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I can distinctly remember the precise buff that put Vayne over the edge

For Carthage··1 votes·838 views

BoRK's distance increase.

Before she'd have to be within 300 units - generally a dangerous place to be, and it'd take her longer to catch people or it'd put her in a bad spot.

Now she rolls in, autos, slows you at 550 units, perma-chases you with her passive, and that's it.

If she's winning a fight, you can't escape.

But if she's losing a fight, it's BoRK, one E and a roll away and she's gone.

You basically turned her into the snowballingest champ in the game by requiring people to fight her or die trying to run, yet she's so effective at dueling that turning isn't even really an option so much as a "might as well just because". It's Akali all over again - she gets fed off of just finding people roaming.

Addition: To everybody pitching up the armor nerfs making her more prevalent of an ADC: she deals % health true damage.

Why would armor nerfs increase her viability more than her fellow ADC's, and why would that be her tipping point if she was already absurdly popular before the nerfs ever hit?

This also applies to the tank nerfs, and to the AD item buffs she wasn't prevalent until patches later. Please stop pitching out things that literally just helped the ADC role as a whole and not exclusively Vayne who seemingly went from "late-game hypercarry" to "roaming snowballing lane-bully" within a short span of time with the most logical deduction being that, since BoRK is arguably all she needs, it would be safe to say that an item uncommon on most other ADC's would have been responsible for her suddenly having relevance were it to be buffed.

Thank you for riding the logic express, have a pleasant day.

17 Comments

Cowgirl Ed3 votes

you forget the armor nerfs, the adc items buffs, the lane bullies nerfs, the tanks nerfs, etc

For Carthage1 votes

The ADC item buffs were way before that particular item got its buff, and she wasn't exactly prominent then. The lane bully nerfs didn't include Trist and Graves (at least not Graves completely. He had a power shift from long range poking with Q to having to bury his face in people, which he was doing anyway). The armor nerfs were almost negligible to her considering, you know, she deals true damage, so it mattered less to her than any other ADC. And the tank nerfs, again, didn't make her any more relevant than she was because, once again, true damage - which, and this part I didn't mention before, was based off of % health, so health nerfs basically meant about as much to her as Infinity Edge means to Veigar.

Summonerrr 12 votes

Those just brought her up to the edge. The BotRK range increase was the Leonidas SPARTAN KICK that threw her into the bottomless well of overloaded OP elderich abomination...

ScriptBrand2 votes

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend "over the edge" is in 43rd place? get over yourselves and learn to play

Marthian1 votes

5th place in ADC win rate @ 52.04%, highest play rate, it isn't a case of learn2play. Even the 3 ADCs above her are only a .70% variance (highest winrate "ADC" is Mordekaiser for obvious reasons.)

For Carthage1 votes

You're an idiot.

Not much else to say than that. You wouldn't understand if I explained it to you if you don't notice it already.

But, well, just to say that I at least tried, here goes:

She has a 37% playrate as an ADC. That means that 52% winrate is on some shaky ground since we can safely assume that 10-15% of those people don't even main Vayne, which would be where the primary amount of her losses come in.

She also has more kills on average than all other ADC's in that list, which usually means she's either better at kill-securing or better at dueling since she is far more likely to get a kill fighting 1v1. An ADC that is a fantastic duelist all the time isn't good since that means literally if she gets fed she just gets herself more fed off of catches. Now you have a hard snowballing champ that is the main source of damage for the entire enemy team that nobody can 1v1 and at a certain point you may not even be able to kill her as a group.

So since you're some kind of inbred stupid, I'm going to put it into simple words and make them big so you can read them and realize that they're important: THAT CHART IS A COLLECTION OF DATA MEANT TO BE TAKEN AND BROKEN DOWN AS A WHOLE. PICKING OUT ONE PARTICULAR LITTLE PIECE OF DATA THAT IS ALMOST IRRELEVANT IS LIKE SAYING "LEE SIN IS OP BECAUSE HE HAS 2 SKILLS IN ALL OF HIS BASIC ABILITY SLOTS. THAT'S MORE THAN MOST CHAMPS."

And if you're wondering why I'm being particularly sniping towards you, it's because you decided to just come in here with a cockwit tone and be completely wrong while saying the equivalent of "git gud". You look like a cockweasel.

ScriptBrand1 votes

dude do you have a small penis or something? chill the freak out. let me help you out, because you seem to be incredibly stupid. in the top right corner of that page i linked, it says the words "Platinum + Ranked"....so get your "safe to say they don't main vayne" shit out of here.

For Carthage1 votes

Well, we're going to add "naïve" as well as "stupid" onto the list of descriptive words I'd use for you.

I'm in Plat. I use Vayne. I don't main Vayne. Other people do the same thing. Know why other people do the same thing? Because she's an oppressively strong and reliable pick right now and if I'm going into a role that isn't my main role - as is entirely common if you get saddled with a role in solo-queue - then I'm going to pick what I can trust will give me the best shot in lane and play.

