Over 20% Playrate and 53% winrate

Cabruh·May 4, 2017·17 votes·967 views

Fck this oppressive btch

58 Comments

StoryDuckMay 4, 201712 votes

...and still balanced. That's some successful champion design when new players can so quickly become good with her. She has power tied up in her ultimate as well as her mobility allowing clear windows of power so people understand when they can be strong with her making it easy to skew the win rate 3% in her favor when people don't need to spend 100+ games learning walls of text for each ability.

CabruhMay 4, 20174 votes

Seriously?

StoryDuckMay 4, 20173 votes

Seriously, I mean, look at all the over complicated champion kits these days and then look at Ahri's. She isn't super complicated and is actually pretty easy to learn. You don't need 100s of games with her to understand "Do I have ult? Then I'm powerful if I don't I'm weak" You can run her QWE numbers compared to a lot of other midlaners and you find she is actually a bit on the low side. Add in her ultimate and then she gets up to their level but that's because she gains a lot of mobility and safety with it.

I can understand feeling frustrated when you lane against an Ahri and lose but it's not worse the a Fizz lane you lose against or losing against Leblanc in lane. If you really struggle with her just keep track of her ultimate. When it is down is when you have your opportunity to punish her and when it is up you should be scared of her.

CabruhMay 4, 20172 votes

Ok now i know u are trolling comparing her to fizz. First off, fizz isn't that hard to play either, yet he has a lower winrate and has a harder lane phase. Ahri, on the other hand, is playing safe 90% and has 3 free dashes to make sure she doesnt get screwed.

StoryDuckMay 4, 20172 votes

3 free dashes? Yeah with a huge CD. Do you try to duel a Fiora with her ult up? Do you get close to an Annie with flash and tibbers ready? Ahri is no different, her ultimate it is supposed to have a huge impact on the game. Just instead of giant ass AoE damage she gets a lot of mobility and more targeted damage because she is an assassin. This also translates to making her a safe pick because that mobility can allow you to escape mistakes and bad positioning. She will never have a poor winrate unless her ult is reworked (removing her identity) or her numbers are so low she can no longer assassinate anyone (and would have the opposite effect probably giving her a much lower then 50% win rate)

JoxcabMay 4, 20171 votes

Just stepping in, but her ultimate is one of the lowest cooldowns for any ultimate in the entire game. Continue. Her ultimate isn't her identity anyways.

StoryDuckMay 4, 20171 votes

110 / 95 / 80. That isn't a small CD but yes there are some ults with longer CDs. Perhaps the ult CD could be increased to allow a larger time gap for players to play around the ultimate but really, I don't think it would make a huge difference in her winrate.

PennsMay 4, 20175 votes

Sure "balanced" lel

DracocrashMay 4, 20175 votes

nope, oppresive and makes a lot of picks practically unviable just by existing.

Titanium70May 4, 20177 votes

Lol, Nope! Not even close - I'd genuinely pick every single Mid-Laner into her because it is always a mere Skillmatchup.

Ahri is one of the few strong Champions that DONT eliminate half of the compedition by existing!

DracocrashMay 4, 20172 votes

thats your opinion.

Facts differ though.

Champions like akali and diana get completely smashed by her, no skill matchup. Zoned from all cs pre 6, and if that wasn't enough unkillable post 6 even with the junglers help.

Titanium70May 4, 20175 votes

So Ahri is unkillable for an AKALI post 6?

Yeah that DEFINITELY A FACT and no opinion....

DracocrashMay 4, 20172 votes

you continue to provide no arguments and only meaningless words.

Ahri winrate vs akali is 56% 1000+ sample size.

you're getting upvoted by mindless circlejerkers tho so thats nice

Sir FuzziMay 5, 20171 votes

Because good game sense means the smoke cloud is an implication. If that's the only area you can be in, you're kind of pigeonholing yourself. Ahri can poke millions of holes through it and make it a very unfavourable place to be. Then she can move circles around Akali because Akali has always been about combos-- trying to just spam one of her moves only (IE chasing with all ult charges) lowers her potential immensely, not to mention Ahri has the advantage of hard CC and she gets a pretty useful late-game heal if minions are nearby to hit.

