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@Riot: Max HP dmg on ults......Evelynn where?

Ðane··47 votes·4,161 views

So all these new champs and reworks and true dmg/max hp dmg is just getting thrown around, yet you gut the living hell out of AP Evelynn (her intended playstyle) and her dmg AND strip her max hp on her ult.

What gives? Serious question as I just don't understand at all anymore the direction the game is going with new vs old champs vs Evelynn -yes, her specifically. Give us back her assassin tag; give us back her AP tag; give us back Evelynn.

I am sorry, but do not go with "but her AD blah blah"...no. She was and always been intended to be played as AP, so if that is the route taken here, then AP Trist and Yi get a reintroduction as well. Variants are just that...variants, but they are NOT the primary roll and neither is AD bruiser Evelynn. Give us back her AP style and her max hp dmg on ult, so she can actually kill someone with it. I am pretty sure no one honestly cares about that shield or slow as those of us that played her from the start never had it and works just fine. Hell, make it pain and suffering again so we heal, but do NOT keep giving new and older reworked champs max hp dmg while just leaving her AP assassin style in its current state.

TL;DR: Why are champs getting max hp % dmg when it was stripped from Evelynn's kit for...'reasons'? Put it back on her ult with a crappy ratio, and let her be allowed to actually do her INTENDED job once again.

62 Comments

ModAttysu The Poro17 votes

Bumping because Rito decides to comment on everything but intelligent conversation.

PS: I agree with your logic.

Ðane7 votes

I just don't understand Riot's logic anymore when it comes to certain champs: let's give away kits to other champs or make new ones with those parts, but leave the gutted champs in the dust.

ModAttysu The Poro5 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Peeping Tahm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YiiVYtdY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-21T19:57:11.317+0000)

I just don't understand Riot's logic anymore when it comes to certain champs: let's give away kits to other champs or make new ones with those parts, but leave the gutted champs in the dust.

I don't either. I feel like they might hit Eve with an update and I'm in my head screaming "NO SHE DOESN'T NEED ANOTHER REMAKE OR ANOTHER UPDATE LEAVE HER ALONE YOU BASTARDS"

Jamnon2 votes

Their logic: LC$ big money plays.

Ðane1 votes

and they honestly could have it with Eve popping out of her LIMITED stealth with a stun on the carry with possibly a ravage kill into an ult on the support or someone else to make a 4v5 into a 4v3.

Koechophe1 votes

The problem is, with the current jungle there is almost nothing you can do to ward against Eve's ganks, which means that if they're powerful, she's extremely toxic. Riot needs to release the mandrake ward (stealth detection built in) so that there's counterplay, and then make eve stronger.

For a more in depth explanation, see here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EELIw4LI-in-her-current-iteration-eve-will-never-be-allowed-to-be-strong

Salidfingers1 votes

or maybe make pink wards invis like they used to.

DynamiteGazelle1 votes

Riot hasn't commented on an Evelynn thread since they changed her W passive. She's been changed in 2 patches since then but they never respond to any threads about her :P

ModAttysu The Poro1 votes

{quoted}

Riot hasn't commented on an Evelynn thread since they changed her W passive. She's been changed in 2 patches since then but they never respond to any threads about her :P

Which frustrates me. TBH I just started playing Eve recently, and I love her, but RITO STOP RUINING HER.

misfortunas5 votes

I agree. This is it Riot. You GUTTED her Q damage, you messed up her e, her ult is basicly worthy of an autoattack lvl 6 when it comes to dmg, you removed dfg, you nerfed lich bane. And after all that time Eve was in a decent place again after runeglaive and her decent q dmg but you fixed that immediatly. It's like you don't want her to be an assasin, a champion. This is ridicilous. Get rid of the shield, get rid of the slow, let her ult do meaninful damage and give it a better ratio. Evelynn is NOT a bruiser, Evelynn is an assasin. Release the mandrake ward already and let her live for once.

DynamiteGazelle1 votes

Don't forget the removal of an actually useful W passive with a crappy reset passive on an ability that ALREADY HAS A RESET MECHANIC!

