Rune Suggesstion: Make a Keystone that gets rid of Leashing.

StarGuardianWeeb·Jul 5, 2017·2 votes·577 views

Apparently nvm everyone agrees that refusing a junglers leash is a justified action and if you cant catch up thats your fault as a jungler.

Mods lock and delete thanks.

40 Comments

Fuh QueueJul 5, 20178 votes

I don't understand this at all. I main jungle and I've rarely (if ever) had teammates refuse to do a leash. However a leash isn't even important if you understand your champion and know how to clear.

AMYS GRAVEJul 5, 20172 votes

If you know what you're doing its not like you're going to die, but it does slow you down compared to the enemy jungler who did get a leash. That difference can make you late to your first gank, where the enemy jungler may have already got a kill putting that lane at a severe disadvantage.

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20172 votes

See I keep hearing that, but EVERY game I jungle it's a 50/50 shot. some are even nice enough to tank the damage or leash another creature, but like a LOT of people just leave me high and dry and it's frustrating since I only have 3 jgs (the 450 ip ones) and dont want to "Have" to spend IP on a champ I dont want to learn just so i can play a role Riot thrusts on me. :(

And i dont know "clears" and stuff, I dont ever jungle and dont want too. It changes every year, its a hard working role with little respect, and frankly it's boring to me. Being left out to dry by not getting leashed on top of it all is just an annoying cherry on top.

ForFoxSakesJul 7, 20172 votes

So basically you're admitting that you have no idea how the jungle works, but want something to help the problem that you have which really isnt a big deal breaker for the role :/

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20171 votes

No I want something that makes it so when i get the asshole top laner who says "i dont leash lol fuk you" (happens in over half my games) I dont start behind the guy that had an actual teammate. Did you even read the thread?

LostFr0stJul 5, 20172 votes

Just make your first ever smite without allies in X (large) radius do bonus damage maybe? This is a cool idea you have overall. Not sure how it would warp the jg meta but I think it'd be worth investigating.

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20172 votes

To be fair riot changes the jungle practically every season now and warps their meta like crazy, I just figured removing one of the most annoying things about jungling wouldnt be so bad.

LostFr0stJul 5, 20172 votes

Yo, there's a new dev post about runes. Should post it there if you haven't already. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/MZd3jemX-runes-content-development-peek

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20171 votes

Oh! thank you! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ForFoxSakesJul 7, 20171 votes

Would be way too strong. RITO specifically fucked junglers over on first clear with buffs to monster damage, increasing spawn timer and reducing jungler sustain.

With a proper leash the first smite would be used on another camp when the jungler is alone so they'd get that clear speed pickup again

ZelorxonJul 5, 20172 votes

You mean you want to remove the last glimmer of teamwork that this garbage game has? Just because people are retards and don't know that besides the autoattacks the support should tank 1 hit if it's a caster and 2 hits if he's a tank, and the adc should tank 1 hit since masteries+doran item will heal that damage back by the time he's gone to lane?

I would much rather have riot make a video explaining what leashing and jungle resources are, instead of cancering this game up even more...

Also, you can't get rid of leashing unless you make minions spawn super early, because people will find a way anyways, and putting your jungler in a situation where he has to farm all alone will open the way for cheesy and useless strats such as killing him lv1, which are not healthy because that way you put yourself behind more than anything else.

Funny how the same reason why you complain about people not giving you a proper leash is the same reason that makes you say this stuff, ironic. :)

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20171 votes

Uhhh I want this because people are already ignoring me needing al eash. Maybe tell THEM to behave like a team, oh you cant, because no one can predict how trolls and assholes are?

"Last Glimmer of teamwork" da fuck? this WHOLE game revolves around teamwork. when i dont get leashed (often as fuck) we are behind, im now a burden on my team because someone didnt cooperate. When a jungle doens gank lanes and farms always while bot is camped, thats ignoring teamwork. When someone is feeding and wont stop/ints it causes you to lose games more oftne than not, and lets not forget DCs and 4v5s. All punishing because you win and lose as a team.