All-in-all, I don't see why Ahri wouldn't be considered a good matchup against Akali. Akali would have to make very measured plays or Ahri would have to fumble quite a bit. I think someone like Xerath or Lux is better, since they can regularly stay out of Ahri's way and just CC her ult-dash and calmly leave (while damaging on the out). This would be a good game for them to get early movespeed to have the raw stat check to talk the talk when it comes to actually escaping Ahri. Being super open without knowing Ahri's ult up/down and her location can leave most of her competition dead because she, again, can lead in with a Charm and deal a lot of her damage without interruption.

Zhonya's at the right time-- not just when she does one thing, but at the crucial burst in her combo-- can leave her very much exposed to danger, especially when playing someone with reliable CC. Protobelt would give a good reason to turn an engage against her, to avoid her damage but catch her while she's forward, as well as the other two Hextech items being useful for peeling her.

Ahri will generally only be as successful as she is able to outrange what she can't out-perform in close-range, and out-perform in close-range what she can't outrange. This means her combat is pretty much in phases... y'know, like some sort of... I dunno...

Video game enemy.

ApocalypsicMay 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Wizfact EUW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y9rdEm0H,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2017-05-04T15:34:38.691+0000)

thats your opinion.

Facts differ though.

Champions like akali and diana get completely smashed by her, no skill matchup. Zoned from all cs pre 6, and if that wasn't enough unkillable post 6 even with the junglers help.

Diana shits on Ahri, and at the very least is a skill matchup. Diana has all the tools she needs to both harass and survive lane.

DracocrashMay 4, 20171 votes

yep! thats why ahri has a 55% winrate vs diana over 1300+ games.

2% higher than normal. Because diana counters ahri right?

but hey! if clear cut statistics cant convince you, then nothing can, so dont bother replying.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 4, 20172 votes

Lol there are barely any matchups for ahri below 50% winrate. Even against annie who used to hardcounter her she manages a 49% winrate.

Depends on the ahri player. If he can actually use his mobility, yes she DOES eliminate most of the immobile midlane champs.

Titanium70May 5, 20171 votes

Uhm... A champion that wins 53% of all games tends to have not so much matchups below 50%? x'D

Still - I'd pick every single Mid-Champ from Anivia to Zyra without regret into her - because you can always play better than Ahri win the lane.

Ahri has no real counters - but Ahri also counters noone!

warpenguin555May 4, 20172 votes

like who

DracocrashMay 4, 20171 votes

@mentioned above

MunchCrunchLunchMay 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

...and still balanced. That's some successful champion design when new players can so quickly become good with her. She has power tied up in her ultimate as well as her mobility allowing clear windows of power so people understand when they can be strong with her making it easy to skew the win rate 3% in her favor when people don't need to spend 100+ games learning walls of text for each ability.

get out. according to your ass?

lmao.

shes the most played mid laner in diamond+ and has a 55% winrate in their.

you don't fucking play mid lane. don't you dare act as if you know. you belong in the support position. don't open your mouth about mid lane expert.

StoryDuckMay 4, 20171 votes

True I don't play midlane but that doesn't mean I can't analyze a champions strengths and weaknesses. I actually get a really good idea of mid laners strength because I need to know exactly what I can survive being a support main (and mid roaming bot is a pretty common play). It's hard being 2+ levels down and having weaker items. A good support knows their limitations and what kind of damage they can take without dying or how to position themselves so they don't become a target. This means I need to have a deep understanding of how deep an assassin champion like Ahri can reach with their damage and how much damage they can do. I always give Ahri a bit of extra space then some other mid lane assassins because I know she can flash R a good distance to catch someone out of position.