Krevik1 votes

Evelynn is one of the biggest thematic failures at the moment. By way of illustration, which one of these should be built full AP, and which one should be a bruiser? Exactly.

Celeste Benal3 votes

She already does a crap-tonne of damage on her ult. Just las night I chunked 3 champs for 50% of their total with one ult. Pretty sure I had Luden's, RuneGlaive, and Zhonya's. And magic pen boots.

Ðane4 votes

i feel that you didn't really read what i posted. Also, if you did 50% of their dmg, you flat out just ran at them to ult. This leads me to believe they were afk or /dancing as the moment they saw you (which they will before u hit ult range), they SHOULD have turned and flattened ya as AP.

Back on topic: she had max hp % before, and, now, more and more champs are getting max hp %, yet Eve is the exception to her own ability that was gutted. How is this exactly fair is the question?

Durzaka3 votes

Fiora's ult also isnt an AoE. It is a single target ability.

But by all means, lets destroy the game and give Eve back her Max HP nuking ult from god.

Saianna2 votes

lets destroy the game

I guess you haven't heard that Riot implemented pink wards like... 10 years ago? Try them!

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Pink wards can only do so much and won't do anything at all pre-level 4 which is when eve starts her ganking spree. Unless you want me to go support item plus pink or long sword plus a pink as an AD top laner/mid it will not save me from her early ganks. That and she can just kill your ward and gank later when there isn't one.

The Loveless1 votes

dfg is gone, relax

windwolf7772 votes

つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF AP EVE AND YI (And I guess trist as well)

Ðane2 votes

LoL...that's cute....

windwolf7771 votes

Sorry. I couldn't resist. But what's cute? The giff diretide meme, me wanting AP Yi back, saying Trist as an after thought, or a mix of all of the above?

DynamiteGazelle2 votes

Hey, 15% current health is nothing to scoff at.. It's so impactful that it needs to have a really high cooldown too. And dat slow? OP

/sarcasm

NullDragon2 votes

Eve's ult is an instant AOE. Fiora's ult is a single target damage skill which requires her to autoattack four times from all four directions.

Fiora also doesn't have permanent invisibility.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Thank you. If eve gets percent max health damage back it won't be fun to deal with. I loved it before as an adc or someone squishy and barely making it out of a fight with 20% health just to have an eve ult me from nowhere for the rest of my health. Or if you tried to catch old ap glass cannon eve out it didn't matter because she would ult your entire team for 35+% max health and shield for 1500 to survive the ambush and just let her team play clean up.

As for people comparing the 2 ults I will second this by saying eve ult when it was max had a 25% base as well which is over double Fiora ults. And Eve ult has a respectable range as opposed to melee on Fiora (the ult itself isn't melee but to do anything with it you have to go melee them).

NullDragon1 votes

Fiora's ult is also BLOODY HARD TO HIT.

You have to walk around to all four directions on a person, instead of just being all 'oh click there goes your health'. Just the simple act of running away to defend one of your remaining vital locations can ruin Fiora's ult. Also it's melee.

Fiora's only slow is on her W(survivability skill) and E(melee range auto) as well. Fiora can't hit more than one vital strike(or two with her ult) in a fight without an opportunity for counterplay with positioning.

Armstice2 votes

Eve has nearly a 55% win-rate right now and no one even knows what to build on her yet in the current state of the game.

I think you will be ok.

Koechophe1 votes

55% win rate? Uh, no. Not even remotely.

Normals win ratio is hovering at about 48% Ranked win ratio is hovering about 50%, even at the highest levels. http://www.lolking.net/champions/evelynn#statistics

And that's BEFORE they take 1/5th of the damage away from her Q as well as gut runeglaive.

Salidfingers1 votes

I wonder sometimes where people get there info.

