Does anyone actually use Spellbinder?

Rathar Dashing·Jan 6, 2019·22 votes·15,600 views

In case you don't know what I'm talking about, it's this thing: I've seriously never seen this get used, ever, not even in a Nexus Blitz game.

I'm just curious, does anyone out there actually use it? If so, who do you use it on and why do you use it?

EDIT: So far I'm seeing a lot of Vel'Koz, Vlad, and Diana responses. Makes sense for Vel'Koz since he doesn't need to buy MPen, and for Vlad because he doesn't need to buy mana. Makes a little bit of sense for Diana because she's burst centric and regains mana based on AP so this item would give her a lot of power for cheap.

107 Comments

Done25Jan 6, 201922 votes

item 3020 item 3165 item 3285 item 3089 item 3135 item 3157 Exactly where are you going to fit it in?

Rathar DashingJan 6, 20192 votes

Well you could possible take out Morello for it, or Zhonya's if you don't need it for the active and armor.

Done25Jan 6, 20199 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TxjgvZrs,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-01-06T20:55:49.577+0000)

Well you could possible take out Morello for it, or Zhonya's if you don't need it for the active and armor.

Then you'll die in 0.5 seconds when Zed sneezes on you without that extra HP and armor/active.

PlsBuffMyMainJan 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Exactly where are you going to fit it in?

Vladimir what is a Luden's echo?

Vivial MoonJan 7, 20191 votes

Luden echo is amazing on vlad

ThefrostyvikingJan 7, 20191 votes

Kind of wasted stats tho arent there?

Rocket belt makes a lot more sense in that regard, cheap item nonetheless nothing is wasted, even the active is good.

SERBlAN SEXGOD Jan 7, 20192 votes

"Rocket belt" on Vlad is a bronze trap

ThefrostyvikingJan 7, 20193 votes

The guy with the most games on him in high elo in Korea is a grandmaster and he rushes it every single game from what i can see.

Nr 2 and 3 is a master and a diamond respectively both build it first almost every game as well, source is OP.GG.

Furthermore lolalytics seems to suggest that proto belt is bought in 86% of the vlad games in masters+.

Somehow for a noob trap its quite effetive at having the top 1% of players fall for it too.

Vivial MoonJan 14, 20191 votes

You take luden in vlad for the cdr. You always try to max cdr on vlad and I mean always!! Taking luden alone let’s you get to 45% without buying cdr boots which is abolsoutley insane. Originally you have to rush kindle gem into time to get to max cdr, but with a single buy of luden, your power pike is huge.

ThefrostyvikingJan 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You take luden in vlad for the cdr. You always try to max cdr on vlad and I mean always!! Taking luden alone let’s you get to 45% without buying cdr boots which is abolsoutley insane. Originally you have to rush kindle gem into time to get to max cdr, but with a single buy of luden, your power pike is huge.

I looked it up and 86% of vlad players, his mains included, in masters+ are all building rocket belt first basically every game played.

A few exceptions but basically ....well 86%.

Heck even the "grandmasters" and challengers also do it from what i got at looking at the op.GG profiles displaying the most played in every region.

420DogJan 6, 201913 votes

mages or some ap assassins. you use it when you go to do a burst combo or when you are about 2 get in a crucial fight. Preferably you want it to be fully stacked before use but it is a later game and expensive item.

Just a few examples of champions id buy it for. Annie Evelynn Ekko Leblanc Lux Veigar Zoe Xerath

Rathar DashingJan 6, 20197 votes

But having to use 100 spells for it to get fully stacked really sucks. Plus, there are other AP items that grant the same kind of burst potential but do it better. Rabadon's gives more AP, Void Staff lets you get a bunch of penetration, and Morello is better at taking out squishy targets. It just doesn't seem to fit anywhere into their build.

420DogJan 6, 20193 votes

actually this gives more ap when you count the stacks and you also gain stacks from EVERYONE (enemy/allies/you) using spells. you generally buy it with rabadons.

Rathar DashingJan 6, 20192 votes

Sure it gives more AP, but like I said Void Staff and Morello give more damage since they buff the base damage of your abilities.

420DogJan 6, 20191 votes

you mean it gives them pen? Yeah it gives pen but it doesnt give as much damage as a full stacked spellbinder

Rathar DashingJan 6, 20194 votes

Spellbinder only gives 130 more AP over void staff, or 120 more than morello. And that's when it's activated at maximum stacks (which is a minimum once every 60 seconds). Against your average target with about 40 MR, void staff gives you an increase of damage of 13%, while morello gives you an increase of 12%. For 130 AP to be more valuable, it would have to increase your damage by over 13%, which it won't likely do even if you have high AP scaling. Furthermore, against targets with lower MR, or those who you've already lowered the MR of with sorc shoes, morello becomes much stronger, a target with 15 MR after reductions takes 15% more damage from morello. Meanwhile, void staff just keeps increasing in effectiveness the more MR a target has, giving you a 25% increase to damage at 100 MR and a 40% increase to damage at 250 MR.