Yet, for all her mobility I've never felt that she was unstoppable because she doesn't have much in terms of defensive stats. She could be locked down and killed or sometimes just straight up nuked the second she tries to assassinate someone. I won't pretend to understand everything about mid lane but I do understand champions and how they interact with bot lane and supports.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 4, 20172 votes

No you can not. You definitely can not. All you see is damage, midlane is much MUCH more than just how much damage someone can deal. Positioning and microplays in general are way more important. Harassing your enemy without receiving dmg back and missing last hits. Pushing power is important as well as "roam-ability". And ahri just has WAY too much. She has inbuilt sustain, way too much mobility and safety on top of pushing power and roaming ability ON TOP OF BURST MAGE DMG. There is the problem, you don't lock down or nuke any ahri player with a brain as long as her Ult and Q are up. Oh and don't forget her hard CC on an assassin, burst mage hybrid.

StoryDuckMay 5, 20171 votes

Okay, so you're an expert then. Can you please explain to me why she is so busted? All I've been hearing is that she has a 53% win rate and 20% pick rate. That isn't an explanation of why she is "unbalanced". As far as I can tell, no one is explaining why she is OP. They just say QQ win rate QQ pick rate we should nerf X. No explanation no reasoning. I take the time to look over her numbers and reflect upon the games I have played with her and base my ideas on those. I don't really see anyone basing their desire to nerf Ahri on anything other then win rate and pick rate and that isn't going to convince me that you're right.

AHeroNamedHawkeMay 4, 20173 votes

{quoted}

...and still balanced. That's some successful champion design when new players can so quickly become good with her. She has power tied up in her ultimate as well as her mobility allowing clear windows of power so people understand when they can be strong with her making it easy to skew the win rate 3% in her favor when people don't need to spend 100+ games learning walls of text for each ability.

"Literally any dumdum can slam their head against the keyboard and maintain a positive winrate with this champion, that means theyre balanced"

??????

StoryDuckMay 4, 20171 votes

By that logic Amumu is too easy to play and is unbalanced because it's too easy to play and be effective with him. (who btw has historically had above 50% win rate)

AHeroNamedHawkeMay 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

By that logic Amumu is too easy to play and is unbalanced because it's too easy to play and be effective with him. (who btw has historically had above 50% win rate)

What's that? A quarter of Ahri's pick rate? And currently has a lower win rate by 3%?

Id like you to double check that math

StoryDuckMay 4, 20171 votes

"Literally any dumdum can slam their head against the keyboard and maintain a positive winrate with this champion, that means theyre balanced"

I don't need math I just volunteered the information he does vary from patch to patch in winrate. The point is that Amumu is easy to play and your logic was that because Ahri was easy to play and has a decent win rate that she is unbalanced.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 4, 20171 votes

She has more than a decent winrate with for midlane a sick pickrate. 22% was the last number i read. Besides against her usual counters she doesn't even drop below 50% winrate. Ahri is straight up busted after every single other midlaner got nerfed. Also amumu falls off very hard the higher you go in elo unlike ahri.

StoryDuckMay 5, 20171 votes

Okay, so why is she so powerful? All I've heard people complain about is that her win rate is high. No one seems to know why (or at least they are not saying why) she has a slightly high win rate. So instead of using her win rate as an excuse why not provide real reasoning as to why she is busted?

Is it because she has true damage? I doubt it because it is not a lot of true damage by any means.

Healing? 3 / 5 / 9 / 18 (+ 9% AP) for each enemy hit won't make a big difference unless it is a huge minion wave. Not to mention that it requires her to pre-cast some spells first just to proc the passive and only Q would get any meaningful healing from it if it was meaningful healing at all.

Her damage? Well her base numbers are pretty low but like other AP assassins you get a couple items on her and the numbers add up. I'd say she was behind other AP assassin in overall damage.