I didnt even finish your comment to be honest like the fact you could legitimately say that leashing is the "last hope of teamwork" in this game is beyond ridiculous. Regardless if thats how you feel then i'd love to hear how you handle falling behind when a team mate ignores you? Yuo sound liek the type to get all huffy and flame all game so yeah sure do value your opinion on teamwork.

zlumpyJul 5, 20172 votes

A rune that spawns a ghost copy of whatever your fighting with less health than the target maybe? Helps clear and tanks a few hits early.

Give it a cooldown similar to smite and it would help slower jungles more than dps junglers. Heck it may even allow non meta jungles again.

We could also just put blasting smite back in as well

DrCyanideJul 5, 20172 votes

I'd probably make it so that if you take the keystone the first thing you smite every X seconds spawns a Ghost unit that attacks that camp and can tank a few hits. The Ghost could have damage and health scale with level, or possibly even be a clone of your own champion. That could get pretty broken in some situations, but the keystones are suppose to be on the strong side. If you want it to only work when you don't get a leash, then it could require allies to be a certain distance away before it would kick in.

Ultimately it would become a keystone that trades combat strength for a faster clear, which is probably an acceptable idea. Could have some interesting implications with soloing dragons and Rift Herald though.

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20171 votes

I love this kinda idea! A "pet" like keystone that on certain smite uptimes can tank monsters for you and attack back. Love the idea of a champion clone makes it work better thematically. Call it "Mirage something" and bam! good call.

Devilreaper XIIIJul 5, 20172 votes

or you could choose an actual jungler with a form of sustain like warwick, fiddlesticks, evelyn shaco? i always go with fiddle and tell them to just go to their lane or they will miss out farm O.O riot seems to have changed the spawning of monsters. which makes a leash a punish to the adc/top really, so new players will most likely stop leashing, the only thing i hate these days though, is that the rest of the team are like screw jungle, oh opponents invade our blue? who cares! and simply ignore your 1vs5 in your own jungle near your own blue...... jungleing is so lonely :(

i also have to note that most keystones are useless... thunderlord gets cancelled if you don't consecutively hit the same champion.... i rarely see the thunder.... the extra ap/ad/mov is pointless the only ones i find usefull are the ones recovering health.... but i never play tank XD maybe they should replace one for a jungle keystone.

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20172 votes

WW is the one and only jungler i can play because of this very issue. I only have him and nunu and nunu basically sucks (or I dont "get" him or whatever) and I shouldnt have to drop IP on champs that looks boring as heck just so i can not fall behind in a role I NEVER queue up for anyways. That's like if someone said "I dont like playing support" and you just told them "well try buying other supports!" like ??????

The rest of your comments are kinda incoherant but for the record i'm referring to the new runes coming next year, and yes most people do screw over junglers this is why i'd like something like this. Jungle mains other than sustain champs would probably appreciate thefact their laners can worry about themselves too. I see no downside to having this.

ForFoxSakesJul 7, 20171 votes

LeeSin Graves Shyvana can all full clear without a leash and are strong junglers.

Lee has stupid high lifesteal and shield on W which you get second and after the first full clear I'm at full HP sometimes even with 1 charge left on the refillable pot. Open Q and time your abilities to do 2 autos in between each cast. On first buff execute the monster with Q-smite-Q so the second Q gets higher execute damage rather than trying to smite execute the monster.

Graves can kite very well especially with red buff start to slow monsters. Almost all the guides list Q start but IMO is very wrong. E start for the extra auto which gives more pushback to take less hits, more machete procs for damage & sustain and can start building armor stacks from the leash. You can make it from one side of the jungle and maintain a full 8 stacks (a monstrous +40 armor) through the entire first clear. Your first camp will always be the buff monsters so there's no benefit in having Q for AoE. Doing raptors open will screw you over more than help if you want to maintain the full 8 quickdraw stacks since they're the connecting point to refresh stacks when you cross from blue-red or red-blue side of the jungle

Shyv guides also list W start but wrong half the time. Red monster takes extra damage from attacks while blue monster takes extra damage from spells. If you blue start you can open W, but red start open Q for lots of extra double tap auto damage and extra machete procs

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20171 votes

played lee and graves, fed both times because their kits are very counter intuitive to a mage/marksmen mid/bot main player. Kindred is the closest to an "interesting" jungle that exists in this game to me and shes too expensive to get right now, and I SHOULDNT NEED TO BUY A SPECIFIC CHAMP FOR A ROLE I HATE!!!!

