I noticed armor is useless starting mid game and especially in end game. But as someone who enjoys playing tanks I would like to see some real tanks again that can soak damage and don't die instantly. In return they can also deal less damage so it will keep it balanced.
Craft Zeppelin2 votesSaying this in a tank meta lolz
IRyzeForNidalee2 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYhoPcRx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-03T10:33:46.484+0000)
Saying this in a tank meta lolz
"People are playing CC-bots because tanks can't tank, clearly it's a tank meta!"
CCing the enemy is the only way to increase your survival time when you'll just get 3-shot in a second and a half by the ADC through your 3k health and 300 armor.
Craft Zeppelin2 votesTell you what. The tank in this game is generally a mobile nuker with high hp stats. That is because people can choose targets unlike a MOB in a MMORPG. You force them to target you by your mobility, damage and cc.
That is why tanks are only moderately durable in this game genre. Your choice will make tanks deal no damage at all to balance their durability, then they will not be targeted at all because you can be ignored and tanks will be eradicated just like pre-tank meta.
Erockandroll1 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYhoPcRx,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-03T12:08:03.719+0000)
Tell you what. The tank in this game is generally a mobile nuker with high hp stats. That is because people can choose targets unlike a MOB in a MMORPG. You force them to target you by your mobility, damage and cc.
That is why tanks are only moderately durable in this game genre. Your choice will make tanks deal no damage at all to balance their durability, then they will not be targeted at all because you can be ignored and tanks will be eradicated just like pre-tank meta.
Well some would say that CC is the key that prevents the tank from being ignored. And CC in of it self, also lends to the tanks survivability, outside of their stat line. (When said CC, prevents the glass cannon from attacking.) But that said, the ability to stun lock the opponent isn't viewed as healthy either.
As for damage, a base level of damage is necessary for a champion to even function. A top lane tank need to be able to farm effectively while trading with their Bruiser counterparts, and a Jungle tank needs to have comparable clear speed. (Like, the only tanks that don't care about damage are supports) And yeah, that damage is generally tied to their spells, (paired with their CC) and they generally deal more of their damage in burst. (Where Tankyness and DPS are more common with Juggernauts)
Death by Glamour1 votesHow is this a tank meta?
Bobloser35552 votesI usually buy mostly damage, if I buy armor I lose, that should give us a clue of how weak armor is or how op physical damage, tanks work only vs AP not AD.
TaunkaTruck2 votesI think you guys are looking at it wrong. Armor works fine, it always has. What's changed over the last few years has been adding the assassin lethality items, extra armor pen, etc. Riot has been enhancing the toolkit of ADCs to kill tanks, without giving tanks anything to answer it with. They've gone the opposite way actually, nerfing items like thornmail, sunfire cape, etc to help ADCs even more. Couple the two things together, and tanking becomes unsustainable. MR tanks can hold up even with max magic pen. But when it comes to the AD side of things, we fall over. I agree something needs to be done, but my vote would be to reduce the ratios on armor pen items.
Bobloser35551 votesAD also has crit and ats multipliers, so just cutting armor pen wont do it.
Death by Glamour1 votesStoneplate is the current bandaid
Ahris1 votesMy vote is to make AP mages just as effective as AD champs.
Bobloser35553 votes...making tanks even more useless
Elkington VI1 votesThe only way to do this, without increasing the power of bruisers, is to give tanks better steroids (i.e. % damage reduction). If you make defensive itemization/masteries good then it massively buffs bruisers, who then push most tanks out of lane and jungle.
Riot tried to do this and the result is what we have now, where a few tanks are overwhelmingly better than the rest of them (even though the others can still do their jobs). What they fail to realize is that the game is in its best state when bruisers can actually compete. Tanks typically scale better than bruisers into late game regardless of the strength of defensive itemization.
Bruisers are the only ones that truly suffer when itemization/scaling is weak, since most don't have enough utility to fall back on to scale well. They are the most item dependent class in the game aside from ADCs.
Bobloser35551 votesI agree with your first point, if damage items are more or less equally effective on a tank then the choice often comes down to what items are most op at the moment, the synergy with defensive items should be inherent in a true tank class. But what we see now is Garen, Malph and other tanks generally buy quite bit of damage items, if they buy pure defensive items they are from my experience quite useless in late game, unless perhaps in a well coordinated team where everyone is on teamspeak and the 2 seconds extra survivability may mean something, which is not the case in solo queue at all. True tanks should be most powerful with defensive items, while bruisers should do well with both defensive and offensive items.
Elkington VI1 votesGaren is a bruiser, so you should always be buying at least one damage item on him. Malph is a tank that gets damage from building armor, similar to Rammus. The only bruiser that can get away with building full tank is Mundo, due to his %hp damage and hybrid scaling.
Most of the true tanks do have synergy with defensive itemization, they just aren't dependent on it in order to function in the way bruisers are.