At least it would give some counterplay to react to that bullshit of a champ. He got Regen, tenacity, extra resistance stats, damage reduction, true damage, CC breaker, armor shred. So why the fu** should he keep his silence?
Jamaree9 votes[{quoted}](name=She Was A Virgin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-09-16T14:29:02.569+0000)
At least it would give some counterplay to react to that bullshit of a champ.
The counterplay is not letting him touch you in the first place. Kiting > All of Garen's entire kit. He gets to do so much when he gets into melee range, because he is pure melee.
He got Regen, tenacity, extra resistance stats, damage reduction, true damage, CC breaker, armor shred. So why the fu** should he keep his silence?
You know, when you just name out a champion's kit, they all sound broken right?
Terozu3 votesLets try it :D
Kats got, hyper mobility, resets, aoe, burst, single target, blinks, dot.
Ashe got, perma slow, long range, scaling crit damage, longest stun in game, global ult, global vision, screen wide poke.
Jamaree4 votesLets try it :D
Kats got, hyper mobility, resets, aoe, burst, single target, blinks, dot.
Ashe got, perma slow, long range, scaling crit damage, longest stun in game, global ult, global vision, screen wide poke.
Here, I got a better one.
Low cool down dash that can go over walls, seriously, you can get it down to two seconds
Free passive healing
Free crit strike on an ability
One of the longest static ADC ranges, seriously, the only champion that can outrange this one's AAs is Kog'Maw, and that is with an ability
And an AoE prevent death mechanic, who thought making a Kayle ulti AoE and instant was a good idea?
Oh wait, this is Kindred.
Beatrice falls2 votesHere, I got a better one.
Low cool down dash that can go over walls, seriously, you can get it down to two seconds
Free passive healing
Free crit strike on an ability
One of the longest static ADC ranges, seriously, the only champion that can outrange this one's AAs is Kog'Maw, and that is with an ability
And an AoE prevent death mechanic, who thought making a Kayle ulti AoE and instant was a good idea?
Oh wait, this is Kindred.
Let me try too
A passive that gives him a shield whenever he hits something with his skills A W that heals him whenever he triggers it, but if he uses it, it's an AoE DoT that both affect an ally and himself His R can steal an enemy champion from the enemy team His Q is 3 empowered AA with crazy damage His E is an AoE spammable ability that triggers his shield up to 100%
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-16T15:39:25.075+0000)
Let me try too
A passive that gives him a shield whenever he hits something with his skills A W that heals him whenever he triggers it, but if he uses it, it's an AoE DoT that both affect an ally and himself His R can steal an enemy champion from the enemy team His Q is 3 empowered AA with crazy damage His E is an AoE spammable ability that triggers his shield up to 100%
That is Mordekaiser...and this makes me sad, because he was my main for so long, but he is...so...fucking...terrible.
Hi lm Zoe1 votesYou know, when you just name out a champion's kit, they all sound broken right?
Let me try, E can hit you over walls.....
OurLestrade2 votesWhat could an alternative be?
Beatrice falls3 votesWhat could an alternative be?
A KNOCK UP
OurLestrade1 votes[{quoted}](name=Beatrice falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-09-16T14:37:56.222+0000)
A KNOCK UP
THE MAD MAN
SoundChaosDebug1 votesA gap closer
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesWould a root be an option? We already have a root on AA, with Naut's passive.
Or it could just be a grounding effect, maybe.
Jamaree2 votesWould a root be an option? We already have a root on AA, with Naut's passive.
Or it could just be a grounding effect, maybe.
Honestly, a slow would be fine, it serves the same function in his kit for the most part.
Votable Jester1 votesExcept against all the mobile champions who were already strong against him due to their ability to kite him.
Silence makes more sense, he doesn't need a slow generally to stay on them once he's on them.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=0000000300000000,timestamp=2018-09-16T17:49:33.024+0000)
Except against all the mobile champions who were already strong against him due to their ability to kite him.
Silence makes more sense, he doesn't need a slow generally to stay on them once he's on them.
