So I get why a lot of people don't like critical strike, it's an RNG mechanic in a game based around skill and strategy which makes little to no sense, not to mention the VERY powerful powerspike it gives ADCs.
However, if this were removed from the game, what could be used to replace it in a fun, interesting way? Just looking for any suggestions, thanks.
EDIT: Why am I getting downvotes? I'm just looking for a discussion, is that a bad thing?
DrCyanide2 votesHow about those fun, interesting things that replaces Crit for every non-marksman: Abilities.
Thresh Outta Fux1 votesHow about those fun, interesting things that replaces Crit for every non-marksman: Abilities.
I nearly spit out my pb&j. Props and +1.
Paroe2 votes@thread Crit doesnt need to be removed entirely, just as a core mechanic. Tryndamere, shaco, jhin, rengar, everyone with non-external crit is balanced WITHOUT crit on items.
Because of power creep, marksmen dont need crit at all. We could give them 25AD on every zeal item, make essence reaver actual mana leech with 20% CDR, and make infinity edge a 20% bonus AD increase. Likely with this kind of a change attack speed on zeal items would increase by 5~10% but otherwise they would be as they are sans crit.
25AD, 12% attack speed= 
(1175)+225g (1400g)
25AD, 50% attack speed, 7% movespeed = (1400g) (600g) + 800g
25AD, 45% attack speed, 5% movespeed = (1400g)
(800g) +700g
25AD, 55% attack speed, 5% movespeed = (1400g) (600g) + 800g
25AD, 40% attack speed, 5% movespeed = (1400g) (800g) +700g
100AD. Unique passive: Increases bonus AD by 20% = (875) 
(1300) +1125g3500g 
85AD, 20% cooldown reduction, 10% mana leech = (1300) 
(1100) 
(900)+200g
Edit; i forgot to say what these changes accomplish.
They dramatically increase attack speed (from 1.51.8 to 2.02.3 based on runes and base attack speed) and add a minimum of 80AD to a marksmans full build. Paired with the higher attack speed, it comes out to a fair and balanced DPS that doesnt lead to huge snowballs and roflstomps. It replaces the non-linear power spike of crit with LINEAR, predictable power spikes that will improve interactions between non-marksmen champions and marksmen champions.
Rathar Dashing1 votesReally good ideas! I was thinking they could add a new item (similar to something like Bramble Vest) that gave ADCs the effect of Manasteal (name pending) which allowed them to steal X% of the damage they deal in auto attacks into mana, then have that build into ER which would then give AD, CDR, Lifesteal AND Manasteal. You could also just make more mana options like that available in for it's own build path, and boom you could fix the "every mage builds 
into 
" problem.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ym6xEsdc,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-10-04T23:11:52.048+0000)
Really good ideas! I was thinking they could add a new item (similar to something like Bramble Vest) that gave ADCs the effect of Manasteal (name pending) which allowed them to steal X% of the damage they deal in auto attacks into mana, then have that build into ER which would then give AD, CDR, Lifesteal AND Manasteal. You could also just make more mana options like that available in for it's own build path, and boom you could fix the "every mage builds
Riot is loathe to add new items because they have a store item limit that they cant get rid of without rebuilding dang near the entire game. Its why they opt to nerf and rework existing items instead of adding new ones to bolster other playstyles.
Rathar Dashing1 votesHuh. Good to know.
Sightless661 votesThat is 100% bullshit. He pulled that little factoid right out his ass.
Rathar Dashing1 votesOh... okay then...
Rathar Dashing1 votesAlso forgot to mention that I agree 100% with your comments on champions with in-kit-crits. Except maybe Yasuo.
Paroe1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ym6xEsdc,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2017-10-04T23:13:22.871+0000)
Also forgot to mention that I agree 100% with your comments on champions with in-kit-crits. Except maybe Yasuo.
Ashe: She slows more the lower health you are and her first basic attack against an enemy deals increased damage (but doesnt slow) Yasuo: 10-30% increase to bonus AD at levels 6/11/16
"Double crit" is a neccessity of him being melee - by removing crit and increasing his AD, you achieve the same effect.
