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I'm glad that Devourer is being replaced.

Vanic998··4 votes·722 views

I'm so happy that devourer is being replaced because devourer junglers can finally act like real junglers. This is not about my opinion on the state of balance of devourer. This is about something else.

In my elo and lower than that at least, most devourer junglers I see mostly farm. They rarely gank and sometimes even afk farm because they believe that their farm is more important so they can get sated. I know that you can get stacks from kills but the way devourer was made, it pressures players in my elo and lower to farm instead of gank since farming is guaranteed while killing is not. So basically, most devourer junglers aren't really junglers, but laners without a turret.

I'm not saying it's impossible to gank a lot and get sated at the same time, it's just most devourer junglers don't want to do that.

In conclusion, for the lower elos, this item is like a double sided sword. While players believe that sated devourer is OP, I feel that the team that has a devourer jungler also suffer during the early game. This is from my personal experiences. I am not a jungle main but I have jungled before.

13 Comments

Nyaboron2 votes

That's the whole point of devourer and whatever replaces it will have the same strength/weakness. Devourer is designed to be a tradeoff of early pressure for later power. When you have a devourer jungler, expect them to not be able to gank for a while unless you make it 100% free for them. Having a devourer vs an earlier game jungler puts pressure on them to make plays early to try and snowball before your jungler is sated. By not dying or feeding their jungler early, you put them behind and allow your jungler to get ahead. Basically, let them farm and don't feed and there's a good chance it will pay off. Carry him early so he can carry you late. Anything replacing devourer is going to be very similar in tradeoff (red-early pressure, devourer-late power, blue-ap/burst, green-tank).

Vanic9982 votes

That's the point. The way you described a devourer jungler doesn't really sound like a jungler. It's almost like a Nasus. What's the point of making An item for junglers like this if the champions that use them seem less like a jungler.

Nyaboron2 votes

Well then your problem lies in your definition of what a jungler is. A jungler exists so that top can have solo xp/farm. The trade-off between early power and late power exists in every lane (top: renekton early, mundo late; mid: brand early, anivia late; adc: luc early, vayne late). Lee is very good early but falls off late game and becomes utility, whereas yi isn't that great early and is subject to bullying but scales really well and is a monster late game. Devourer is a viable strategy with weakness and strength, the problem lies in the skill of the players in not being able to play without early ganks, or the jungler in not being able to weigh the risks/rewards of their build or playstyle.

cuddlykitten41 votes

Well, considering that you also get stacks for champion takedowns, I'd have to say that devourer in no way suggests that the jungler using it should avoid ganking. You're issue isn't with devourer, it's with the junglers in your ELO. Also, last time I checked Nasus goes ballistic if you let him do his thing...and you're argument is you think junglers shouldn't go as ballistic as a nasus.....that doesn't even make sense to me.

Vanic9981 votes

Devourer junglers shouldn't avoid tanking. It's just Devourer kind of does make farming more rewarding than ganking. For whatever reason, riot made champion kills worth only 1 stack while killing rift scutller worth 2. I feel that it should have been the other way around. My argument is no where near what you thought it was. I said that junglers should do ganks and go ballistic and devourer was discouraging most users of it from doing that or in other words, less of a jungler. I was using nasus as an example because in my elo and below, most nasus players, just like most devourer players in my elo and below, mostly farm and barely or never helps the team early game.

cuddlykitten41 votes

Actually, I fully understood your angle on this. I just don't approve of it. There are other forms of the jun item that provide the power you want. You seem like one of those players who wants every single champ to do the exact same thing at the exact same time. Honestly, I bitch at my jungle for coming to my lane. I hate ganks. It pulls the other jungler's aggro to me, and makes me the focus of the enemy. I don't even like getting a kill until 10+ minutes in because I want to outfarm my enemy first so when I kill him and send him home he can't come back with any real items. Same as the devourer jungler. He's gonna have to go into the enemies jungle with forces attrition on the enemy jungler. You complain about devourer and want it changed to which I say that devourer was made to compliment laners like me who push for the late game, and are not as concerned about early game. If every chess piece moved like a queen then chess would suck as bad as checkers. Also, the reason you only get 1 stack from champs is because it's based on takedown, not if you killed them. You simply have to participate. Once I get devourer I almost exclusively gank because I get my stacks off of kills. It's just logical to me. The reason scuttler is worth 2 is because scuttler was made to be contested. Logically you should not be able to kill it freely, and often the enemy jungle will stumble upon you mid crab kill. If a laner roams, they're going through river most likely. It's pretty dangerous to go for the crab in reality. Also, if you're so concerned that the jungler is taking so long to get his stacks, why dont' you help him get them? All he has to do is touch the mob before it dies to get the stack. If mid clears a camp, you clear a camp, and he clears a camp that's 3 stacks in one camps worth of time. Besides, not only is it the most powerful jun item, it's also the most fun and unique jun item. After all, this game is for fun.

Nyaboron1 votes

Devourer doesn't suggest that you should avoid ganking, it just makes it much more difficult, and in turn, not really worth it. Devourer doesn't give you much power early on. Furthermore, in 1 minute I can maybe farm a scuttle and a camp for 3 stacks, or i can gank a lane and MAYBE get 1 stack for a kill if I had burned their flash earlier. It's much riskier ganking with devourer both in actual cost (u may die to their jg in a countergank since devourer sucks early) and opportunity cost (i could have spent that time farming up devourer). In addition, the kinds of champions who build devourer are typically carry champions. Farming up early is much more worth it to them to hit that sated powerspike than risk a gank to get your laners ahead.

Jaygo411 votes

the problem is that it's not a trade off because an early jungler's lead just doesn't mean anything anymore. a 5/0 lee with warrior and hexdrinker still loses to 0/2 master yi w sated and half of guinsoos

Nyaboron1 votes

Are you talking about aram? Because a 5/0 lee can do way more than an 0/2 master yi. When lee is 5/0 early in the game he can force early objectives such as towers to put his whole team ahead. If played correctly, he can snowball the game out of control from that point whereas yi needs to stack up. If he's 0/2 then he won't be sated unless he completely hid in his jungle and lee decided not to counterjungle or invade for whatever reason. Your argument only makes sense if everyone in that game is retarded, which isn't a reliable mindset.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

The issue you are describing has nothing to do with the item; that's a problem with poor junglers not knowing how the balance ganks, objective control and farming efficiently.

While you stack slightly slower, getting both yourself and your team ahead early while pressuring the enemy team is often worth the trade-off.

It is quite easy to do both even when you built Devourer, especially if your champion had early gank pressure due to their kit (i.e. Xin Zhao, Aatrox).

However, you do have to account for the fact that many champions who built Devourer (i.e. Master Yi, Shyvana, Warwick, etc) had fairly bad ganks anyways. This would be true no matter which jungle item they built.

Vanic9981 votes

That true. I did mention that it happens in low elo. I guess that means that devourer is a pretty difficult item to use.

AlwaysByMySide1 votes

I too am glad that Riot is giving champions with poor early game pressure like Master Yi a shitty jungle item that isn't particularly good early or late game with no compensation. Dumpstering these champions will indeed make the game better.

A little Peepo1 votes

Technically they are removing devourer and not really. The new enchant will still give 40% attack speed and 3% of the targets max health as physical damage every hit and adding the sated passive on rage blade so a champion that does well and rushed the new madreds enchant and rage blade will have comparable power to sated at a much earlier phase in game and even then top laners will be able to have sated passive without farming it. Yi right now in pbe is dealing a good amount of damage and Shyvana will be the same.

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