Understand your jungler before you point fingers

DoFr··33 votes·2,673 views

now before i start, know that this is something that will help you in the long run, and actually benefit you EVERY single game.

however i noticed ALOT of players i play with, never understood what i'm doing, or why am i playing x champion in jungle, and they keep complaining about them making mistakes, and me not fixing it for them.

now there's alot of junglers, but in this post i'll cover AD, devourer, and Tank junglers.

let's start with AD junglers. now when you have a jungler say like, wukong, or Pantheon, understand that your jungler's aim is to gank lanes, to help you do the snowballing, to kill your lane opponent, because they bring damage, and they need Warrior, for the AD and Armor pent, to do even more damage during Ganks, and those are the junglers you should ping for help when you're having troubles.

  • they have a good ganks pre6
  • they have a medium jungle control
  • Great at Counter jungling
  • they have to build tanky after an item or two
  • they're Casters, and relay on spells
  • mediocre Dueling
  • they Fall off lategame
  • they can't carry by themselfs

and now for the AS Junglers (Devourer) you'll see Xin zhao, Master Yi, buying this item these kind of junglers, need to stack up their devourer, they NEED to buy devourer and stack it up as Fast as possible, when you have a Devourer jungler, understand this, DO NOT, try to bite something more than you can chew, they can't tolerate wasting time. when you have this jungler, play average, be passive, focus on farming, they will most likely hit the sated around 18-20 minutes mark. this is where they can gank, and deliver insane damage, and it's totally worth the waiting, unlike Warrior junglers, they don't fall off as fast, but they keep becoming stronger, and potentially carrying the game.

  • mediocre ganks pre6
  • they have a Massive jungle control
  • Great at Counter jungling
  • can build full Damage or Tanky halfway
  • they're heavily focused on AA to do damage
  • Great at Dueling
  • they get stronger as the game progress
  • they have the potential of Carrying a Game

Tank junglers, think, Volibear, Sejuani, Gragas, they're a good example of Tanky junglers, now what you need to understand is, with tank junglers you'll play "Carry me, to carry you" game. Basically, they're weak early, everybody wants to kill Tank junglers at their either red or blue buff, everybody want to steal something from them, and they need your help to keep an eye out for when they ping you, just make sure to take it easy the first 5 minutes, and then you won't have to worry as much about them. Tank junglers LOVE to gank, they Farm Assists, it's what make them strong, they WANT you to ping them to help, they WANT you to set up a Gank, they love nothing more than to help you win, they will help you win laning phase, but you gotta help them win the teamfights, the damage of tank junglers Falls really hard, and is outclassed by every other jungler kind, but they make it up with the ability to give you the edge on your lane. HOWEVER don't expect much from a tank jungler, when the level difference is greater than 2, chances are, your jungler is lower than the enemy and you might end up giving them a double.

  • Great Ganks pre6
  • Weak jungle control
  • weak at Counter jungling
  • Have to build full Tank
  • Laners are their source of Damage
  • Weak at Dueling
  • they have a mediocre scaling into lategame
  • they cannot by no means carry

there's alot of tips and information about this and that, if this gets upvoted i might make another thread to cover more necessary to know things about jungle, that laners would be interested to know.

and always remember ward if you're ahead, and never say EZ after you win.

42 Comments

Fadedpf20 votes

WHAT THE FUCK BRO, THIS GUY IS SUPER PUSHED AND IS A MASSIVE BULLY. WHY NO GANKS. Level 3 Warwick. Warwick You serious bro...

ArtemisWinter2 votes

Actually a lvl 3 WW is able to gank a lane effectively if the team has CC, it is called "applying pressure" which allows the lane to know that you are around and will intervene if you guys do something stupid.

Fadedpf6 votes

As a Warwick player yes you can gank pre 6 but it is not practical at all. Top lane is the easiest of all but you need a lot a gank assistance and apply the red buff. They usually flash out too which calls for a flash Q to kill. But not practical at all, Warwick is a level 6 ganker and is very bad without ult as the game goes on.

Gregor Gysi1 votes

Why is he getting downvoted? Do you guys really think a WW/Yi should never show up on a lane pre6? Actually the example ThatAtheist (weird name btw) used shows that Warwick could actually do something. His early dueling in general is okay so why wouldn't he punish a lane bully eg Darius? Or if the Darius is on his team he could ward it at ~min3.10 and check if there is the enemy jungle. 'Applying pressure' is actually extremely useful, applying pressure doesn't always have to result in a kill.