So yeah, I'm going to say I absolutely can say that even with it being Plat+, there are still people who don't main Vayne who still play Vayne and they're probably more often punished for doing it than in lower tiers even if they're going up against an actual ADC main. But I wouldn't expect somebody as dense as you to even consider that because you've already proven yourself a dumbass twice now.

By the way, it's just average size. But good job projecting your insecurity onto me, circle-jerk Sandy.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

I can distinctly remember the precise patch that put Vayne over the edge...

https://i.gyazo.com/961443289c50c1b8d6a58dcefa0861f4.png ...5.16

HentRex1 votes

This is why I like to play Taric into her, With and and that has some form of gap closer or cc to lay on top of mine. Found plenty of success against her. Taric is like PED's for his ADC.

howstheweather131 votes

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YZfumTmF,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-26T08:17:20.880+0000)

BoRK's distance increase.

Before she'd have to be within 300 units - generally a dangerous place to be, and it'd take her longer to catch people or it'd put her in a bad spot.

Now she rolls in, autos, slows you at 550 units, perma-chases you with her passive, and that's it.

If she's winning a fight, you can't escape.

But if she's losing a fight, it's BoRK, one E and a roll away and she's gone.

You basically turned her into the snowballingest champ in the game by requiring people to fight her or die trying to run, yet she's so effective at dueling that turning isn't even really an option so much as a "might as well just because". It's Akali all over again - she gets fed off of just finding people roaming.

Addition: To everybody pitching up the armor nerfs making her more prevalent of an ADC: she deals % health true damage.

Why would armor nerfs increase her viability more than her fellow ADC's, and why would that be her tipping point if she was already absurdly popular before the nerfs ever hit?

This also applies to the tank nerfs, and to the AD item buffs she wasn't prevalent until patches later. Please stop pitching out things that literally just helped the ADC role as a whole and not exclusively Vayne who seemingly went from "late-game hypercarry" to "roaming snowballing lane-bully" within a short span of time with the most logical deduction being that, since BoRK is arguably all she needs, it would be safe to say that an item uncommon on most other ADC's would have been responsible for her suddenly having relevance were it to be buffed.

Thank you for riding the logic express, have a pleasant day.

Lmao no. Adc main here I think you mean her scaling ad damage on her ultimate 30/50/70 ad damage at levels 6/11/16 respectively keep in mind Vaynes core items Bork PD LW and I.E that's not even 300 ad lol. Learn to counter play and get good cry baby.

For Carthage1 votes

Do you wear a helmet when you post on the forums? I'm worried you might accidentally bump your head on your desk and we wouldn't want more damage to our special little boy, would we?

howstheweather131 votes

Holy shit Graves with no Cigar still HARD COUTERS Vayne oh no. Are you guys seriously complaining about Bork. If Bork wasn't nerfed had 30 ad more life steal and stole more hp and ms I could sympathize but sadly I can't.

For Carthage1 votes

He actually doesn't. I've beaten him multiple times in lane and after with Vayne by myself. Vayne's true damage ignores his passive, she outranges him, her Q is an easy dodge for her to avoid most of his Q damage, and she gains enough flat damage on her ult to outdo his. It'd be one thing if I could tell you it's a one-time fluke - I do it consistently, though.

Next you'll say Lucian still hard-counters Vayne.

Mia Hanoka1 votes

OK to the person heading up this OP. HERE IS THE LOGIC BEHIND BRINGING UP THE AR REDUCTION! believe it or not a large amount of Vaynes damage is not just her true damage in fact verses targets like and ADC or a non HP itemized jungler/Mid lane guess how many time she can proc her W? 1 time MAYBE 2 times. the damage is in the AD power took me looking at things for over the last years I have played and I have seen that the lower your AR the faster you die I even tested it to be sure that was the case by playing low to no AR builds on the lowest AR champions last year. while that true damage does give a massive spike in damage every third hit its main goal is to tear down tanks not carries. this test was down by simply comparing how fast that champion died with and with out a major armor item that did not grant HP.

ONLY YOU CAN PROVE THIS TO YOUR SELF AS WILL NOT RUN THE NUMBERS FOR YOU SO SIT YOUR BUTT DOWN AND DO IT!

Steps to test this out:

  1. find a friend who has vayne as a champion should not be hard if you have a friend from S1 S2 or S3 as they should by now have vayne from free ip alone or a friend with disposable income who was getting her any way.