No one seems to be able to get it through their heads that suggessting different champs MEANS NOTHING. What role do you hate most? "Well hey try X and X and even X! they do things!" wow thanks that totally solves every issue i have with this role. If thats the case everyone bitching about autofill support, just try Blitzcrank Lulu Morgana tada! Now no one can be mad about support role. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

~~And shyvanna is garbage according to these boards.~~

Mysticman89Jul 5, 20172 votes

I feel like anything that promotes leash-less jungling would have to somewhat crudely force it (e.g. something that required no allied damage to the target), which would probably be suboptimal later on when you may want to clear a buff or something quickly, not to mention I don't think riot wants to promote solo play over teamwork.

If it's not explicitly 'forced' to be leashless and just makes leashless jungling easier, then most people will just continue to leash as normal and it'd just end up being a generic buff to most junglers, leaving the leashless people still behind their leashed counterparts.

StarGuardianWeebJul 5, 20171 votes

This was part of the issue i was hoping could be solved here, or by riot if they saw. It's not that leashing is inherantly bad, it's moe that it's one of those vague concepts that often times makes or breaks games on whether or not its "done right" and since junglers especially will be feeling the runes change more than anyone, I thought making something that would fix that wouldbe nice.

You are right stat checks and smite buffs seem the easiest way, in which case I wouldnt want it as a keystone, maybe a major stone that just enhances your smite healing? Most of my falling behind is because without a leash i get executed or need to back WAY too early so that might help?

Mysticman89Jul 5, 20171 votes

I'm pretty sure there will be keystones that impact healing in general which could help in that regard (as general healing would probably include the heal from smite). Locking runes to smite specifically seems kinda meh, since they'd want runes to be relatively broadly appealing instead of specifically requiring smite (or any other summoner spell).

The Sword SaintJul 5, 20172 votes

Worst part about leashing is that it gives away the starting side of your jungler to the enemy team if you put in any useful amount of time leashing.

Ra1ugaJul 7, 20172 votes

My suggestion, however, is that if your first jungle camp is not hit by anybody else, that a smite used on that camp halves the cooldown of Smite for your next Smite, and sets your health at 60% max health.

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20172 votes

a great suggestion, but the thread was mass downvoted by people who misunderstood it so sorry but its too late.

Ra1ugaJul 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

a great suggestion, but the thread was mass downvoted by people who misunderstood it so sorry but its too late.

Then feel free to create a new post and use my suggestion, I'm perfectly OK with it and I wont ask that you credit me for it.

Devilreaper XIIIJul 6, 20171 votes

well i don't really get the problem i mean do you die against blue/red ?? you can buy pods and even use healing plants O.O

i suggest with warwick to start red and use pods than heal (if you have) missing HP using the plant. Since blue is weaker than red you shouldn't have problems with blue after you get red, than build warwick with atk speed and lifesteal :P

stay away from the dodos/boulders btw at first, go for toad/wolf since the dodos are the strongest together with the boulders, you can also sneak in 2 more monster kills by killing the beetles at the river they don't attack back^^

just to clarify : start RED Heal with pods/plants go BLUE if necessary use pods/plants again go WOLFS or TOAD kill both BEETLES than go BASE and buy items go for either WOLFS or TOAD whichever you didn't kill before you went base. than go either DODO'S or BOULDERS HEAL again etc and maybe flank if you see an opportunity^^ don't forget Herald and Drake! XD

and there's no need to invade the other jungle unless you are confident you will win 1vs1 you could def your jungle with control ward, vision plants, smiting certain monsters and sweeper :P

StarGuardianWeebJul 6, 20171 votes

I go WW, he starts blue so i can use the basically constantly there mana to use my Q to heal. This is how I get past it. I dont get the choice to start red because if i dont get leashed at red, i have to recall or i will die.