True, but those mobile champions are going to be beating Garen anyway because he just gets kited. It depends on the situation, against mages, silence is better, against say ADCs, the slow is better.
Votable Jester1 votesThat's my point though. If Garen hits a mobile champion with bush tactics, he stands a decent chance of killing them with his silence. If it was a slow, he'd pretty much be unable to threaten mobile champions at all.
Even against adcs, a silence is generally better. If he's already in melee range, they're going to need a spell to get away. For instance, would you rather silence or slow the Vayne? The only exception to this is Kalista.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-17T19:10:02.507+0000)
That's my point though. If Garen hits a mobile champion with bush tactics, he stands a decent chance of killing them with his silence. If it was a slow, he'd pretty much be unable to threaten mobile champions at all.
Even against adcs, a silence is generally better. If he's already in melee range, they're going to need a spell to get away. For instance, would you rather silence or slow the Vayne? The only exception to this is Kalista.
Depends on if she has her ulti up or not, if it is, silence, if not, slow.
Votable Jester1 votesDo you expect a silenced Vayne to outrun Garen when he still likely has some speed left from his Q?
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=00000003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-17T20:00:31.018+0000)
Do you expect a silenced Vayne to outrun Garen when he still likely has some speed left from his Q?
Silenced, no, at the point she is silenced, she already fucked up.
Votable Jester1 votesYeah, so how would having it apply a slow instead of silence be at all better for the Garen?
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=0000000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-18T02:43:00.143+0000)
Yeah, so how would having it apply a slow instead of silence be at all better for the Garen?
Have not once in any of my post said it was better, I said it was an alternative.
Votable Jester1 votesMy mistake, you said it would serve the same function, but that still isn't true. It doesn't keep people from escaping him as well as the silence does.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=000000030000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-18T03:42:03.974+0000)
My mistake, you said it would serve the same function, but that still isn't true. It doesn't keep people from escaping him as well as the silence does.
I think it depends on the situation and champion, though you are right, for the most part, the silence is better and the slow would only be better in terms of stopping people from escaping and even then, not all the time.
Votable Jester1 votesNot to beat a dead horse (sorry if I've been rude), but the silence also has the advantage of preventing them from healing/shielding themselves in addition to preventing mobility and cc. There is a reason slows are considered the weakest cc (a slow has to have very large numbers to be strong).
Again, I apologize if I've been rude/aggressive at all.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=00000003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-09-18T03:55:09.018+0000)
Not to beat a dead horse (sorry if I've been rude), but the silence also has the advantage of preventing them from healing/shielding themselves in addition to preventing mobility and cc. There is a reason slows are considered the weakest cc (a slow has to have very large numbers to be strong).
Again, I apologize if I've been rude/aggressive at all.
Nah, not coming off as rude at all, you are also quite right about everything. I just want people to stop bitching about Garen tbh. First time in 9 years he isn't seen as a shit niche pick and people want him nerf because they don't want to learn how to play around him.
Votable Jester1 votesNah, not coming off as rude at all, you are also quite right about everything. I just want people to stop bitching about Garen tbh. First time in 9 years he isn't seen as a shit niche pick and people want him nerf because they don't want to learn how to play around him.
Haha I think a lot of people just assume that he should be bad. Thus if they see him do something well (even if another champ could do it as well or better) they think something is wrong.
Even I'm susceptible to that. I got annoyed when a Garen used Predator to dive me under turret mid (coming from behind) and 100-0ed me, even though a Hecarim could have done the same thing with ease.
Thanks for helping me notice my bias with that (even if you didn't mean to haha). Though I'll still get annoyed because I'm quite annoyed when a Hecarim does that too. Either way I don't generally call the champ op even though one of my friends calls an enemy champ op almost every game haha.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=00000003000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2018-09-18T04:39:14.035+0000)
Haha I think a lot of people just assume that he should be bad. Thus if they see him do something well (even if another champ could do it as well or better) they think something is wrong.
Even I'm susceptible to that. I got annoyed when a Garen used Predator to dive me under turret mid (coming from behind) and 100-0ed me, even though a Hecarim could have done the same thing with ease.