Somebody Love MeJan 6, 20197 votes

{quoted}

mages or some ap assassins. you use it when you go to do a burst combo or when you are about 2 get in a crucial fight. Preferably you want it to be fully stacked before use but it is a later game and expensive item.

Just a few examples of champions id buy it for.

I see it on Vladimir Diana Evelynn Nidalee Syndra Annie

2Charmnot2CharmJan 6, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Just a few examples of champions id buy it for.

I will never touch spellbinder as Lelanc, Zoe, Lux, Veigar.

Veigar gets enough AP as it is with his passive already.

The other 3 would rather have items that are effective immediately, and even if they did want it only Zoe has the cooldowns to stack it herself. Leblanc and lux can't just be blowing their CC/mobility on cooldown because they need those spells to be ready at all times for when they see an opening to pick someone off the map.

Since they can't stack it themselves they need teammates to help them, problem with that. Leblanc and other assassins rather be on the side lanes after laning phase is over looking to kill whoever comes or draw attention.

Only one assassin that might like it is eve because 1. her Q stacks it quickly and 2. she is a jungler, she can get away with blowing cooldowns because she will not be punished for it outside of being invaded.

QmegaSquadVeigarJan 7, 20191 votes

Spellbinder is almost completely useless on Veigar

The Highest NoonJan 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Spellbinder is almost completely useless on Veigar

You say that until you use it and literally just press R and the ADC is dead

QmegaSquadVeigarJan 8, 20191 votes

??? XD

EDIT: Okay, now that I'm on my PC, I'll explain why is it so bad. First of all it's only raw AP which isn't that good on Veigar (120 AP or 168 AP with Deathcap isn't as good as 70 AP + 40% magic pen from void or 25 + 15 magic pen from oblivion orb. Veigar naturally gains a lot of AP (about 350 at around 30 minutes with just his passive) which means that it's better for him to invest in either survivability or something that gives him a powerful spike, not raw AP. It gives no cdr or defensive stats either, so it's definitely worse than Dead Man's Plate or any other item really.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

??? XD

EDIT: Okay, now that I'm on my PC, I'll explain why is it so bad. First of all it's only raw AP which isn't that good on Veigar (120 AP or 168 AP with Deathcap isn't as good as 70 AP + 40% magic pen from void or 25 + 15 magic pen from oblivion orb. Veigar naturally gains a lot of AP (about 350 at around 30 minutes with just his passive) which means that it's better for him to invest in either survivability or something that gives him a powerful spike, not raw AP. It gives no cdr or defensive stats either, so it's definitely worse than Dead Man's Plate or any other item really.

I don't see it, especially when he has pretty good AP scaling on his abilities. When you're one-shotting everything with one ability, that kinda means something.

QmegaSquadVeigarJan 8, 20192 votes

My point is that it's not worth it compared to other options.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

My point is that it's not worth it compared to other options.

I don't see how 280 AP isn't worth it?

QmegaSquadVeigarJan 8, 20192 votes

Most of the time it's an overkill anyway. You're just wasting the damage most of the time, meanwhile you could've invested into more cdr or defense to not get forced to back after getting hit by 2 abilities.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Most of the time it's an overkill anyway. You're just wasting the damage most of the time, meanwhile you could've invested into more cdr or defense to not get forced to back after getting hit by 2 abilities.

From who? Why? I'd rather have big damage numbers and destroy everybody instead of building defenses that I won't even use because survivability is the b&b of my gameplay anyway.

QmegaSquadVeigarJan 8, 20191 votes

Idk what's the difference between dealing 2200 and 2600 damage if they have 1800 hp, they still die.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Idk what's the difference between dealing 2200 and 2600 damage if they have 1800 hp, they still die.

They do, but they're not the only players on the enemy team. Then there's the off-chance that they build more health.

Lesson is, if you have a lead you push the lead. If the enemy closes the gap it's already too late to fix things.

QmegaSquadVeigarJan 8, 20191 votes

Spellbinder is bad, end of the story. I'm not gonna argue with you.

Somebody Love MeJan 6, 20199 votes

Certain AP burst champs rush it because it's cheap with a lot of AP. And movespeed is never a bad stat. It's kinda like old Ludens

hhaavviikkJan 6, 20195 votes

item so bad that even on URF with extremely low cooldowns it still isn't bought 99% of the time

ValyrianBladeJan 6, 20195 votes

I think the problem with it is that it lacks an identity...

It makes a LOT of sense as a first item rush. When you're on 1 or 2 items, that +80AP bonus from the active makes a HUGE difference in your pool of AP. That's basically a 30-45% upgrade to your AP (and hence damage). It's like temporarily being 1700g ahead of your opponent (two blasting wands) - again a huge amount when you're only at 1 to 1.5 items.