Heckin Support1 votes

Riot has a problem. They want "diversity" but they want it how they want it. Evelynn as well as some other characters (Elise) are having a giant identity crisis. Are they assassins? Tank? Off-Tanks? No one knows. Riot needs to make a decision and roll with it 100% instead of trying to make "diverse" champions. Chose a roll you want these champions to be an stick with it. No one wants Eve to be an assassin early game and off tank late. They want a pure ap stealthy assassin. And riot is not giving us that. People want an ap duelest who can easily 1v1, but instead we get a tanky spider who if we build any damage we're too squishy to even use that damage to it's full potential.

Tldr: Riot needs to start making some decisions and sticking with them.

Saianna2 votes

Riot has stoped making "diverse*" champions long time ago.

Right now they prefer champions with only 1 route to play.

*By diverse i mean champions that could be successful both as AD or AP.

Look at all old champions that were reworked: AP Yi gone AP Sion gone AP trist gone

In current Sions & Tristanas case they could increase AP ratios, but nooooooooooooooooooooo, Can't make them diverse, god forbid. They have to be AD or nothing else.

Champion Skin2 votes

They have even nerfed things like Renger W AP ratio... Rekasai burrowed Q AP ratio...

Saianna1 votes

Yeah Yeah!

That's what i'm talking about. Riot removes diversity and replaces it with fake one, where your only options to be viable/usable/playable is to follow what they want.

Fried Noob2 votes

The reason things like AP yi, AP sion, and AP trist are gone is because they were absolute bullshit to play against. Yi healed for stupid amounts of damage and dealt stupid amounts of damage with very little counterplay. Ap sion had a point and click 90% (if I recall correctly) ap skill and his shield scaled by the same amount, meaning early game stepping anywhere need sion when he had mana meant your ho magically disappeared. Trist was less bullshit, but two point and click high scaling ap abilities and her resetting jump with high ap was fucking annoying.

Koechophe2 votes

Okay, what about AP ezreal, AP kogmaw and AP janna? Why did those playstyles get gutted?

Also, AP sion wasn't much of a thing, he had 2 abilites with high mana costs and that was really it. Even pre-rework, ap sion was barely played. With his current kit, Ap ratios would actually make for a really interesting off-build. I don't know why they didn't just leave AP ratios on trist, they would make sense with her current kit. And AP yi was stupid. We all agree on that one. But even now, he can't chain reset, it's only 70%, so AP yi would be decently balanced atm.

Fried Noob1 votes

If you ever played against an AP janna, you know why it got nerfed. The ability to clear the wave instantly while preventing massive amounts of damage to towers and providing large team wide heals meant that the best you could do is hope the enemy janna was dumb, otherwise you couldn't kill her and couldn't push against her. Unless you're talking about runeglaive, AP Ez has gotten nothing but buffs as far as I can see in his changes. The only nerfs AP Kog has received is that his ult lost 50% of the bonus damage to champions which, if a kog is good, rarely misses so the nerf was warrented. While AP Sion was much of a thing, he was a huge pain in the ass early game after he got some ap. Who needs mana when his two ap abilities could basically kill you anyway? Also, I didn't have much issues with AP trist, especially after they changed her E so that only AAs set off the passive, but still, the burn from E and the raw burst from W and her ult meant that she could kill you very quickly and proceed to Goomba your entire team. Now, LB and other assassins also have heavy burst, so I didn't really care, but most of them don't have huge range, so I can see why it was removed.

Saianna1 votes

I'd love Evelynn to be turned to her pre-rework state (how she was made).. But % max hp on ultimate should be at least good start.

Also don't forget to lower CD, cause 3 minutes for what it does is just... BADLY though trough

Ðane2 votes

I'm not gonna lie and say that i don't want it to go back that far as I don't want a positional on Ravage heh. Her passive needs to go and her stealth needs to go back onto her W a la Twitch's Q now. They could put the movespeed as her passive for all i care (although, I liked my shred more) as Siv's is; give back her stun (wishful thinking there) on resurfacing as Twitch gets a huge atk speed steriod, and put her to pain and suffering/single target nuke/AoE Nuke with crappy ratios.

I'm not even asking for abilities out of the realm of logic as we have Cho with a true dmg ult with a 1:1 ratio with a high base that cannot be mitigated or limited stealth with a buff to boot after coming out of it (Shaco gets ...180%? crit mod for coming out of stealth).