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

No idea why they downvote you, you are entirely correct. I have over 200 ranked games on WW in Season 4 and 5 (Gold and Platinum) and it helps alot ot atleast show up...even if you don't have a high chance of killing the lane you can always atleast try to burn a summoner or maybe just mana or make him/her miss some creeps. All of that helps, and with red buff you can easily get a kill if the laner overextends.

gaby1best1 votes

Well, if the lane is very pushed and WW's ally is above 80% and has some sort of hard cc, then the gank will work.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

"Wtf useless jungler get up here wareick is camping me and im gonna lose" At which point the other 4 press tab and see that ww is level 3 and die laughing

Jaygo418 votes

LOL Xin Zhao, mediocre ganks

Xin Zhao is literally really strong at ALL points in the game

DoFr2 votes

he's an exception, though i still wanted to mention him in that category because he can do his job without using the ultimate

Jaygo411 votes

{quoted}

he's an exception, though i still wanted to mention him in that category because he can do his job without using the ultimate

ill agree i just think he stands out as like the only guy who can build devourer and scale, but provide gnarly ganks early.... a clear contradiction in power budget

I GANK LANES1 votes

i always ban this mofo, idk why more people don't. super strong duelist and strong engage/teamfighting

EchoZeero6 votes

A LOT of players blame the jungle and don't understand even the basic concept of it. I also feel like a lot of player don't even have basic knowledge of things you should or shouldn't do. Not feeding is better than not getting kills.

Lane gets killed repetitively because they overextend and gets ganked by the enemy jungler. "Why you never come to gank shit jungle!" Because you are under the enemy's tower and I don't tower dive. You're playing too aggressive, ward, farm mid lane or under tower and stop feeding.

Lane gives a kill to their lane opponent, then keeps trying to kill their lane opponent resulting in multiple deaths and lots of frustration. "Shit jungle you never help!" Your lane opponent has better itemization than you and has the advantage, play safe and stop trying to duel him, you will lose.

Lane chases their low health opponent repetitively to try and get a kill and gets caught by another champion, resulting in their death. "FFS jungle you're never there to help me!" Stop trying to make big plays and getting kills. You're getting baited and you're not learning form your mistakes.

dEAdbUs1 votes

{quoted}

A LOT of players blame the jungle and don't understand even the basic concept of it. I also feel like a lot of player don't even have basic knowledge of things you should or shouldn't do. Not feeding is better than not getting kills.

Oh cmon, my junglers never gank me when I'm against Darius. I think it's junglers do not understand basic concepts.

Lane gets killed repetitively because they overextend and gets ganked by the enemy jungler. "Why you never come to gank shit jungle!" Because you are under the enemy's tower and I don't tower dive. You're playing too aggressive, ward, farm mid lane or under tower and stop feeding.

Why then you didnt countergank/counterjungle/babysit other lanes/take towers/drakes then? I know if I'm on toplane and enemy team has Xin - he will gank me on lev 2 with red buff. But I've never seen that my jungler will be there to countergank him. Sure it's all lanes fault, not lazy junglers who dont know matchups.

Lane gives a kill to their lane opponent, then keeps trying to kill their lane opponent resulting in multiple deaths and lots of frustration. "Shit jungle you never help!" Your lane opponent has better itemization than you and has the advantage, play safe and stop trying to duel him, you will lose.

Sometimes it's just an outplay and enemy is running away with 10 hp. If only jungler was here...

Lane chases their low health opponent repetitively to try and get a kill and gets caught by another champion, resulting in their death. "FFS jungle you're never there to help me!" Stop trying to make big plays and getting kills. You're getting baited and you're not learning form your mistakes.

Then what jungler is doing all this time? It's jungler's job to predict moves and see possibilites.

shadecrapper4 votes

I enjoy it when I make 1 mistake and get flamed, but then watch the laners feed feed pheed fead fyd fiiiiiiieeeeeed. I LOVE IT

Spacesuit Spiff2 votes

Classic norms logic there... nevermind that the botlane singlehandedly turned 12/3 into 20/55, the flame war coming at you if you get dragon stolen by the 30 kill leblanc, or the nunu that your alistar just had no interest headbutting away

dEAdbUs1 votes

Not enough information. What you were doing do when your botlane had problems? What you were doing when midlane had problems? What you were doing if 2 lanes in your team insanely lost and you cant smite drake?