However, you need to stack it - which takes so much time in lane phase since you're not spamming spells and don't have teamfights everywhere for it to count everyone else's spells. And don't kid yourself, you're not spamming spells because you rushed item 3907 and therefore don't have item 3802 and have no mana to spam spells.

So consider the alternative: build it 3rd or 4th item. Except that makes no sense - if you want raw AP, item 3089 does SO much more. Likewise item 3135 item 3165 item 3151 item 3157 etc... all offer a similar amount of power that is always available, rather than requiring a lot of buildup.

+80AP (1700g worth) isn't that big of a deal when you have 10k total gold (17%). Opposed to when you have 3400g (50%).

So it should be an early game snowball item, but you can't effectively use it at that point. It's effectively used late game, but the bonus from it matters so much less at that point.

Which is ultimately why you see some Vlads run it (because they don't need mana) and otherwise it doesn't get built.

0 HogapuJan 6, 20192 votes

I rush it on Diana , especially for the flat AP + flat move speed. It is also strong at picking champions with the movement speed burst

LarrietJan 6, 20192 votes

I use it.

I also don't see people building it, but it's a good item for basically any mage if you don't need something situational ( item 3165 item 3135 item 3151 item 3157 ). The burst of speed is awesome on battle mages; and the AP buff is awesome on any mage, especially burst mages. If it's unpopular, that isn't an indication that it's bad!

ilikecookies1Jan 6, 20191 votes

eh i use it in 3's cause you know ya got the upgraded rabbadon item 3090 XD but i use it with karthus or akali

Rathar DashingJan 6, 20192 votes

Ah, that would make sense since wooglet's frees up an item slot. I don't play much TT but that would make sense.

FullmuteAll playJan 6, 20191 votes

I was thinking about using it on Cassiopeia and Ryze ,but never actually tried

SéanceJan 6, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I was thinking about using it on and ,but never actually tried

try it, but its not worth it if you don't use the active. Its quite strong.

Genghis KhatJan 6, 20191 votes

Katarina item 3146 item 3020 item 3089 item 3157 item 3135 item 3165

Rathar DashingJan 6, 20191 votes

You could probably take out Morello for spellbinder, since you already have gw in your kit.

Genghis KhatJan 6, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TxjgvZrs,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2019-01-06T21:40:52.924+0000)

You could probably take out Morello for spellbinder, since you already have gw in your kit.

flat magic pen + 80 ap 300hp > 120 ap, useless movespeed since i can dash2 screens anyway, 3rd active that is just horrificly bland and unfun.

The Highest NoonJan 7, 20191 votes

120 AP + 100 more on active? Who's not using this thing when they can? The problem is that this item isn't a core item--it's extra damage after you've already built a champion's core, then it'd come after you get a hat. The general idea is that you'll only get it when a game lasts longer than it should.

Rathar DashingJan 7, 20191 votes

It's only +80 on the active, and other items give more damage and don't need to be activated.

The Highest NoonJan 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TxjgvZrs,comment-id=00280000,timestamp=2019-01-07T20:06:28.725+0000)

It's only +80 on the active, and other items give more damage and don't need to be activated.

What other items are there that give up to 200AP?

Rathar DashingJan 7, 20191 votes

Rabadon's gives much more, and MPen amplifies your damage more than a little extra AP will.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TxjgvZrs,comment-id=0028000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-07T23:21:29.754+0000)

Rabadon's gives much more, and MPen amplifies your damage more than a little extra AP will.

If 80 is "a little extra", you mean. And if you already have a Rabadons, that +200 becomes 280 so I mean

What are you even talking about at this point rofl

Rathar DashingJan 8, 20191 votes

When you already have 500 AP, the difference in AP between Morello/Void Staff and Spellbinder becomes very insignificant, especially when not activated. The amplification in damage gained from magic penetration far outweighs the AP difference. Maybe if you actually sat down and thought for a second before typing "rofl" you'd realize that.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TxjgvZrs,comment-id=002800000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T02:10:15.709+0000)

When you already have 500 AP, the difference in AP between Morello/Void Staff and Spellbinder becomes very insignificant, especially when not activated. The amplification in damage gained from magic penetration far outweighs the AP difference. Maybe if you actually sat down and thought for a second before typing "rofl" you'd realize that.

Which only matters if the enemy team actually builds mr

r o f l

Rathar DashingJan 8, 20191 votes

Actually, the less MR they build the more valuable flat penetration is, like you get from Morello. With Sorc Shoes against someone with 38.5 MR, the usual maximum base for ranged characters, Void Staff gives you a 17% increase to damage, which not only affects your AP but your base damages as well.

The Highest NoonJan 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TxjgvZrs,comment-id=00280000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T03:22:28.376+0000)

Actually, the less MR they build the more valuable flat penetration is, like you get from Morello. With Sorc Shoes against someone with 38.5 MR, the usual maximum base for ranged characters, Void Staff gives you a 17% increase to damage, which not only affects your AP but your base damages as well.

Is that 17% from MR better than 300 AP though?