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About Riven CD's

Commander Javik··13 votes·2,472 views

First of all , I'm glad that i don't see her much in my games , cause I hate her more than any champion in the game . Every time i lane against one , i have to put some music so i dont have to listen to all her " HA " " YA " HAaaa " etc ... I'm far from being a Riven player , and she's the champion that i'll never buy .

But that's not what i wanted to talk about . I wanted to talk about her late game cd's .

It's not a secret to anyone that every Riven player takes the Intelligence mastery that grants them 5% CDR lvl1 and the CDR cap is 45% . Also , it's not a secret to anyone that every Riven player rushes those two items item 3071 item 3158 + they get CDR in their runes . This means that they get their 45% CDR extremely fast and pretty early in the game , with almost no effort in my eyes .

The thing that .... bothers me the most are her cd's once she reaches late game (lvl18) . If my calculation are correct these are her cd's :

 - Q late game : 5.85s 
  - W late game : 3.15
  - E late game : 2.7s
  - R late game : 27 s

Now , i'm not gonna say that's it's broken/op , but i'm just gonna say , that i don't see any other champion that has so low CD's , except maybe Yas , but that's a different story . I would like to see this problem get addressed , and bring those values to some reasonable levels . Thx for reading , have a nice day . Cheers !

31 Comments

TEA Nietzsche 13 votes

Wut, has nobody noticed that these numbers are off?

Q late game: 7.15 W late game: 3.85 E late game: 3.3 R late game: 33

Also, as you apparantly have never played Riven, Riven usually takes FoB which means she will have only 40% CDR which means her actual CD's are: Q late game: 7.8 W late game: 4.2 E late game: 3.6 R late game: 36

That aside, keep in mind that Riven has to buy CDR/take it in runes - most champions have pretty low cooldowns with 40% CDR. Also, Riven is inspired by Marth so her spammy fighter gameplay is absolutely intended.

Keep in mind that in the days of Ninja Tabi most Riven's get that and then DD which means her 40% powerspike comes rather late (when compared to earlier seasons).

Now , i'm not gonna say that's it's broken/op , but i'm just gonna say , that i don't see any other champion that has so low CD's [...] I would like to see this problem get addressed , and bring those values to some reasonable levels .

So.. Why is that a problem? There has to be a champion with the lowest cooldowns (although that probably goes to Yasuo) and why wouldn't it be the champion that is inspired by a Smash Bros character? Her playstyle makes sense, has weaknesses and she is balanced aswell. No reason for unnecessary intervention.

Commander Javik2 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI Qaida,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtViAlpm,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-05-06T12:08:31.814+0000)

Wut, has nobody noticed that these numbers are off?

Q late game: 7.15 W late game: 3.85 E late game: 3.3 R late game: 33

I made my calcualtions manually . And I said " If my calculations are correct " . Apparently they're not if you say so . My mistake then .

Also, as you apparantly have never played Riven, Riven usually takes FoB which means she will have only 40% CDR which means her actual CD's are: Q late game: 7.8 W late game: 4.2 E late game: 3.6 R late game: 36

True i have never played Riven , but every riven that I see in game goes 12/18/0 masteries and rushing 45% cdr . I've never faced a Riven with FoB . I guess I should conisder myself lucky .

That aside, keep in mind that Riven has to buy CDR/take it in runes - most champions have pretty low cooldowns with 40% CDR. Also, Riven is inspired by Marth so her spammy fighter gameplay is absolutely intended.

I don't care whose playstyle she's based on .

So.. Why is that a problem? There has to be a champion with the lowest cooldowns (although that probably goes to Yasuo) and why wouldn't it be the champion that is inspired by a Smash Bros character? Her playstyle makes sense, has weaknesses and she is balanced aswell. No reason for unnecessary intervention.

I would argue about that . But you and me both know that she's oppresive to lots of champions . I consider her gameplay unhealthy . I would like to see her CD's addressed , because i consider them ridiculous , that's all .

TEA Nietzsche 4 votes

I made my calcualtions manually . And I said " If my calculations are correct " . Apparently they're not if you say so . My mistake then .