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

Bot steamrolled, took their turret, and spent the next 15 minutes dying over and over in every part of the enemy jungle for no real reason. Which is fine, people do that in norms, and i dont find norms too valuable outside of lane after the first couple games on a champ. But when the adc walks face first into 3 people over and over its ridiculous for him to blame the team for it, and when these antics get the enemy leblanc fed enough to WQR dragon for more damage than smite, itd ridiculous to blame the entire game on the jungler.

Ive got no problem with that stuff happening in norms, it doesnt stop me from learning my champ, but the people who singlehandedly lose the game and then rage at the few things they can understand are cringeworthy.

(And to the original point, people who dont understand high-level smiting and still tell a jungler with no burst to uninstall when nunu/cho steal it with 1k true damage + smite are equally ridiculous)

dEAdbUs1 votes

that happens with every position in game, dont think that junglers are special.

SEKAI4 votes

Understand your jungler before you point fingers

Lemme share a proverb I heard from when I was a little,

"Every time you used a hand to point a finger at someone, your other 4 fingers would be pointing at you"

I think it's suitable to be used here.

Transgressor1 votes

Also irrelevant. Your fingers have nothing to do with 5 strangers trying to cooperate with eachother to acomplish a common objective in a videogame, while fighting 5 other players trying to do the same thing.

IcyPepper2 votes

I think you missed the entire point of a proverb and took it a little too literally.

Linna Excel3 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptDgSL-oMnI

If you are a good jungler and are first pick, you kind of have to hope your team follows along or have to pick someone who's pretty bland. If you are last pick, you might hate your pick because you might need to fill gaps in your team.

For team mates you have to know that if I'm picking someone who needs to farm or wait until the late game, you can't expect an early gank. If I have to pick someone with no CC, don't expect great ganks. If I'm picking a carry jungler because you all are not damage dealers, don't expect me to be the tank.

DoFr2 votes

this is exactly what i'm saying, people do not follow up after my pick, and they don't understand what do i scale to, or what is my Role

people don't pick based on what is the play style of your opponent, they think you would frequently gank for them, and whine when you don't despite having a champion that needs to farm.

for example, the mid laner is crying because your warwick which is level 4, doesn't want to gank.

chances are you'll waste your time, time valuable to you, because you need that level 6 ASAP to be able to gank like a Monster, and they play carelessly without warding and expect you to pay their mistake with Your time.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Wot about my Garen jgl?

Decrit2 votes

IMHO, there are point where i disagree with the benefit of "not everything is absolute and reflects totally every champion"

  • Warrior junglers are, i agree, usually junglers able to dish damage mostly thanks to spells ( in fact are most of times casters, like some kind of assassins ) but is too much say they need defences, or that they will fall off lategame ( even if the stats given by warrior are mostly early-game stats, i agree ) or, most of all, that they can' t carry by themselves. If you manage to abuse your power spike to get the game on the winning side, you carried. Also beware that counter-jungling usually involves dueling, except rare cases, and warrior users can and cannot be good at counterjungling and dueling for separate reasons and must be specified case by case, but i agree that either being good or bad is a common characteristic of them.

  • Devourer is not true that you have to farm safely if you have a Devourer because it will never gank, unless fringe cases like Warwick. Good devourer players gank like madmans and focus on objective control because that is the most effective way to stack sated. While playing with a devourer the only thing you have to keep in mind for lane safety is the overall procedure of the game, like with any other kind of jungler. I agree that the devourer player has no time to sacrifice, but that does not mean it has not to gank, or that every gank must be a kill: pressure is pressure. Besides, you rarely see a Devourer while your team is feeding - either you are in neutral or good advantage, or you have a jungler that works well only with devourer. The thing that a player must keep in mind with them, in any case, is jungle control ( scuttles and dragon most importantly) since it allows them to get sated faster. And a Devourer user that properly builds and stacks to Sated then can "Carry" as you say, because it means it played properly and gained a net advantage to its team.

  • Juggernauts... i dunno why you said they have to be all defensive or to scale badly lategame. It is true that gankwise are not very damaging, but they compensate that with ccs that in the right places an dlines can be more than enough to get assists. They have a safe early game, not strong but their tankiness makes some cases of ganks less risky ( plus you have an engager ready for mid/lategame) and is a good fallback item for devourer users that think they do not manage to get Sated fast enough and need power early ( like Xin ). I agree that about jungle control, clear, duel and countergank are ( usually) not excellent and with many assists they get up better, however.

This said i am a scrub silver 1 dude so i am no one to talk professionally, but if i believe i said some sensful stuff here.

arcinex2 votes

Building devourer is not an excuse to neglect your lanes.

xXM110Xx1 votes

I like it thank for share you knowledge

DoFr1 votes

no, thank _You _ for taking the time and read it

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

This should go into the Tips and Tricks thread imo. This is something learning players should know.