Thanks for helping me notice my bias with that (even if you didn't mean to haha). Though I'll still get annoyed because I'm quite annoyed when a Hecarim does that too. Either way I don't generally call the champ op even though one of my friends calls an enemy champ op almost every game haha.
We all have champions we don't like, I hate Riven and Ezreal.
Critmaster Garen2 votesHonestly, a slow would be fine, it serves the same function in his kit for the most part.
youre kidding, right?
in a game where like 50%+ of the champion pool have some kind of mobility tool build into their kit, it would completely trash him.
how is he ever going to be able to fight champions like lucian, quinn, teemo, vayne, caitlyn etc. when he cant even get half a spin off after they already fucked up and he made it into melee range?
and those are just the ranged champions.
ekko, riven, fiora, zed, talon, renekton even aatrox or even fucking itelia.
he wouldnt be able to fight 90% of the champion pool in this game. youd have to quadrupel his spin damage, just so he gets some damage off after making it past initial enemy kiting.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=0000000300000001,timestamp=2018-09-17T19:25:10.130+0000)
youre kidding, right?
in a game where like 50%+ of the champion pool have some kind of mobility tool build into their kit, it would completely trash him.
how is he ever going to be able to fight champions like lucian, quinn, teemo, vayne, caitlyn etc. when he cant even get half a spin off after they already fucked up and he made it into melee range?
and those are just the ranged champions.
ekko, riven, fiora, zed, talon, renekton even aatrox or even fucking itelia.
he wouldnt be able to fight 90% of the champion pool in this game. youd have to quadrupel his spin damage, just so he gets some damage off after making it past initial enemy kiting.
Like I said in a later post, it depends on the match up, against champions like the ones you mentioned, the advent of a slow instead of a silence would be outright worst, other cases better, also depends on the slow, let's says it was like a 99% slow or something massive like that.
Critmaster Garen2 votesLike I said in a later post, it depends on the match up, against champions like the ones you mentioned, the advent of a slow instead of a silence would be outright worst, other cases better, also depends on the slow, let's says it was like a 99% slow or something massive like that.
a 99% slow doesnt do shit to keep people in range.
because slows dont stop dashes. it would completely trash most of his top lane matchups. not to mention how useless it would make him against a majority of the rest of the champion pool.
Jamaree1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XbGfX0NX,comment-id=000000030000000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-17T19:40:49.448+0000)
a 99% slow doesnt do shit to keep people in range.
because slows dont stop dashes. it would completely trash most of his top lane matchups. not to mention how useless it would make him against a majority of the rest of the champion pool.
Against dashes, it won't of course, against champions without them, it would be like a snare practically, imagine Threst ulti level slows on a point and click shit would be scary, that said, I don't think it should change either way, just giving suggestions on what it could be.
Critmaster Garen2 votesAgainst dashes, it won't of course, against champions without them, it would be like a snare practically
yes, against the two or three champions in this game without range, or dashes, he would still be viable.
NemeBro1 votesAgainst dashes, it won't of course, against champions without them, it would be like a snare practically, imagine Threst ulti level slows on a point and click shit would be scary, that said, I don't think it should change either way, just giving suggestions on what it could be.
Name some champions in lane that Garen would prefer a 99% slow against rather than his silence.
Critmaster Garen2 votesName some champions in lane that Garen would prefer a 99% slow against rather than his silence.
there is literally no matchup where garen wants his silence replaced with a slow.
if you want a slow on your q, you can just pick glacial augment. i use it against kayle matchups and so far it worked pretty well.
Deathhawk8881 votesHis Silence is thematic with his kit, I mean his armor and sword are made with Petricite. So it makes sense that he has a silence.
Gabresol1 votesGaren would not be able to do anything against too many champions without the silence. If Garne is not able to do damage to champions like Zed or LB, he is practicly useless
SugeMinPikk1 votesListing a kit doesn't make it OP
Inkling Commando1 votesGaren is more op than Graves.
