

five oh tree 2 votes

He does not deal more damage than before, lol. Not even close. He deals it in bursts now, which makes it seem like more, but it is a lot less. I have 200k mastery on fizz, but I played MUCH more fizz when the mastery system was not in place than after they implemented it.

His w passive used to do a shitload more damage. A ridiculous amount of damage was taken from that. the bleed is never going to be more than ~300 now. With the missing health and old ratio and such, you could reach values of 600-700 over a shorter period of time on low health targets. They also reduced the ratio on this.

His w active was changed so if you wait 2s, the damage triples now. That's 100% of his ap, plus a decent base damage. Old W active was 6s of his autoattacks having 30% of his ap + 30 damage. If he got off 4 autoattacks during this time, he did more damage than the new W active does now (probably 3 with ult amplification).

His ult was severely nerfed unless you land the gigalodon shark. Even mid range shark has less base damage and a weaker ap ratio than old shark that you could point blank with. On top of all this, the shark no longer gives +20% damage amp to all of fizz's abilities, so it was a net nerf to his entire kit. This change fixed most of the toxicity of his kit and made his engages risky, telegraphed, more dodgeable (Even the large shark latch radius is better than q/r combo), and more focused on burst than sustained autoattack damage.

Go on though, whip out your anecdotes about how you were playing a marksman/mage and how it's not fair that fizz killed you in one rotation.

LuL

I think you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and are bad based on your reply.

AninLegions7771 votes

So he doesn't deal as much dmg now but he deals in bursts? I'm not getting you. 5k dmg over 5 seconds isn't more damage than 1.5k in 1.5 seconds. Fizz's former W always put him in melee range but now it's hit and run. It's way easier now with the W proc. You don't need to go far on Youtube to see post-rework oneshot videos. Stop being biased and condescending cos the fact is you are probably trying to abuse the freelo he gives. Foh punk.

five oh tree 2 votes

He deals less damage now, dumbass. I just showed you how he does. Fizz is freelo? are you bronze? Full rotation burst in every situation except for scenarios where he lands longest range fish and gets to the target with no resistance is down. Sustained damage is down. How is that not damage across the board of his kit down? are you illiterate?

AninLegions7771 votes

Trollololol. Alright m8. Let me ask you this. Which does more damage, an SMG that takes 5 Shots to kill you OR an RPG that takes one? Your reply to this question may further reveal your ignorance.

five oh tree 1 votes

You're trying to apply cod logic to league, lol. No smg in real life will take 5 bullets to kill someone.

Let me ask you this, Mr. 12 year old scrub, which has more total damage before you reload: the smg with 30 rounds that takes 3 to kill someone, or the RPG that has 1 round and only takes 1 to kill someone?

That's right, the smg has more damage, but in smaller chunks. You're fucking dumb on a level that is beyond my comprehension.

AninLegions7771 votes

Oh ignorance and more ignorance. We are talking about video games and you bring life into it. Let me entertain your stupidity a while longer. SMG shots that dont hit any vital organs won't hit you right away but you die from excess bleeding (hmmmm sounds like Fizz's former passive. I wonder why) meanwhile an RPG aimed close to you kills you regardless. So there you go punk. An RPG still does more. Cos if there are 11 people there, the 30 rounds kill 10 and the RPG kills 11. I see maths isn't your strongest suite. Maybe try Knitting?

five oh tree 2 votes

11 people in a row will still be killed by just a handful of smg bullets, lol. Are you fucking brain damaged? if you want to play the grouping game, bullets will still win for kill potential per clip, because they go through people. I genuinely don't understand why/how you're so stupid and in denial. Fizz is decent. He was arguably better before the rework because he was more reliable.

Note: Military personnel lose limbs from explosives such as RPGs because they are severely injured rather than killed, so no, an RPG is not a guaranteed fatality. I dearly wish I could invent a material as dense as you, because then I could make an indestructible suit that I could wear to protect myself from your stupidity.

jr deputy meow1 votes

omg that burn at the end

Snowman Arc1 votes

Fixing the ulti hitbox is the problem. It's so big, but also the hitbox is also broken, to the point that you don't know if you actually dodge it or not.