DemonBoneJangles1 votespersonally if critical strike was removed from the game in all forms (this includes lethality which is essentially an armor ignore stat)
id like to see new types of damage or the addition of elemental effects
Burning targets take more damage from Magical attacks and abilities but less from physical attacks and abilities
Shocked targets are more susceptible to stuns, roots, and slows
Chilled targets take more damage from physical attacks and abilities but less from magical damage and abilities
Grounded targets cannot use movement related abilities and spells (as current with Cassiopeia)
Envenomed targets cannot heal damage without returning to base or receiving healing from an ally (life steal works but doesn't remove the envenomed effect)
Poisoned targets take damage over time as normal
Flight effected targets can pass over minions but are considered airborne for the purpose of abilities and effects (watch out for yasuo)
this would increase team dynamics because then you could itemize to counter the enemy team instead of just saying ok well we have X champ vs X champ so we win by default
Rathar Dashing1 votesHonestly I'd be 100% on-board with replacing IE with like 4-8 interesting elemental items with on-hit effects, potentially synergizing with each other the way normal crit does now. Not necessarily your ideas but things like Fire: Your basic attacks deal 10% more damage and an additional 10% damage over time. or Earth: Your basic attacks deal 5% true damage. Wind: Your basic attacks increase your attack speed by 5% (up to 25%) etc.
Khristophoros1 votesIt can be replaced with non-RNG damage increase to autoattacks.
New stat - Potency (or something) Your basic attack deals +1% damage per point up to a cap of +100%.
All the crit chances on items are replaced with Potency.
IE's new unique passive: Your Potency cap is now 150 and all Potency bonuses are increased by 50%.
Stupid and simple. We don't need something fancy we just need something not RNG.
Rathar Dashing1 voteseh, I thought of that one myself and it just seems cheesy. I'd rather give auto attacks more interesting effects like the kinda stuff Phage or PD gives.
Khristophoros2 votes[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ym6xEsdc,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-10-04T22:21:57.287+0000)
eh, I thought of that one myself and it just seems cheesy. I'd rather give auto attacks more interesting effects like the kinda stuff Phage or PD gives.
Then we have an entire new thing to balance and it takes like a whole preseason just to get it working correctly. We could get another new system instead and just make the crit non-RNG because we know it'll be relatively balanced.
Sightless661 voteseh, I thought of that one myself and it just seems cheesy.
Why? It's the exact same expected dps, just without rng. What's cheesy about that?
I'd rather give auto attacks more interesting effects like the kinda stuff Phage or PD gives.
That's way more complicated. It could theoretically be a worthwhile project for a season, but it's not what we need to do to fix crit.
Rathar Dashing1 votesI don't think changing the RNG to flat damage would work, because that just lets those who already abuse crit keep doing what they do with less risk than before. If anything that would be a buff to crit, because in most situations it would be better to just rush IE for the huge flat damage increase rather than the current 1/5 chance to deal high damage. If you went with this approach, you'd have to tune down the numbers, or something similar.
Again I'm not looking for a band-aid "adc broken right now must nerf all crit" solution, I'm looking for something that's more fun to work with than RNG, and provides multiple choices for ADC rather than "build crit; do more damage"
items like Phantom Dancer, Runaan's Hurricane and even Rapid Fire Cannon all have interesting passives that are not particularly bad for gameplay, it's just the fact that they are mostly gated by critical strike chance, and thus force ADCs into very specific builds rather than give them the choice to opt for a PD+3 Lifesteal items to make an extremely safe yet lower-power build, or a Black Cleaver+ Runaan's Hurricane build that allows an ADC to be an armor shredder for his physical damage top laner or fed jungler.
I'm looking for an interesting way to spice up build paths, and with the new runes giving us LOTS of choice as to how we want to play our champions, I'm hoping season 8-9 look into creating more items to give champions more options.
Sightless661 votesIf anything that would be a buff to crit, because in most situations it would be better to just rush IE for the huge flat damage increase rather than the current 1/5 chance to deal high damage
No, it really wouldn't be. That's a misunderstanding. The thing is, probability predicts that the number of times you have results more beneficial than the norm should happen at exactly the same rate as results less common than the norm. Crit already uses Prng, and fights take more than 5 autoattacks, so the chances of getting a result vastly different from the median result are extremely low with the current system.
Essentially, the best way to play around crit currently is to predict that it will give you the expected dps. Changing crit to actually do that all the time instead of the vast majority changes changes nothing about balance.
Again I'm not looking for a band-aid "adc broken right now must nerf all crit" solution,
Your initial complaint was about how it was RNG, and it was a powerspike. That was what you were asking for, and that proposed solution is a way to address the RNG portion with affecting balance.
Again I'm not looking for a band-aid "adc broken right now must nerf all crit" solution, I'm looking for something that's more fun to work with than RNG, and provides multiple choices for ADC rather than "build crit; do more damage"
Then you're looking at something that will take a hell of a lot more effort than adjusting items. Your idea of a PD + lifesteal build will not work in this game so long as AD carries offer by kit nothing else but damage. There is no point in a build that safe unless it is literally unkillable. An armor shredder build is similarly not going to offer anything unless it offers a huge amount of damage as well.
If you remove crit, all that will happen is that the higest dps build that doesn't use crit will become the next best thing.