Healing plants do not spawn until randomly between 3:00-3:30. Thats far too late in the game to use efficiently. I never make it to the crabs becausde behind behind from them getting a leash and me not, i have to clear my camps first.

And ALLLLL of that other stuff while appreciated, is useless info to me. I could learn how to leashless jungle or like pathing or buying some dumb jungle champ that never needs a leash, but i DONT WANT TO! Again, i hate jungling. I never ever want to voluntarily jungle or learn jungle, i merely wanted something that can stop people from causing me to fall behind when riot autofills me (because boo hoo some people cant play the easiest role, support, once every few games) and since they choose not to leash for me, which is wrong btw, it leads to bad teamwork. Ive never won a game where an asshole rudely didnt leash and for the record no leash = no ganks so when they then fail in lane i have enjoyed watching because i refuse to help them.

Once again I thank you for the help but i wont remember that stuff. also stop invading, its cheap and a shitty tactic. I want that gone too tbh but i guess since i hate this role thats not up to me.

Devilreaper XIIIJul 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I go WW, he starts blue so i can use the basically constantly there mana to use my Q to heal. This is how I get past it. I dont get the choice to start red because if i dont get leashed at red, i have to recall or i will die.

Healing plants do not spawn until randomly between 3:00-3:30. Thats far too late in the game to use efficiently. I never make it to the crabs becausde behind behind from them getting a leash and me not, i have to clear my camps first.

And ALLLLL of that other stuff while appreciated, is useless info to me. I could learn how to leashless jungle or like pathing or buying some dumb jungle champ that never needs a leash, but i DONT WANT TO! Again, i hate jungling. I never ever want to voluntarily jungle or learn jungle, i merely wanted something that can stop people from causing me to fall behind when riot autofills me (because boo hoo some people cant play the easiest role, support, once every few games) and since they choose not to leash for me, which is wrong btw, it leads to bad teamwork. Ive never won a game where an asshole rudely didnt leash and for the record no leash = no ganks so when they then fail in lane i have enjoyed watching because i refuse to help them.

Once again I thank you for the help but i wont remember that stuff. also stop invading, its cheap and a shitty tactic. I want that gone too tbh but i guess since i hate this role thats not up to me.

haha thats where you go wrong :P do you have lifesteal runes/masteries ?

ww needs to start red since it will give you a dmg boost, which you can use against blue, ww is melee not mage O.O you can heal extra with pods^^ you can ask top/bot to ward your blue just in case^^

thats all there is to it O,O

well the only way to never end up jungle is to autofill or play support.... so chances are if you don't play support or autofill, you will end up being the jungler on occasion, might as well learn it a little .-.

some champs are made to invade but it can be averted with good warding O.O its not cheap its clever :P staggering your opponents jungle ^^ either jungler can do this XD so its equally rewarding as it is risky, for getting caught will most likely get you ganged :P

i understand where you are coming from but try to understand where the adc is coming from too, i mean riot changed it so that if the adc gives you a leash, the adc will miss out on creeps. which is a severe punishment vs an opponent that is good at farming .-.

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20171 votes

again, you're trying to teach me a role and its all going over my head, because i dont care. I. do. not. actively. play. jungle. I hate it and frankly wish the role would not exist anymore, but it does, and currently it's necessary to leash shitty junglers like me, or ill fall behind and the game is as good as lost

No i wont learn about paths, no i wont change how i get buffs, no i you cant use extra pods, and i cant ask anyone to ward anything because if my team is rude enough they wont leash why on earth do you think they would ward? And no invading is stupid and dumb and only used to throw off an already shitty and tedious role every invade is basically GG because then i DEFINITELY dont getl eashed cause my team "has to get to laaaane" well thats cool im 0/1 and trying to jungle but yeah go on ahead.