Meowzszs1 votes

Admittedly one of the goals of the assassin rework was to differentiate assassins from bruisers. They absolutely failed to do this with fizz as the only meta build is to go tri-force and tank and benefit of the consistent damage riot gave fizz's w.

Sire Hippington13 votes

Yea, fizz is a total failure. He's even more annoying to play against, and atleast fot me way less fun to play. Turning his W from a dps tool that rewarded you for staying in close combat into another burst tool made him much more binary and took away a lot from his feel. Befor, he was more like a skirmisher with imo simply to much burst potential if ahead. But if not ahead, he had to use his slipperyness to stick to targets while staying alive to take them down with W. No longer haveing that old W for extendet trades if you can't burst your target feels shit. At the same time, non of his opressive issues were fixed, as his burst is even bigger than befor.

Really, who on earth thinks that changeing the dps tool into a burst tool is what you should do when you want to increase burst windows?

HongChongDong7 votes

So the title states facts, fizz was ruined by the rework. Unfortunately the contents are opposite of what the rework actually did.

  • They still didn't give him an actual passive.

  • They removed his identity and made him generic and linear.

  • They made him only viable when he lands his ult at medium range or higher.

  • They gave him that shitty W that in terms of power, is no stronger than an average mage spell, if not weaker.

  • Numbers wise he's weaker in overall damage.

  • And what #3 and #5 mean is that if you don't kill the person in your combo then there's not a single thing you can do. You can't escape, you can't finish them, you're screwed.

It's actually sad that people can still complain about assassins when the majority of them got boned in the update, leaving them far weaker than other champions classes and in most cases, pointless to play.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

What identity did he lose? being a brawler with % hp damage?

HongChongDong2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YwQNIteT,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-01-29T04:51:08.910+0000)

What identity did he lose? being a brawler with % hp damage?

He was never a brawler. Unless you're referring to the tank build,which was nothing more than bullshit that people exploited, you would easily get yourself killed if you tried auto attacking someone down in a teamfight situation. His identity that he had and should still have but doesn't, was that of a hit and run assassins. Dive in, deal damage, get out. Wait for CD's and repeat.

Now you just sit around with your thumb up your a** hoping an enemy carry that you can actually deal damage to walks out of position, then you just run at them and hope that you can kill them because either way you're probably going to die attempting it.

Sp33d Zer01 votes

That's a numbers problem. Not an identity problem. His Q and E, which were what made him so slippery, are still there.

HongChongDong1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YwQNIteT,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-29T19:08:02.529+0000)

That's a numbers problem. Not an identity problem. His Q and E, which were what made him so slippery, are still there.

What's the point of being slippery if that accomplishes nothing? If had the power to be slippery and dive a team and hit their carry at close range. It wasn't the best or most solid identity due to him being based around that DoT, but it was still a much better kit design.

Now you aren't allowed to get close. As a melee assassin.

Decreasing the range from you and your opponent punishes you with decreased damage on a kit that statistically is already struggling in terms of numbers. They wanted to delay the damage on the lower tier assassins so they made his W, then they changed his ult to give him a way to proc it from a distance to give the illusion of proper synergy. They changed his kit to fulfill an agenda, not to better the champion.

BluePolarizer1 votes

the problem is that some assassins are insanely OP, like Kha'Zix, Rengar and LeBlanc. The rest got nerfed to the ground though.

ChaddyFantome6 votes

No. the only thing wrong with the FIzz Rework was the stupid hitbox on his ulti.

Floupi1 votes

[deleted]

Supreme Senpai693 votes

They actually increased the hitbox. The fish gets bigger-- when they say that, they mean the hitbox gets bigger.

RavenMagus6 votes

I agree that Fizz rework was a failure, but the reasons you state are simply all wrong.