Rathar Dashing1 votesYour initial complaint was about how it was RNG, and it was a powerspike. That was what you were asking for, and that proposed solution is a way to address the RNG portion with affecting balance.
I think you misunderstood what I meant. The RNG thing isn't an actual complaint of mine, just one I know a lot of people have. Getting that 1/5 crit feels rewarding, but less rewarding than say landing a skillshot that took skill to land. Also, what I meant by powerspike is that an ADC who buys IE and SS/Runaan's instantly spikes in damage way past any other character at two items, simply because of the interaction with critical hits.
you're looking at something that will take a hell of a lot more effort than adjusting items.
Again, like I said, I'm not asking for a quick and easy solution. I'm looking for something that might take effort, but would add a lot of diversity and options to the game. If someone wants to play their ADC as someone who can build defensively to help them last longer in fights against other ADCs, or as someone who didn't win lane but still wants to help by buying armor shredding items, then they should be encouraged to play how they want to play.
AlienPrimate1 votesThis is not a salt post about Yasuo, Tryndamere, or just crit in general. I honestly find crit to be fairly balanced by probability but on occasion it can sway a fight in favor of one person or another when statistically the fight should have gone the other way. Here is how I would go about it as a designer. I would change it so all crit chance is changed with halved values of increased basic attack damage.
Crit runes -> increased basic attack damage
+5% basic attack damage
+10% basic attack damage
+70 Attack damage +10% basic attack damage +10% CDR
Unique passive - gain cdr equal to 10% of your bonus AD from other items up to 20% at 200 bonus AD.
Unique passive - gain mana equal to 5% of the physical damage you deal.
Changed to
+100 Attack damage
Unique passive - Basic attacks deal 50% more damage (multiplicative with all other bonuses)
+45% attack speed +15% Basic attack damage +5% movement speed
Same passives
+30% attack speed +15% Basic attack damage +5% movement speed
Same passives
Unique passive - wind's fury - fire up to 2 bolts to attack nearby enemies when you attack which deal 25% of your basic attack damage and apply on hit effects
Passive - deal 15 bonus damage on hit
Passive - Energized
Unique passive - Shiv lightning - when full energized, your next basic attack does 50-120 bonus magic damage to up to 5 nearby enemies. Bonus basic attack damage applies to Shiv lightning.
Unique passive - +5% movement speed
60 armor 500 health -10% effect of bonus basic attack damage from the attacker
Unique passive - cold steel - When hit by basic attack's the attacker's attack speed is reduced by 15%
Unique active - Reduce bonus attack damage stats on all nearby enemies by 50% and slow them by 35% for 4 seconds. (90 second cd)
Passive - Tryndamere gains 8 Fury each time he lands a basic attack, and 10 Fury each time he kills an enemy. After not dealing or receiving damage for 8 seconds, Tryndamere loses 5 Fury per second.
Tryndamere's basic attacks deal 0.2% more damage per point of fury that he has up to 20% at 100 fury.
Passive: intent - all bonuses to Yasuo's basic attack damage are doubled (up to 50%) but his basic attacks and Steel Tempest respectively deal 80% damage.
This means that if he builds a Phantom Dancer first item, he will get +30% basic attack damage and if he builds Statikk Shiv second item it will give him +20% basic attack damage because he has reached the 50% limit. Further +basic attack damage items will get their normal value after this.
Only including the relevant stuff here so we don't get a novel.
Passive - instead of critical striking on every fourth hit, he will deal 100% increased damage. This bonus multiplies with +basic attack damage.
His basic attacks do 25% reduced damage.
He gains 2-40% bonus attack damage based on level
He gains half of his bonus basic attack damage as attack damage.
He gains 25% bonus attack damage per 100% attack speed.
Passive - attacks against frosted enemies deal 10% more damage stacking multiplicative with bonus basic attack damage.
W - base damage is doubled to 40/70/100/130/160 and it gets full effect from bonus basic attack damage
All other champion abilities that grant critical strike chance instead grant +100% bonus attack damage additively with items.
These include
.
Abilities that can crit like
instead have bonus basic attack damage apply to those abilities.
Rathar Dashing1 votesWhere did this come from? It seems super old and out of date.
AlienPrimate1 votesThis was my solution to removing crit. Look at the quoted name.
Rathar Dashing1 votesI saw that, I was asking where you posted it, as it seems to be a response to someone else's thread.
AlienPrimate1 votesHere is a tip for the future. When there is a quote, click on the name of the person who was quoted and it will bring you to the post/comment.
Rathar Dashing1 votesOh, okay. Thanks.
Also I think i probably should have named my thread something similar to avoid the random downvotes I got.