You probably calculated 13 x 0.45 instead of 13 x 0.55. 45% CD reduction reduces the cooldowns BY 45% and not TO 45%.

True i have never played Riven , but every riven that I see in game goes 12/18/0 masteries and rushing 45% cdr . I've never faced a Riven with FoB . I guess I should conisder myself lucky .

The problem is that you play at a very low level (no offense) which means that people are not able to execute very basic counterplay.

I would argue about that . But you and me both know that she's oppresive to lots of champions .

What champions are you talking about?

I consider her gameplay unhealthy .

How so? Could you please elaborate?

I would like to see her CD's addressed , because i consider them ridiculous , that's all .

I think just because the number seem low to you visually that is no reason to increase them. Why is it a problem that her cooldowns are so low in the lategame? In which phase of the game do you deem Riven to be problematic? What exactly is the problem?

So far you only said that her cooldowns are low but failed to explain WHY that is a problem.

Commander Javik1 votes

[{quoted}](name=AI Qaida,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtViAlpm,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-05-06T12:30:40.147+0000)

You probably calculated 13 x 0.45 instead of 13 x 0.55. 45% CD reduction reduces the cooldowns BY 45% and not TO 45%. My calculation formula was : xx%x45 . Maybe i did it wrong since the results are not the same as yours .

The problem is that you play at a very low level (no offense) which means that people are not able to execute very basic counterplay.

ekhem Y'know what people think about D5 players right ? (jk ofc) I think that i know how to play against a riven at my level of play .

What champions are you talking about? How so? Could you please elaborate? Basically , the vast majority of melee champions . I dont see the need to elaborate more about that . She has so much tools to deny cs for me , and eventually zone lots of melees .

I think just because the number seem low to you visually that is no reason to increase them. Why is it a problem that her cooldowns are so low in the lategame? In which phase of the game do you deem Riven to be problematic? What exactly is the problem? So far you only said that her cooldowns are low but failed to explain WHY that is a problem.

I said her cooldowns are stupidly low , true . They are problematic once she reaches her core items (most of rivens i see rush BC+CD boots) : she's difficult to catch , difficult to kill . Endless gap closers , dashes . For me , Yasuo is easier to catch than her , this is why i consider her cd's problematic .

TEA Nietzsche 4 votes

I think that i know how to play against a riven at my level of play . [...] Basically , the vast majority of melee champions . I dont see the need to elaborate more about that . She has so much tools to deny cs for me , and eventually zone lots of melees .

If you have trouble against Riven on "the vast majority of melee champions" then you do not know how to play against a Riven at your level.

I said her cooldowns are stupidly low , true . They are problematic once she reaches her core items (most of rivens i see rush BC+CD boots) : she's difficult to catch , difficult to kill . Endless gap closers , dashes . For me , Yasuo is easier to catch than her , this is why i consider her cd's problematic .

It's much easier to punish her for a bad engage as she doesn't have any dashes left once she used them for damage. Also, her teamfighting is extremely weak so if you have a champion that is not 1v1 focused you don't have to kill her - just group with your team for objectives and be more useful in teamfights. You don't have to kill her, just force her to come to you and then kill her with your team.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

Not speaking for or against Riven, but isn't the downside of being resourceless supposed to be high Cooldowns?

TEA Nietzsche 4 votes

There is not a "single downside" that burdens resourceless champions. Deciding a champions resource comes at a stage of development where designers decide what would make sense for a specific champion. That means they evaluate what would make the most sense thematically/gameplaywise without being unhealthy.

Most resourceless champions have low cooldowns or atleast 1 extremely spammable cooldown - otherwise there would no reason to have them resourceless in the first place. But what they generally do not have is: ranged harass and sustain. There are exceptions, but they are gated (Gnar has scaling range and Riot said that he would feel too limited with his unvoluntary form change in addition to mana costs, Rumble has heat management etc.).

paisy1 votes

They actually take stormraiders too fyi

TEA Nietzsche 5 votes

I know, I said "usually". Nowadays there are plenty Tanks, Yasuos and Fioras toplane and you take FoB against all of them. SS (or Thunderlord, depending on preference) is good against Trynda, GP and some others. Some love taking SS+Ignite/exhaust because they are dekar fans etc.