  • There is nothing wrong with his e, sure it can be annoying to play against but it's like any spell that provides untargetability, it's nothing that needs fixing

  • He abuses lichbane a lot less hard than before, of course he still uses it but having to wait 1.5 seconds is actually a pretty big deal

  • Almost all of his power is in his ult now, which is practically impossible to avoid with its super cancerous hitbox, but without a max range ult Fizz can't even do anything

  • He is now super binary - he either hits max range ult and auto-wins, or misses it and auto-loses.

Sincarnation5 votes

Fizz feels awful to play now, entirely ruined by that W change. I hate that his DoT is basically nonexistent, and waiting to proc W is fucking lame. This is FIZZ. The slippery trickster who smoothly slides in and out of fights killing his targets, and laughing in the faces of the uncoordinated masses. He is not fucking Camille who waits around for the perfect time to strike with precision

Assassin update was a mixed bag, some were really successful (Kat) Some were healthier just needed some numbers tuning (Rengar, LB) Others were fucking heavy handed nerfs disguised as a rework (Fizz and Ekko)

PastorWolf1 votes

I upvoted you but i just wanted to take the time to say.... well worded. Good job mah poor fizz is a shadow of who he used to be, laneing phase is so hard now. My CS is a joke. I cannot farm against any range or get poked to death and i used to get some power spikes and fight back making the give me some room to farm or have a death fight. Now Fizz is no threat. Poke and poke, he only has one shot to kill you then you can poke him to death as he walks away.

rtbf761092713 votes

I like how threads saying the rework was a failure always have this tone where he got stronger and they are upset over that. He is MUCH weaker. Both his playrate and win rate fell. Which means some fizz mains quit him (myself included) and those which remained are doing worse too.

Everyone hates him so when you talk about his real issues you get downvoted and when you say "omg ult so much bigger hotbox broken op op" you get a top rated thread. But he is objectively weaker and has even more design issues than before. The only thing they made healthier was the removal of the % missing hp from this w and the instant thunderlords proc from w q (w flat + w DOT + q = 3 hits)

So yes his rework was a failure. They didn't make him healthier but also made him uselessly weak too. Gutted my fish...... rip

Supreme Senpai693 votes

To be fair if I'm gonna be fucked either way, I guess I might as well be fucked correctly. Give me the longer, harder route.

Papa Slothy2 votes

he's way easier to beat now

PastorWolf1 votes

make it so sad

Void the memer2 votes

I don't feel as if it even was a rework, but rather an enormous buff. Fizz still feels like fizz only he is better and more obnoxious

Sire Hippington2 votes

Guess you don't play that much fizz yourself. He feels pretty different from befor the rework, cause useing your AAs was pretty important and gave you a more skirmisher like playstyle till fed or lategame, and now his AAs do nothing at all. He once was strong in extendet trades, especially early on, now he stays for 2 sec, of which he most of the time spents 1.5 on his E, and then he nopes the fuck out. He's now mostly about landing the longranged ult and 1-shot what ever was cought, or kill some one in 2 sec 1v1, and if those are no options, he does nothing at all. Old fizz was way less binary cause he had some dps as fallback if his burst would fail.

Also, walking away form a low health opponent knowing he would die to the dot was pretty dope, now you can't do that anymore.

Twitch Chat2 votes

Things that needed to be fixed:

  1. Fizz with lich bane one shotting squishies with Q and W active
  2. The effectiveness of point blank shark

Both got fixed. A fish snipe should be a death sentence. Why shouldn't it?

invisiblecat11 votes

Katarina, Rengar, and LeBlanc were failures Fizz and Shaco are only semi-failures Although now he does have to wait to deal more damage, his E still does the same amount of damage so a R Q E can still kill

ntbcool1 votes

why was katarina a failure?

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

{quoted}

why was katarina a failure?

People are complaining for years about the mobility power creep, while RIOT is removing the targeted CC and making it skillshots. The new Kata and stuff like Kalista are just slap in the face of the older playerbase.

TheOvermind1 votes

Rengar was also a failure and so was Leblanc.

can't wait for the reverts

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