Her Mobility? I'd take 3x dashes every 110-80 second over a dash every 6 seconds any day of the week and although her Q MS boost is nice I wouldn't call it game breaking.

Mana costs? I don't know about this one either because her mana costs are not super cheap. I wouldn't say they are super high either but she runs out of mana just like any other mana champion. (which would also be a gate against sustaining too much with her passive)

So what is it that makes her so unbalanced? Surely you have more then just "Her win rate is 53% and pick rate 22%"

Automated RivenMay 5, 20171 votes

I honestly feel like if riot wanted to nerf ahri removing the true damage would do the trick. It would be efectivly meaningless and silence the whining.

StoryDuckMay 5, 20171 votes

Okay, cool. So why does this fix her? I look at her numbers and it doesn't look like damage is that high so could you explain to me why changing 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 35% AP) from true to magic will make a difference? Is the goal here to remove her ability to assassinate targets? If so, wouldn't that ruin her?

AHeroNamedHawkeMay 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Okay, cool. So why does this fix her? I look at her numbers and it doesn't look like damage is that high so could you explain to me why changing 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 35% AP) from true to magic will make a difference? Is the goal here to remove her ability to assassinate targets? If so, wouldn't that ruin her?

"How would allowing resists to affect 200 damage on a low CD ability matter?"

Literally go to any champion in this game, take 100 damage off their primary skill and tell me that doesnt do anything. Youre arguing the same way everyone else with no valid points does on here, by trying to appeal to feelings rather than observing the very obvious data in front of you

Amumu has nothing to do with Ahri, has nowhere close to her statistics, but because he was not considered OP in season 3 despite his high win rate you're using that as your hard proof

Take as many parts of her kit out of context in your magical vacuum as you want, it doesnt change the fact that she's far too effective for all skill levels in any matchup.

StoryDuckMay 5, 20171 votes

Please just drop the Amumu thing. I am sorry I ever brought it up and I have no desire to talk about it. I'm legitimately asking why this change would fix Ahri. You say it takes 100 damage off when dealing 200 damage but that isn't how magic damage works. Of course, I assume you are just saying this to make a point so I won't get hung up about numbers here. What is the point of reducing her damage? What is the problem with her having this true damage? Is the goal to remove her ability to assassinate people? If so what is her role supposed to be?

Automated RivenMay 5, 20171 votes

the point is that it wouldnt do anything to her. at best she would do slightly less damage to tanks. its a perceived nerf. It would get the masses to shut up about her and allow her to function the same way she always has. I dont even think that ahri is a problem. but I am ok with a "nerf" to just get people to shut up.

edit i mean to say that the people she wants to be assassinating are going to maybe take 20 damage less from her combo late game. early on in the game before she gets sorcs and void maybe it will be harder but late in the game it doesnt matter. the people that ahri wants to be attacking arent gonna notice the lack of true damage. and the people who do werent dying to her anyway.

StoryDuckMay 5, 20171 votes

LOL, I like the way you think. I concur that this change would fix absolutely nothing. I am very curious how people will justify the nerfs they want though. I mean, I'm not an Ahri main and I don't play Mid. I've had many games with her but perhaps I am missing something. I want to give the people so upset with her a chance to explain why she is so bad, what they would change, and explain why that change fixes her. I'll listen to them and consider what they say and keep an open mind but they would have to have a really solid argument for any nerf that would be meaningful enough to lower her win rate yet keep her healthy.

Automated RivenMay 5, 20171 votes

I think the only arguement I would remotely agree with (for a real nerf) is her relative safety. she has average mana costs and is able to farm/sustain well in lane. she goes oom but not so early that it gimps her laning. I could see the arguement to remove the MS boost on q to remove some of that safety that thats about the only real nerf that I think has any real grounds for arguement. Ahri is a very fair champion to play as and against.

