Am I the only one thinks the raptors are totally out of control in the early game now?

Envoy of Melody·Dec 25, 2016·93 votes·4,952 views

I mean, I get it, they were supposed to be challenging instead of a free healing oasis for AoE Junglers, but this is kind of ridiculous. Try killing them with anything that doesn't have AoE in the early game now, they will either straight up kill you or weaken you so much that you risk getting killed during a counterjungle.

It doesn't feel like a challenge anymore, because at this rate it's better to completely ignore that camp in the early game and go for the enemy jungle instead if you run out of camps to clear. This may not seem like an issue to meta junglers like... urgh, Lee Sin, or Lee Sin, or Rengar, or Lee Sin, but for offmeta Junglers and Junglers in general that don't have AoE, this is kind of a problem. We lose experience or health in exchange for doing/not doing the camp.

92 Comments

LankPantsDec 25, 201618 votes

Just going to point out that Lee's ability to do Raptor's isn't his problem. He actually isn't that good at raptors. His AoE isn't that good.

Many of the junglers who benefit from a high reward AoE camp are non meta currently. Champs like Sejuani, Nautilus and Amumu love the raptor camp.

dominusxDec 25, 20164 votes

Lee 's problem is that he can pretty much send every champ to the base with a Q Q AA E AA combo. and yeah i mean every champ even that bs champ Poppy.

LankPantsDec 25, 201617 votes

Amongst other problems.

He takes 0 damage when clearing, has a combo on his ult that needs to not exist, is far to mobile between ward hops/high base ms/Q2 and is the only champ in the game who actively punishes building durability rather than just ignoring it (ignoring it is bad enough).

There's probably more too, he's so overloaded it's actually almost impossible to think about all the levels of bullshit on his kit.

SpecterVonBarenDec 25, 20164 votes

I'd love it if they increased his solo shield strength and flat out removed the tacked on lifesteal and spellvamp he has.

Spaceman5pffDec 26, 20161 votes

Or they could make the upfront shield bigger, but make it decay.

It would reward skilled timing with more damage mitigation, while not rewarding people who can't be bothered to time it.

Lee mains seem to love flaunting the skill needed to play lee, so why not add another layer of it for them to show off?

preferably, it would decay fast enough to be less effective than live at mitigating jungle damage.

TerchioDec 26, 20163 votes

is the only champ in the game who actively punishes building durability rather than just ignoring it

Not following on this one. Are we talking about the Q % Missing HP damage?

LankPantsDec 26, 20163 votes

Chain ults. His ult deals damage based on who he kicks HP to whoever they hit, IE it's worse for you if you have more HP.

SpecterVonBarenDec 25, 20162 votes

No no, it's W+ward in E AA Q AA Q, gotta get that execute damage.

RocketRelmDec 25, 20166 votes

Zac "Hey. How's it going?"

(Seriously, is Zac not a meta jungler right now? He loves the crap out of the new raptors / krugs.)

SociopathFriendDec 25, 20163 votes

Malphite in particular does very well considering his AAs are AoE when his W is active, his E lowers attack speed and is AoE, and he has a built-in shield to help nullify damage.

I don't get to jungle often, but I used Malph and I did quite well.

XonraDec 26, 20161 votes

Hec is Meta. He loves them.

Tychusfindlay919Dec 26, 20168 votes

also not a problem for Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern Ivern

OhadxpDec 25, 20167 votes

Laughs in Amumu

V The Support VDec 25, 20163 votes

Rammus Thinks this is "OK".

Subject 5Dec 25, 20166 votes

Most of my high win rate junglers can't even do the rapters, like, period. If I want it really badly, I'll do it but . . . yeah.

Then again my jungler pool looks like: Lulu <----My current main Jungler TahmKench Taric Orianna Yorick Singed

And rarely ever I play: Sejuani Nautilus

xeviDec 25, 20169 votes

Are you sure that isn't singed support?

Troll for TrumpDec 25, 20166 votes

Lvl 1 raptors are still more memorable than Aatrox

TequilaZombieDec 26, 20163 votes

I'd rather face a double Aatrox camp than Raptors with a single target champion.

SEKAIDec 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather face a double Aatrox camp than Raptors with a single target champion.

That will be Aatrox's first real job after his previous hack one.

SalronDec 25, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Envoy of Melody,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YNILEtEk,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-25T13:01:49.801+0000) This may not seem like an issue to meta junglers like... urgh, Lee Sin, or Lee Sin, or Lee Sin

Lmao don't make shit up Lee has 1 AoE ability that is maxed last He is by no means "good" at clearing the camp, the only situation where he would clear the camp well is if he has a Tiamat, which has nothing to do with Lee specifically as a champ

Over InnsmouthDec 25, 20165 votes

Ivern

http://data.whicdn.com/images/219274201/original.jpg

Joking aside, I agree with you. Raptors are obscenely stupid, I don't bother taking them for ages because of how much damage they do to my health bar.

EnloctDec 25, 20164 votes

Rengar and Lee suck at doing raptors. For that you want someone like Zac, presumably Vi but I haven't pesronally tried her.

They're just too difficult for the reward they offer. You enter the murder pit and in exhange you get too little XP for it.