DoFr1 votes

well it is true that this looks like a part of tips and tricks, this is directed towards people who already play the game and have an understanding of it, consider it a higher level of knowledge, but i'm defending junglers, like me and everyone outthere who just didn't have his/her voice heard, and got reported because their teammates think your sole purpose in the game is help them win their lanes.

that and i'm 100% sure that what i said has a 100% impact on each players' gameplay.

i choose my words carefully persian...perhaps you should've done the same THIS. IS. JUNGLE!

dEAdbUs1 votes

What? This post dosn't teach players anything, its just another post about another sad jungler who doesn't want to gank, but playing SUPPOTIVE role.

BluePolarizer1 votes

tank junglers by no means fall off late game. They are late game peel and engage, however. They help the real carries (ADCs). In general devourer champs cannot outcarry an ADC in a teamfight so they do fall off. As someone who has played 500+ games of Master Yi over 2 seasons, I'm just gonna say it right here: Yi is strongest in mid game when everyone has around 5000 gold, since his 5000 gold is the strongest 5000 gold possible. However, when everyone is 6 slotted, Yi isn't all that since the tinest mistake can get you CCed and killed in less than 1 second.

ganker junglers, with the exception of Rengar and Wukong, fall off super hard in all aspects since they offer mediocre engage and peel. Pantheon is the one that falls off hardest but Eve, Elise and Lee Sin also fall off pretty hard. Rengar and Wukong on the other hand offer either the best single target assassination in the game or the 3rd best engage in the game plus decent sustained damage.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

mediocre Dueling they Fall off lategame they can't carry by themselfs

Vi JarvanIV MonkeyKing Udyr

Wheatloaf1 votes

I just get a tiny bit sad when my jungle Rek'Sai/Shyvana doesn't even offer mid lane blue buff... just a tiny bit sad. Otherwise, keep doing your job, junglers! c:

The Great Divide1 votes

Thank you for this. I just had an Ezreal mid last game yell at me, Kayle Jungle, for not warding well (he never bought wards himself) and not helping him in his lane. This was at the 12 minute mark after he died to the enemy Morgana 5 times. So on top of Morgana being too fed, I also needed to clear my camps as fast as I could. Kayle ganks aren't that impressive early, so it's nice to see this explanation to drive that point home. Good work

KajedAnimal1 votes

Now I would agree with you on the tank junglers with a few exceptions. Amumu can carry games if he builds appropriately. It does require the lanes to know what they are doing and get feed so the jungler doesnt need to worry about the lanes as much. And yes I do play AP amumu, no one expects an ap amumu.

chide da jungler1 votes

In solo que, people just think about what would help them this exact second in the game with no longterm thinking.

Losing lane? If there were a eve or pantheon jungling for them, maybe they wouldn't be. Got a good gank off and donated kill to laner? It'd also be best for them if you took no exp/gold tax so you can stay level 4 forever. They have a lead on their opponent? Time to proxy farm and NEVER put down the 250g to completely ward the enemy jungle for the rest of the game. After all, you could of just gone jg nunu and bought a sightstone as your first item.

Perfect example is jg WW. You can ask your team to just farm to 6 and wait for sweet ww ganks, but they always HAVE to go hard and duel as much as possible because YOLO. Of course, you are to blame for being such a 'weak-ass jungler'

RogueWill1 votes

DUDE HELP! i CAN'T DUEL Leblanc ANYMORE! (3/0 AT MIN 7). GANK HER! So....you want me to give her a double? Rammus

dEAdbUs1 votes

LB is countered hard by resists, while Rammus W gives him tons of resists.

GankLord1 votes

I have to YAAAASSS GURL! All of this but you forgot one important crucial thing that applies to people understanding any jungler. No matter how OP, fed or tanky a jungler is they are not invincible unless riot decides to make Kayle's ultimate a permanent buff when it's placed on you. Ward your lane I cannot tell you how many times a gank has been messed up because the other jungler was waiting in the unwarded brush to counter gank and if your jungler is a devourer jungler this goes double because they won't have to worry so much about you feeding in your lane because your getting ganked and have to keep leaving their farm to pull you out of the fire you could have avoided.

dEAdbUs1 votes

Understand what team needs and what enemies picked (what if enemies counterpicked your teammates and gonna snowball hard while you want to pick AFK farming jungler) before pick jungler.

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