I just want some clarity on why max % dmg abilities are coming out of the walls, yet Evelynn is sitting on a damn near 3 min ult that cannot kill someone?

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I think Riot wants Evelynn to be played as an AD or Hybrid champion, I don't see a lot of reasons to ever play AP Evelynn over AD Evelynn unless you like just spamming a single ability more than a Cassiopeia late game with 40% CDR and doing relatively nothing else.

The changes won't have a huge effect on her clearing a whole lot, since at level 1 (and you usually obtain the following 2 abilities) she still has the same damage. And overall I don't think the changes will really hurt AD Evelynn that much, AD Evelynn used her Q for extra damage and it was really effective which is why I think Riot wanted to nerf her Q damage, so that AD Evelynn didn't have that extra damage and could just demolish anyone early game for small mistakes. I like how they gave her a stronger slow though, it helps her gank and it will be noticeably better in teamfighting situations, since Evelynn is terrible in teamfighting without her ultimate.

Overall the changes won't effect AD Evelynn that much, and maybe even a buff since AD Evelynn doesn't need her Q as much and It's just extra damage, however AP Evelynn is obviously significantly nerfed and hybrid builds are also nerfed a bit.

Ðane2 votes

See, that's the problem I'm having right now is that they are NOT coming out and making a stance on her position, yet they are nerfing her still. They made it pretty clear that ap yi, trist, gp, etc variants were not liked and gutted as a result. Now, in Eve's case, I have no idea which way to go, yet the variant for her is AD and her primary role of AP is just non-existent.

AFAIK, she still has the assy tag, yet still holds onto an ult that is meant for engagement?! I just don't understand.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I think for almost every change to a champion aside from like "Minion's Empowered Auto Attack Damage increased to 5 > 6 > 7 from 4.5 > 5.5 > 6" (not legit, just an example) needs to have a real reason for it, at least in the overall patch notes.

Riot has a tendency to just nerf, buff, or redirect a champions power and give almost no explanation aside from how the changes effect the champion

Ðane1 votes

"Duelist's Dance (Passive)

Fiora identifies Vitals on nearby enemy champions. Fiora will reveal a new Vital afte striking the last one, or after 15 seconds. When Fiora strikes a Vital, she deals 3 (+X)% of the target's maximum health in true damage,[...]

Grand Challenge (R)

Fiora reveals all four Vitals on the target champion, each dealing 12 (+X)% of the target's maximum health in true damage, [...]

i would rather lose 50% of my health against the old fiora and build armor so i only lose 20% than getting 48% of my max health in true damage and cant do shit.

--Just want to leave this here as proof that Eve deserves some real attention and her % dmg back. Look at this passive and ult on the 'new' fiora. You can't even build against it. Let me just say that i want Eve to get back her MAGIC hp % dmg, ie. that you can itemize against her -- plus, no DFG, so, although it would chunk someone, you can't do a full gib to someone like Vei's ult or even Cho's ult when he's built AP or Darius's Ult on 5 stack (which takes 0 time to ramp after the 20 min mark) or vayne's proc, which will be going off stupid fast after two items, etc etc.

Koechophe1 votes

I'm sorry, but this isn't a logical argument. Here's essentially what you're saying

-Because you're releasing a champion with the potential to deal % of max hp true damage provided they hit the target 4 times from all different angles, you should take a completely different champion who has stealth as well as a massive movespeed boost and give her AOE instant-cast shielding slowing nuke max health damage again.

I think eve needs work, but the argument you're making isn't very sound. That's like saying "Because vayne has true max % of health damage, Quinn should have more damage." Comparing apples to oranges.

Ðane1 votes

Me thinks you have zero idea of who Evelynn is/was. She already had %max hp dmg before this, and it was removed b/c it made an assy able to do her job. This really is apple to rotten apples as they just gave that dmg to another champ, yet it is TRUE dmg now instead of magic.