  2. enter a custom match with them have them take vayne then do a farm up for vaynes "naturally best item" bork as you far up enough to buy an armor item of your pick that does not give HP there are several I have check if you have a hard time fingering this one out try thornmail its easily the best armor with no HP gain. (NOTE: DO NOT BUY THE AR ITEM YET AS YOU NEED TO SET THE STANDARD OF HOW FAST AND HOW MANY TIME VAYNE PROCS HER SILVER BOLTS AS AN ADC ATTACKING AN ADC)

  3. once vayne has bork go to dragon pit area and have vayne proceed to unleash the unholy hell on your face that is her "OP" silver bolts. note that your dead in few procs of the bolts then you where originally aware of. that is cause when in combat your brain switches to fight to flight mode and your not taking stock of tiny details. it takes training to actually slow your self down and count things out and I have trained myself to do that. on average in a serous match I notice vayne procs 1 to 2 sets of silver bolt procs on me pending my life steal and that is cause most vayne dont realize it but they itemize crit chance and damage which makes them eat HP faster with all that attack speed to help chew down that target.

  4. you die of course cause this is an experiment but your back at base buy your prefered non HP AR item then go back to vayne at your meeting place.

  5. let vayne lay into you again with the great force that is her evil silver bolts note the number of procs that happens and then compare to before the AR item.

I bet the truth will amaze you more then you know. when I did that I found that vayne proced silver bolts 2 times before I dropped then the number doubled to 4 times with added AR. most people dont realize that vayne does her damage by the AD aspect of her attacks not her silver they only want to scream VAYNE OP NERF HER NOW!

howstheweather131 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mia Hanoka,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YZfumTmF,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-09-26T12:03:39.552+0000)

OK to the person heading up this OP. HERE IS THE LOGIC BEHIND BRINGING UP THE AR REDUCTION! believe it or not a large amount of Vaynes damage is not just her true damage in fact verses targets like and ADC or a non HP itemized jungler/Mid lane guess how many time she can proc her W? 1 time MAYBE 2 times. the damage is in the AD power took me looking at things for over the last years I have played and I have seen that the lower your AR the faster you die I even tested it to be sure that was the case by playing low to no AR builds on the lowest AR champions last year. while that true damage does give a massive spike in damage every third hit its main goal is to tear down tanks not carries. this test was down by simply comparing how fast that champion died with and with out a major armor item that did not grant HP.

ONLY YOU CAN PROVE THIS TO YOUR SELF AS WILL NOT RUN THE NUMBERS FOR YOU SO SIT YOUR BUTT DOWN AND DO IT!

Steps to test this out:

  1. find a friend who has vayne as a champion should not be hard if you have a friend from S1 S2 or S3 as they should by now have vayne from free ip alone or a friend with disposable income who was getting her any way.

  2. enter a custom match with them have them take vayne then do a farm up for vaynes "naturally best item" bork as you far up enough to buy an armor item of your pick that does not give HP there are several I have check if you have a hard time fingering this one out try thornmail its easily the best armor with no HP gain. (NOTE: DO NOT BUY THE AR ITEM YET AS YOU NEED TO SET THE STANDARD OF HOW FAST AND HOW MANY TIME VAYNE PROCS HER SILVER BOLTS AS AN ADC ATTACKING AN ADC)

  3. once vayne has bork go to dragon pit area and have vayne proceed to unleash the unholy hell on your face that is her "OP" silver bolts. note that your dead in few procs of the bolts then you where originally aware of. that is cause when in combat your brain switches to fight to flight mode and your not taking stock of tiny details. it takes training to actually slow your self down and count things out and I have trained myself to do that. on average in a serous match I notice vayne procs 1 to 2 sets of silver bolt procs on me pending my life steal and that is cause most vayne dont realize it but they itemize crit chance and damage which makes them eat HP faster with all that attack speed to help chew down that target.

  4. you die of course cause this is an experiment but your back at base buy your prefered non HP AR item then go back to vayne at your meeting place.

  5. let vayne lay into you again with the great force that is her evil silver bolts note the number of procs that happens and then compare to before the AR item.

I bet the truth will amaze you more then you know. when I did that I found that vayne proced silver bolts 2 times before I dropped then the number doubled to 4 times with added AR. most people dont realize that vayne does her damage by the AD aspect of her attacks not her silver they only want to scream VAYNE OP NERF HER NOW!

I agree with you there. The armor nerfs did help propel her into the upper echelon of a hyper carry. FH or Thornmail plus one hp/armor item was all you needed to keep Vayne at bay but with all the changes in passives and numbers( god damnit Riot) she has gotten a bit out of hand.

For Carthage1 votes

I'm talking about her getting out of hand as far as ADC's go. She was the strongest pick in terms of an ADC even before the armor nerfs - in fact, the reason Riot gave for the armor nerfs was because it was a change that would help out other ADC's more than Vayne because other ADC's don't deal % health true damage.

Again, changes that benefit Vayne more than other ADC's will propel her ahead further than mutually beneficial changes. There is no reason the armor nerfs would help Vayne more than anybody else. In fact, her position is probably the least affected by it due to that.

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