There are many ways to play Riven, but the most common one against most toplaners is to take 18/0/12.

Michael70210 votes

Riven has CDs?

Commander Javik6 votes

{quoted}

Riven has CDs?

Believe it or not , yes . But they're inexistant . I was shocked by this discovery too

Darkdemon6535 votes

Plenty of champions have cooldowns very similar to Riven's.

Also, Riven is far from being OP.

Commander Javik2 votes

{quoted}

Plenty of champions have cooldowns very similar to Riven's.

Also, Riven is far from being OP.

Have you read what I said in my post ? facepalm

Darkdemon6535 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zetio Kendo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtViAlpm,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-05-06T13:04:00.295+0000)

Have you read what I said in my post ? facepalm

Did you read your own post?

"but i'm just gonna say , that i don't see any other champion that has so low CD's"

Commander Javik2 votes

{quoted}

Did you read your own post?

"but i'm just gonna say , that i don't see any other champion that has so low CD's"

"i'm just gonna say , that i don't see any other champion that has so low CD's " is completely different from saying " she's op " .

Darkdemon6535 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zetio Kendo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtViAlpm,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-06T13:12:57.514+0000)

"i'm just gonna say , that i don't see any other champion that has so low CD's " is completely different from saying " she's op " .

The main focus of your post was to draw attention to Riven's supposedly inordinately low CDs, which was the main focus of mine.

You also mentioned wanting to increase the CDs of her abilities, which is a nerf. As such, you do believe she is OP, unless you were wanting to compensate her for those nerfs. You made no indication of wanting to do that, though.

abca985 votes

Even though she is very annoying with her low cooldowns, she actually has to pay for cdr. Meanwhile Yasuo gets it for free on Q, doesnt need it on E, and W and R cds' are stupidly low for their power.

03 greedo4 votes

Are you trying to nerf riven through this post? Like what are you trying to get out of it.

Commander Javik4 votes

I achieved one thing : Drag your attention .

Tangy Citrus4 votes

Riven isnt getting played hardly at all in LCS for how 'op' she is considered to be. The main reasons are that her weaknesses are clear as are her strengths, she doesnt contribute as much as others for the team (she provides damage and some cc), and then the last reason is she requires a ton of skill, experience, and patience to play her at a high elo/competitive level. To get to even a 50% win rate with her in most elo's is a big milestone for novice riven players to be honest, and anything above 50% is really good. Even Adrian Riven (who i consider the best riven player NA) has a 58% win ratio with his best champion, you cant consider that op when who knows how many years hes been playing her and learning her mechanics.

A big reason people feel riven is oppressive or op is that usually its a riven main/one trick playing her in those games. It would be similar with a jayce, yasuo, or syndra one trick. It is the exact same thing actually. If you want to say she has low cooldowns, you can say that she takes a lot to gap close, but like most melee champions if she gets on you you will have a tough time getting away.

invisiblecat14 votes

The issue with this thread is you fail to mention so much Firstly and most importantly Riven's ult cooldown in more like 42 seconds since it take 15 seconds for her ult to fall off Also, in order to get 45% CDR early you have to take thunderlords/stormraiders which are arguably weaker than fervor of battle, and you have to sacrifice AD in your runes in order to get 10% CDR, which isn't as common now since she doesn't need the consistent shield like she used to back in the tank meta Next is how little damage her spells do Late game if you build one armor items, each Q cast is going to do at most 150-200 damage, W will only deal 200, and ult with deal 500-ish when they have 1/4 hp. This means that she needs the lower cooldowns in order to function and deal some damage Also you did the calculations incorrect You should be multiply the cooldowns by 0.65 since it is 0.45 off of 1.00 so 0.65, so it is really Q: 8.45 W: 4.55 E: 3.9 R: 39 (?) The R one doesn't look correct, but the slightly longer cooldowns doesn't change much The point is that if Riven only got to do one chain of Q's in a fight then she would have a 30% winrate