AND I DO GET AUTOFILLED, AND PLAY SUPPORT, SUPPORTS THE BEST ROLE IN THIS GAME FOR ALL ITS UNDERAPPECIATED BULLSHIT THATS MY LITERAL POINT!!!!! BEFORE AUTOFILL I NEVER HAD TO PLAY THIS UTTERLY SHITTY ROLE AND NOW RIOT FORCED ME INTO IT AND AS IF THATS NOT BAD ENOUGH YOUR SITTING HERE SAYING THAT LEASHING, SOMETHING THATS BEEN DONE SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME IN THIS GAME, ISNT "FAIR" TO THE LANER???? WELL NO SHIT I DONT LIKE LEASHING AS A LANER BUT I FUCKING DO IT CAUSE ITS CALLED TEAMWORK

Maybe go tell all this shit to someone else all you're honestly doing is pissing me off ignoring the actual problem (assholes that dont leash) and trying to throw out "solutions" like some white girl telling her fat friend how to lose weight. I will never be good at jungling, and if you dont leash me the games as good as lost because ill be TWICE as bad. Those are 100% facts that will not be changing anytime soon. Unless you have a solution that isnt "learn jungle better"there's nothing more to say here.

ForFoxSakesJul 7, 20172 votes

So much wrong in your "advice" bud.

You NEVER want lifesteal runes. Junglers take flat armor then damage marks and quints. Lifesteal will screw up your ganks, invade and clear speed so hard and at first clear will barely do anything for sustain with how low your stats and damage is

WW can start either red or blue but since he opens with machete he isnt getting the mana regen with talisman and not being able to spam abilities means less sustain

ADC DOES NOT miss out on creep from leashing. They just made it so they have a few less seconds of leash time when before they could stay until the buff monster was dead. Now they have to leave at around 50%

Honey plants DO NOT spawn until AFTER your first clear so that's totally out of the picture now

Asking for solo laners to ward your buffs just incase is asking for them to get ganked in lane when they have no security from vision

PimpStickNasusJul 7, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devilreaper XIII,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y74rZmOT,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-07-06T07:53:17.625+0000)

BEETLES DODO BOULDERS

What are these? I'm very confused

l Dárius lJul 7, 20171 votes

sorry but i dont want enemy laners to get level 2 quicker than me because someone on the enemy team took a specific keystone

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20171 votes

That would be shitty, and not at all what im asking for. Thanks for the input.

Devilreaper XIIIJul 7, 20171 votes

@WeebTrashSupreme V.V jungling isn't that bad and it is an aspect of the game, and you're lucky i won't report you for racism..... i'm not saying get better, i'm just saying use alternate ways.... look for solutions, and they are actually there, i just don't get why you are so stubborn... we are just giving you advice....

@ForFoxSakes

it was a question O.O some prefer lifesteal/spellvamp on masteries others on runes depening on which champion you jungle with.

and you can actually miss out on creeps or get pushed to your tower if you leash.

you actually have 2 wards top/mid and 4 bot....

using 1 ward isn't going to affect security from vision, except for mid. so asking top or bot is fine O.o

there are tons of ways to jungle but he's too stubborn to even try anything O.o no new junglers, no tactics no pathing, hes so hung on that leash.... every champ that can't do jungle without leash is simply put no jungler and WW can do without leash.... Warwick is a jungler, so honestly why ask for a leash?

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20171 votes

Hey whats your least favorite role in this game? Smart moneys onsupport, but lets say for arguments sake you hate ADC.

Now imagine im sitting here and as you tell me you dislike this role, for your own PERSONAL reasons, im merely telling you "try this and that and maybe this. Do this but not this and that and never this. also play these guys"

How would you feel? How would it literally make you feel as someone was missing the entire point of your comments and just kept going on and on with (apparently terrible according to foxtrot whatever) advice? You'd probably be VERY annoyed someone was ignoring that you specifically and actively avoid this role and was just shoving unwanted advice in your face.

And im not "hung up on a leash" Im saying its a pretty dick move to ignore someone who NEEDS a leash. If i am playing a jungler that needs leashing, and my team isnt leashing me, fuck you for saying im "stubborn" im rightfully starting off behind the enemy jungler and allowed to be pretty upset about it. Sorry for wanting to solve a problem for both ends by just making leashing a strategic option, not a BIG necessity that it currently is. We are done now.