SH AzykanDec 25, 20164 votes

meanwhile staring raptors on Chogath Amumu Nautilus

5000000000000000Dec 25, 20161 votes

Maokai saplings can oneshot mini raptors if you stack them

SH AzykanDec 27, 20161 votes

dont play much maokai, but the times I tried it on him the small raptors survive with a sliver of hp (after talismans burn as well), whats your setup where they get 1 shot?

5000000000000000Dec 27, 20161 votes

I run Mpen reds, and no other extra damage in my rune setup. I also don't take extra spell damage in ferocity, so I'm guessing it's fairly easy to achieve in terms of runes and masteries.

What I've found was that you need to place the sapling carefully so that all of your saplings hit all of the mini raptors. Also start setting up so that when the raptors spawn (about the same as buff camps), you toss another sapling to use the impact damage as well. If it's unreliable I guess you can just run Mpen or AP quints, but using your cooldowns correctly is probably the most important.

V The Support VDec 25, 20163 votes

Rammus

Spaceman5pffDec 26, 20162 votes

Walk into the middle -> powerball in the center -> curl = easirino clearirino

SH AzykanDec 27, 20161 votes

lv1, you dont has 2 skills :P

Spaceman5pffDec 27, 20161 votes

Right, and the normal path starts a buff at level 1, giving you level 2 to do raptors.

SH AzykanDec 28, 20161 votes

what I am saying is at level 1 starting raptors (before buffs even) raptors spawn 5 seconds before buff camps even and those champs actually clear them extremely quick/easily making it an advantage to do so.

Spaceman5pffDec 28, 20161 votes

oshit my bad

Learn2Read me, GG

SH AzykanDec 27, 20161 votes

dont play him so wasnt in my group but yeah he is another one likely P:

Wasabi KittyDec 25, 20164 votes

The only meta junglers worth taking raptors on your first/second clear are Vi abd Zac

Festive BearDec 25, 20162 votes

Also yi if you're good enough. I main him and I only do it when I have red buff and more than half health (Usually lvl 3)

Wasabi KittyDec 25, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Also yi if you're good enough. I main him and I only do it when I have red buff and more than half health (Usually lvl 3)

Yi isn't a meta jungler.

NERD DESTROYERDec 26, 20161 votes

uhh Shyvana Hecarim Sejuani Amumu . I can do raptors level 2 and have enough hp to clear the rest of the jungle.

Mighty MorteinDec 26, 20164 votes

Surprisingly, Fiddlesticks has a really tough time with raptors. I really wish his drain jumped to a new target (against monsters only) if it killed something.

Champion SkinDec 26, 20161 votes

That would be quite good and I don't think buffing Fiddle clear speed would be that bad of a thing.... Though he would still suffer against Red/Blue/Gromp where his Dark wind won't bounce (because there is only one target)

Mighty MorteinDec 27, 20161 votes

While that's true, he doesn't have too much problems against the single monster camps. He's just obviously a bit more vulnerable to invades since it's a slow process. Which could mean a little buff to his crow (something like "Does x% more damage to a target if it's the only thing hit by a crow). This effect would only proc on monsters.

MLDzXnRRRDec 25, 20163 votes

You forget about the midlaners who farm them... now they can't do it early. Or

Spaceman5pffDec 26, 20163 votes

you mean how mids just take a bunch of small ones from their jungler and walk away without fully clearing the camp?

bill84Dec 25, 20163 votes

Warwick Nunu item 3070

TwinkieProDec 26, 20162 votes

I occasionally play singed jungle. I use them to heal massively as I solo red buff. It's pretty fun.

nuclearwarpotatoDec 26, 20162 votes

Lee Sin does not like taking them. He is mostly single target so he is in the same boat as everyone else here in this situation.

thecowleyDec 26, 20161 votes

God yall must hate me, cause i play shyvana jg, and have problems at all with them

Spaceman5pffDec 26, 20161 votes

I think people are just bad because I can level 2 them just fine with Camille. Not exactly the queen of AoE clearing.

like if i can do no leash red -> raptors -> wolves -> blue and still have hp to gank WITH CAMILLE then these people must be REALLY bad at clearing.

MLDzXnRRRDec 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think people are just bad because I can level 2 them just fine with Camille. Not exactly the queen of AoE clearing.

like if i can do no leash red -> raptors -> wolves -> blue and still have hp to gank WITH CAMILLE then these people must be REALLY bad at clearing.

camille has healing in her kit unlike some other junglers...

Spaceman5pffDec 27, 20161 votes

Healing junglers

Elise Khazix Fiddlesticks Gragas Hecarim Kindred MasterYi Nidalee Nocturne Nunu Olaf RekSai Zac XinZhao Warwick LeeSin Udyr

Junglers without healing in their kit

Amumu Evelynn Graves JarvanIV Rammus Rengar Sejuani Pantheon Shaco Shyvana Skarner

Junglers without healing, but with shielding / other mitigation

Amumu (tantrum passive) Graves (knockback / smokescreen) JarvanIV Pantheon (hardly effective vs raptors, though) Rammus (massive resists) Skarner

Junglers with NO healing / shielding / other mitigation

Evelynn Pantheon (since his is so garbage vs raptors) Rengar (also garbage vs raptors) Shyvana

2 of the defenseless junglers we get to are actually still extremely powerful in the jungle, despite their seemingly being at a disadvantage bc of raptors.