Eternal Torment2 votes

true, riven has very damn low cooldowns, but that is sadly not even the main issue with her actually. the Problem with her powerspike is every time she lvls up her R and the growth from her passive. Riven earlygame can get shut down very easily, shes very fragile even with her E, heavy cc and silences like cho'gath, garen or renekton can pretty much turn her into your Little bitch, and to effectively Counter her you will Need some good armor. riven has low cooldowns, yes, very low cooldowns and they should be addressed, on her E maybe because that makes her so stupendously tanky for an full ad champion late into the game, but the bigger Problem with her strength is all the massive ad scalings, if you ask me. But that is just my opinion. Riven still requires a metric ton of reset skills to be played well, so maybe her cooldowns are so unchanged because late into the game you can't just faceroll your keyboard to win. i mean you could, but you will probably end up dead and ask yourself "why doesnt this work?". again, just my opinion, but it would explain a lot about her.

Commander Javik1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Click R for Win,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtViAlpm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-06T11:28:13.400+0000)

true, riven has very damn low cooldowns, but that is sadly not even the main issue with her actually. the Problem with her powerspike is every time she lvls up her R and the growth from her passive. Riven earlygame can get shut down very easily, shes very fragile even with her E, heavy cc and silences like cho'gath, garen or renekton can pretty much turn her into your Little bitch, and to effectively Counter her you will Need some good armor. riven has low cooldowns, yes, very low cooldowns and they should be addressed, on her E maybe because that makes her so stupendously tanky for an full ad champion late into the game, but the bigger Problem with her strength is all the massive ad scalings, if you ask me. But that is just my opinion. Riven still requires a metric ton of reset skills to be played well, so maybe her cooldowns are so unchanged because late into the game you can't just faceroll your keyboard to win. i mean you could, but you will probably end up dead and ask yourself "why doesnt this work?". again, just my opinion, but it would explain a lot about her.

I wasn't talking about " mechanical skill required " or " power spikes " but thanks for insight . I just wanted to point out that those cd's are ridiculous and hella unfair compared to others .

Eternal Torment2 votes

i know, i just thought i'd given in my sauce to it all. i mean there has to be a reason why her CD's are untouched for years, and in my personal opinion it is her difficulty what keeps it stable.

Monstrous Yi2 votes

[deleted]

Commander Javik1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monstrous Yi,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YtViAlpm,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-06T12:13:10.666+0000)

I hate the gay laugh of this champion so much.

That's why I turn some music on whenever i play against one in lane .

TEA Nietzsche 3 votes

Why do you hate lesbians?

DylxnBK1 votes

triggered

Arcus Diabolus1 votes

I would argue that Riven is nearly nonviable without building full CDR. She needs as low cooldowns as she can get in order to survive or she'll need stat buffs elsewhere to compensate, in my opinion. She also has to pay for it, unlike other champions.

But one thing I'm going to point out is why on earth are we talking about Riven's cooldowns when Katarina exists?

Her 45% CDR cooldowns look like:

Q: 4.55 W: 7.15 E: 5.2 R: 29.25

And thats on top of a 15 second refund on ALL her abilities on a kill or assist, where none of her non ult abilities reach over 15 seconds a pop at their highest. As in, she could theoriectically get 6 QWE rotations and 3 R casts in one teamfight when we add in the redundant reset without building any CDR at all. If we want to talk about low, virtually non existent cooldowns, Kat is a much better candidate than Riven.

UKP LK1 votes

Nah who da hell buy cdr boots on riven nowadays, its completely optional lol. Rune should be 10% already, BC is 20% = 30%, then ghost blade +10% thats 40% cap. Im a dia riven main, tbh riven is shit in this meta lmao

I never dare to first pick riven in dia rank just cause counter pick.

Blade of Justic1 votes

I just really really REALLY hate Riven's kit.

Especially her execute.

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