I could also understand the call for her to gain some buffs in some aspects and nerfs in others to give her a meaningful weakness. but like I said. I think some aesthetic nerfs would do the trick

ShablagooMay 5, 20173 votes

Why do ahri mains refuse to acknowledge that their champion is just to safe, she isnt even super strong but she has literally everything in her kit as a mage which makes her so oppresive. Like most burst mages are immobile, so they have cc to help them escape, or maybe some sustain. Ahri has everything literally everything, burst, mobility, sustain, its a single target cc but its still effective. She is was to safe, atleast some soloQ champions have some setbacks but i literally can think of anything other then she has two skill shot abilities that are impossible to miss if u ult into someones face or have a zed ult. Like she doesnt even need huge number nerfs just nerf the movement speed on her q or reduce the amount of time she has to dash or put a longer period between dashes like how u have to wait alittle to use ur ult like kha.

d4rkshockMay 4, 20172 votes

She's been consistently good since day 1 but I'm not sure. she never gets nerfed. Also just pick assasins against her and you'll oneshot. Especially zed and talon.

JoxcabMay 4, 20173 votes

Zed: Dash away after ult/Aim charm behind you Talon: Same as above except aim charm forwards

lmao

VolphiMay 4, 20171 votes

[deleted]

JoxcabMay 4, 20172 votes

Uh, you cannot immediately swap, and your ultimate will always put you directly behind the target after a set amount of time. AKA, you will ALWAYS be hit by the Charm if the Ahri isn't completely stupid.

Also if she's low enough just the initial ult pop alone with no reflected damage will kill her, it'd be an idiotic decision to stay at tower where she could easily be dived. So she'd just back. You're not going to poke her that low anyways though so it doesn't matter.

VolphiMay 4, 20171 votes

[deleted]

JoxcabMay 4, 20172 votes

Edge is expensive, and if she sees it, she'd just ult away instead to safety. She doesn't need to kill you, she can just prevent you from killing her consistently.

Doesn't matter when there's literally a set consistent countdown until he appears when he first ults, AKA, you wait and fire so he'd get hit the second he initially appears.

You are melee. She is ranged. You have piss poor waveclear and are only good at it because you can bully in a melee matchup. She has sustain. You don't. She can stay behind minions to farm decently. You can't without burning your only engage or escape tool (W). And if she was low health enough to dive, she would just back, as would any other player. Add in potentially taking Exhaust over Ignite and you might as well just resign yourself to roams.

d4rkshockMay 5, 20171 votes

Then talon will do it again 30 seconds later with 45% CDR. Thats significantly shorter than the arhi ult. Zed will do it 45 seconds later again and he changed evade charm with his shadow. Also talon is one of the best first blood champions. If you proc your passive and ignite when they have half ho, that's a kill lvl 3. Same for pantheon.

JoxcabMay 5, 20171 votes

Neither Talon nor Zed go 45% CDR, nor do they really go CRR at all outside of Ghostblade and Cleaver. Ahri's standard items have up to 40% off the bat.

Also you literally cannot evade charm when you are predetermined to appear behind her after like exactly 1 second. She just waits and fires a bit before so you get hit the second you appear.

Talon cheese only works against melee. If you got it off against an Ahri, thy are actually fucking stupid.

d4rkshockMay 5, 20171 votes

Actually ionan boots and death's dance. Those are good items for them and they give cdr. And I have played talon myself and have got first blood on mages before. Same concept. Spam q until half hp, proc passive, and kill. Who's gong to build resistances on talon. Sure eon has Mr but it's an ad zhonias.

JoxcabMay 5, 20171 votes

........… You are aware the best boots at the moment are Tabi's and Treads? Ionian only works if you are extremely ahead and there are absolutely no threats at all.

Death's Dance is horrible on an assassin.

The mages don't ever have excuse to be in your Q range without being able to easily punish you far harder.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 5, 20172 votes

Except zed gets bullied out of lane so hard there is no way he is going to kill her if both players are equally skilled.