You bring up her current ult and dare to even mention the shield, heh: no one cares about the shield, and it MUST be used as an engagement spell rather than an assassin spell, ie. counterproductive to eve's kit; I understand what you are trying to say, but you completely wrong here as you are comparing a reworked champ to another reworked champ, and you do not know anything about Evelynn's older reworked kit. The apples are there my friend; i need you to bob for 'em to find out the actual information.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Requires for an assassin to do her job? Assassin's shouldn't be able to do 1/4 of an entire teams health with one button. Even after resists any non tank won't get anywhere higher than 40% reduction and saying the shield is useless is beyond me when it can break 1000 fairly easily. With Evelynn's current kit she can't have good numbers because it is super oppressive. Being completely immune to slows and having pseudo stealth makes her an adc's nightmare and with runeglaive and a huge ms steroid she can run at an adc and do over half their health with E+Q+auto the second she buys it. The only real counterplay to her is to just pink EVERYWHERE and hope to catch her. Oh and if you want to promote her as an assassin don't ask for max health damage since that will always promote tanky play due to free damage.

Vincent Lucius1 votes

The thing about the shield is that I think most Eve players would be happy to have it removed in exchange for her being able to assassinate people again. With percent health magic damage it can be built against. ADC players can get a hex drinker and a banshee's or spirit visage, both of which offer additional benefits for building them and one of which could completely nullify her ult unless Eve gets close enough to be collapsed upon in team fights or a team mate procs the shield.

It's true that her invisibility has been a problem, but there could be ways around that. Maybe scuttle could grant true sight when you get the crab god's blessing which would be a relatively small buff that would increase the importance of getting it. The poor little crab gets left alone for far too long sometimes and this would be a decent way to play against any champ with stealth while leaving those that don't have it well enough alone.

alfavhunter1 votes

AP eve was a problem when DFG was in game because she could deal a huge amount of damage that wasn't preventable. With DFG gone her ult should be returned to max Hp as even as Max HP it's not true damage, it can be counter built, and adc have viable build options to counter Magic damage without really losing damage, there are 2 AD MR items one has a passive shield, the other has an active cleanse, she wouldn't be op being given back her max hp damage on her ult, because there is more build paths for ad to counter it now and DFG is gone, which is what really made it op

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

AP Eve got gutted after recent rework because it was oppressive and lacked any form of counterplay. Her ult doing 25(+0.02AP)% max health at max rank go to absurd numbers and not having a cap against monsters made her able to steal baron and then kill an entire team with an over 1000 damage shield. Her identity makes no sense since her stealth, ult, and E all make her want to be a burst mage but the MS steroid along with AS on E and short cd on Q make her a sustained damage dealer. If they make her ult max damage again the numbers will probably be lowered a bit. In my opinion the better bandaid for the situation is to make it have a mundo cleaver like effect where it has to do AT LEAST X damage so you can at least kill someone with it.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

let me give you a brief explanation to why riot makes you frustrated

the game changes ... many things that were impossible to put in it before due to game breaking consequences are now handled by it and used by riot designers to make it more interesting

then there is riot updating champions ... loads of champions need updates ... i think that its more than 30% of the champion pool needing gameplay updates (or reworks relaunches etc ... gameplay updates most of the time thou)

riot cant update them all so they prioritize ... either they take a realy important project and do it for long or they take light projects and push them out faster

eve is a top tier challenge for rework ... many hard to solve problems so riot dodges the game and goes elwhere when they feel like it they will do it

but thats the thing ... riot is basicaly remaking their game from ground up and this is a pain in the ass work ... so its slow

lolipopevelynn1 votes

they took max HP off her ult because of her passive, and this was back when you could buy infinite invisible pink wards and have as many as u wanted on the map i believe.

even now its an outdated reason to nerf her passive. Riot just needs to fix there damn stealth detection in this game so they can stop nerfing her into the ground. maybe go the route of what HoTS is doing with there stealthed units. very easy to spot them if u pay attention, so easy that u dont need detection for them.

Dar Raksada1 votes

I think it was because of dfg back in the day when she got nerfed.

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