Also i said nothing racist. Trust me I WANT to call you some things, but despite your shit advice you seem a genuinely okay person so just accept that you're not helping and stop.

Devilreaper XIIIJul 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Hey whats your least favorite role in this game? Smart moneys onsupport, but lets say for arguments sake you hate ADC.

Now imagine im sitting here and as you tell me you dislike this role, for your own PERSONAL reasons, im merely telling you "try this and that and maybe this. Do this but not this and that and never this. also play these guys"

How would you feel? How would it literally make you feel as someone was missing the entire point of your comments and just kept going on and on with (apparently terrible according to foxtrot whatever) advice? You'd probably be VERY annoyed someone was ignoring that you specifically and actively avoid this role and was just shoving unwanted advice in your face.

And im not "hung up on a leash" Im saying its a pretty dick move to ignore someone who NEEDS a leash. If i am playing a jungler that needs leashing, and my team isnt leashing me, fuck you for saying im "stubborn" im rightfully starting off behind the enemy jungler and allowed to be pretty upset about it. Sorry for wanting to solve a problem for both ends by just making leashing a strategic option, not a BIG necessity that it currently is. We are done now.

Also i said nothing racist. Trust me I WANT to call you some things, but despite your shit advice you seem a genuinely okay person so just accept that you're not helping and stop.

i try to play all roles O.O since ALL of it is part of the game..... i don't mind advice :P if it improves my gameplay XD

well, your initial request is a keystone that takes away leashing.... whereas we tell you, you can do it without leashing therefore a keystone to get rid of leashing isn't necessary.... you just want an easy and lazy way out.... no one was missing the point.... you just don't get it....

also top/bot could say the same about you forcing people to leash....

i don't comprehend how you can dislike a role out of personal reasons O.o you're making mountains out of molehills....

as for the racism you said: ''like some white girl telling her fat friend how to lose weight.''

so its ok for a black girl to tell her friend how to lose weight? why specify that on skin color?

not that i care much since racism doesn't exist anyways.... no one hates a race at itself.... well the term racism is just so incorrect and drags an entire race into it discrimination is a better term i guess O.O

Ra1ugaJul 7, 20171 votes

From what it seems, you aren't jungling and getting autofilled in ranked, you're getting autofilled in normals draft.

If the laner chooses to not leash me, I do one of two things

suck it up, and risk ganking later because of how behind someone can get
Go to their lane, "gank" their lane, and tax 100 gold worth of minions :D (though that is a bit asshole and toxic, i usually refrain from doing this)

StarGuardianWeebJul 7, 20171 votes

So my choices are suffer in a game where I was already forced into a role I hate, or troll? And here I was stupidly asking riot for a solution other than these lol oops.

And no, happens in ranked too. I played 4 total ranked games and in 2 of them i was refused a leash when autofilled as jungle. Shockingly people are assholes in every queue. Go figure. Its whatever I give up everyones right i guess i just get good at a role that utterly disgusts me and changes every damn year.

Ra1ugaJul 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So my choices are suffer in a game where I was already forced into a role I hate, or troll? And here I was stupidly asking riot for a solution other than these lol oops.

And no, happens in ranked too. I played 4 total ranked games and in 2 of them i was refused a leash when autofilled as jungle. Shockingly people are assholes in every queue. Go figure. Its whatever I give up everyones right i guess i just get good at a role that utterly disgusts me and changes every damn year.

No. Not troll. I said "gank".

This means apply some pressure and damage. It is normal for junglers to take cs from lanes, especially with champions like Master Yi.

You could also duo with a player who will willingly play jungle. I know how it feels to be placed in a role you cant/hate to play (for me it's support)

And once you get autofilled, you get autofill protection for a few games. If you get autofilled jungle, you won't have to play jungle again for a few games. Also, playing support grants you autofill protection. Play a support game each time your autofill protection wears off to limit the chances of you being autofilled jungle.